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I can understand Autodesk not wanting to bother with Mac development any more. Apple's aggressive and inconsiderate moves make it a pain to even maintain exist

I can understand Autodesk not wanting to bother with Mac development any more. Apple's aggressive and inconsiderate moves make it a pain to even maintain existing app projects on the Mac.

acomjean 8y ago
Plus the lack of a pro level desktop machine (excepting the imac pro. all-in-one) isn't helping apple with power users that Autodesk users presumably are. They announced new ones are coming a year ago but still no details or a real release date. Its a shame as the macos application packaging system makes makes for an easy way distribute and run applications.
- MisterOctober 8y ago
  Yep -- this kind of touches on some of the issues in the recent thread on the Mac Mini -- Apple's hardware offerings have been diminishing in utility for pro / power users for some time now -- it's like they're intentionally abandoning the pro market. Not surprising that Autodesk is discontinuing support.
- syshum 8y ago
  Apple prefers to tell you a $1,000 device every 12-18 months as opposed to a $2000 device every 3-5years... Plus they make a ton more money on Apps on from the store in mobile. It is all economics, they do not care about the pro user anymore because the pro user is not where they make money
  - scarface74 8y ago
    If that were true, they wouldn’t still be supporting the iPhone 5s that was introduced in 2012 with iOS 12 - which will be introduced this year. How many Android phones even get two years worth of updates let alone 6.
    - syshum 8y ago
      Incorrect, long term support is actually required because of the insane prices they want to charge and market saturation. Like with cars, the used market supports the selling of new devices. This is something Android manufacturers need to figure out.
      - scarface74 8y ago
        If long term support were “required” then why don’t the high end Android phones that cost just as much as iPhones get the same number of updates? But either way, that Apple updates phones for years contradicts the statement that Apple wants you to replace your phone every two years.
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  > Plus the lack of a pro level desktop machine (excepting the imac pro. all-in-one) The lack of a pro-level machine... except for the pro-level machine that they do have.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    They also admitted at a round table that they designed themselves into a “thermal corner” with the last Mac Pro and that they will be introducing another one in 2019.
    - ksec 8y ago
      They "learned" / "understand" / "realise" that they went into a thermal corner "FOUR" years after the product was first released. Then they made announcement they are going to do a redesign, 4 years after it first released, and the redesign won't be coming out til 2019, 2 years after they made the redesign announcement. A total of 6 years. That is the amount of care they have for "pro" users. They then went to release an iMac Pro which many call it an interim solution. An iMac Pro capable of having two 250W chip cooled, Something the community has been calling for years for the iMac ( For so long everyone abandoned the hope already ) and some said was not possible due to cooling requirement. Turns out it wasn't a technical barrier, simply Apple won't make it. And as rumours goes, it wasn't until a very large studio decide to abandoned the Mac platform due to Mac Pro, and someone who had connection with Apple SVPs and told hem about it, before they realise how much care they have given to the pro users. Apple forgot that while it was Steve jobs bumping put new strategies and initiative that changed Apple in the long run. It was these pro users whom bleed six colours that kept Apple alive in the first place.
      - scarface74 8y ago
        People have been calling for an iMac Pro type hardware “for years”? I doubt very seriously that anyone even wanted something like the iMac Pro before it was released. And as rumours goes, it wasn't until a very large studio decide to abandoned the Mac platform due to Mac Pro, and someone who had connection with Apple SVPs and told hem about it, before they realise how much care they have given to the pro users. I doubt very seriously that one studio abandoning a product line that makes less than 10% of thier revenue made Apple panic. Apple forgot that while it was Steve jobs bumping put new strategies and initiative that changed Apple in the long run. It was these pro users whom bleed six colours that kept Apple alive in the first place. Things change. The Mac is no longer at the center of Apple’s universe. As far as what Steve thought that Apple’s direction of the Mac should be.... “If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all it’s worth – and get busy on the next great thing. The PC wars are over. Done. Microsoft won a long time ago” https://www.wired.com/2011/08/money-quotes-steve-jobs-style/ https://www.wired.com/2011/08/money-quotes-steve-jobs-style/ If you think Jobs was tied to the Mac on his return, you weren’t paying attention.
api 8y ago
Apple doesn't seem to care about that market. The iPhone ate the company, and its plans for the Mac seem unclear. This just helps cement Microsoft's relative monopoly on the business pro market outside software development.
- scarface74 8y ago
  If by “unclear” you mean. - releasing new OS versions every year - announcing publicly they are working on a new Mac Pro. - announcing publicly that they are merging iOS and MacOS frameworks over the next year or two to make cross platform development easier. - developing new custom chipsets for the Mac (the Tx line of chips)
  - rleigh 8y ago
    The annual releases are mostly cosmetic and typically only change higher-level details. They haven't made much in the way of substantive changes to the base system since 10.6. At the lower level, it's looking like abandonware. Apple is notoriously secretive. The "public announcement" of the new Mac Pro was a whole lot of nothing. Not one substantive detail. Am I supposed to wait until its 2019 release before making any commitment to support it? It might be terrible, and there's no information about its specifications. "Waiting in hope" is no good for business and product planning. The hype train might work for phones, but for computer hardware it's a bit pathetic, and leaves me doubting they have a serious plan for it (as if the existing Mac Pro left us in any doubt at all). The merging of frameworks isn't of the slightest interest if you only develop for MacOS. And the new chipsets aren't particularly noteworthy either; they are just details. As a cross-platform software developer, I really couldn't care less. But I do care about their support for industry-standard APIs.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      The annual releases are mostly cosmetic and typically only change higher-level details. They haven't made much in the way of substantive changes to the base system since 10.6. At the lower level, it's looking like abandonware. How much has Windows and Linux changed during that time? I’m not going to read off the change log of everything that Apple has changed since 10.6 Apple is notoriously secretive. The "public announcement" of the new Mac Pro was a whole lot of nothing. Not one substantive detail. Am I supposed to wait until its 2019 release before making any commitment to support it? So exactly what do you have to do to support the Mac Pro specifically? Of course they didn’t have any details. They hadn’t started on it st the time. But it still contradicts the narrative that where Apple is headed with the Mac is “unclear”. It might be terrible, and there's no information about its specifications. "Waiting in hope" is no good for business and product planning. I can give you hint. It’s going to be a multi core Intel chip. What are you thinking you need to do to support the Mac Pro specifically. The hype train might work for phones, but for computer hardware it's a bit pathetic, and leaves me doubting they have a serious plan for it (as if the existing Mac Pro left us in any doubt at all). Seeing they admitted they made a huge mistake with the current Mac Pro. The merging of frameworks isn't of the slightest interest if you only develop for MacOS. So the direction of the Mac APIs is of no interest to a Mac developer as is the fact that they are moving away from AppKit? Whether the fact they are merging the frameworks of IOS and MacOS are of interest to one random person on HN doesn’t mean their direction “isn’t clear”. The direction they are moving MacOS - the APIs is clear. that they are And the new chipsets aren't particularly noteworthy either; they are just details. So first it’s not clear and now “just the details” don’t matter. As a cross-platform software developer, I really couldn't care less. But I do care about their support for industry-standard APIs. So you’re a “cross platform developer” and you’re overly concerned about the Mac Pro - a tiny sliver of a tiny sliver of the market. But you just said that you didn’t care about the merging of iOS and MacOS as a “Mac only developer”. A “cross platform developer” has much bigger issues than the graphic APIs unless you plan to do something like Electron and anyone should avoid those apps anyway.
reaperducer 8y ago
It just feels like 15 years from now we're going to be reading articles in the WSJ and NYT headlined "How Tim Cook Pleased The Shareholders While He Destroyed Apple." With all the political influence, brand awareness, and metric assloads of cash Apple has, it should be the best company in the world. But every day brings more headlines that make it seem like Apple's best days are behind it. It keeps stumbling -- publicly and unnecessarily. I'm not going to jump on the "Apple was better under/because of Steve Jobs" bandwagon. But this race is Apple's to lose. And the number of small cracks appearing everywhere is becoming disturbing.
- scarface74 8y ago
  It just feels like 15 years from now we're going to be reading articles in the WSJ and NYT headlined "How Tim Cook Pleased The Shareholders While He Destroyed Apple." My next computer will be a Mac - at the looks of things now, probably an iMac - but if Apple loses the high end Mac market, does it really matter? Around 10% of Apples revenue comes from Macs and even less from high end Macs. If Apple becomes an iOS company and makes the iPad more computer like, it would be a win.
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    if Apple loses the high end Mac market, does it really matter? Yes. Because there is far more to life than market share and revenue. Especially at Apple, where the last two people in charge (Cook and Jobs) have both stated in public that they're committed to making better products, and that money is secondary.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      For a company, there is nothing more important than revenue (well net income to be more precise.) Believing any company cares about anything else is naive.
      - reaperducer 8y ago
        Believing any company cares about anything else is naive. It's very sad that your experience is so limited. There are plenty of companies that actually care about things other than profit. I had the pleasure of working for one once, and through that was introduced to others.
optimuspaul 8y ago
cold you elaborate on "aggressive and inconsiderate moves", While I am a Mac user, I don't develop software for it so I'm in the dark on this.

I can understand Autodesk not wanting to bother with Mac development any more. Apple's aggressive and inconsiderate moves make it a pain to even maintain existing app projects on the Mac.

acomjean 8y ago

Plus the lack of a pro level desktop machine (excepting the imac pro. all-in-one) isn't helping apple with power users that Autodesk users presumably are. They announced new ones are coming a year ago but still no details or a real release date. Its a shame as the macos application packaging system makes makes for an easy way distribute and run applications.

MisterOctober 8y ago
Yep -- this kind of touches on some of the issues in the recent thread on the Mac Mini -- Apple's hardware offerings have been diminishing in utility for pro / power users for some time now -- it's like they're intentionally abandoning the pro market. Not surprising that Autodesk is discontinuing support.
syshum 8y ago
Apple prefers to tell you a $1,000 device every 12-18 months as opposed to a $2000 device every 3-5years... Plus they make a ton more money on Apps on from the store in mobile. It is all economics, they do not care about the pro user anymore because the pro user is not where they make money
- scarface74 8y ago
  If that were true, they wouldn’t still be supporting the iPhone 5s that was introduced in 2012 with iOS 12 - which will be introduced this year. How many Android phones even get two years worth of updates let alone 6.
  - syshum 8y ago
    Incorrect, long term support is actually required because of the insane prices they want to charge and market saturation. Like with cars, the used market supports the selling of new devices. This is something Android manufacturers need to figure out.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      If long term support were “required” then why don’t the high end Android phones that cost just as much as iPhones get the same number of updates? But either way, that Apple updates phones for years contradicts the statement that Apple wants you to replace your phone every two years.
chrisseaton 8y ago
> Plus the lack of a pro level desktop machine (excepting the imac pro. all-in-one) The lack of a pro-level machine... except for the pro-level machine that they do have.
- scarface74 8y ago
  They also admitted at a round table that they designed themselves into a “thermal corner” with the last Mac Pro and that they will be introducing another one in 2019.
  - ksec 8y ago
    They "learned" / "understand" / "realise" that they went into a thermal corner "FOUR" years after the product was first released. Then they made announcement they are going to do a redesign, 4 years after it first released, and the redesign won't be coming out til 2019, 2 years after they made the redesign announcement. A total of 6 years. That is the amount of care they have for "pro" users. They then went to release an iMac Pro which many call it an interim solution. An iMac Pro capable of having two 250W chip cooled, Something the community has been calling for years for the iMac ( For so long everyone abandoned the hope already ) and some said was not possible due to cooling requirement. Turns out it wasn't a technical barrier, simply Apple won't make it. And as rumours goes, it wasn't until a very large studio decide to abandoned the Mac platform due to Mac Pro, and someone who had connection with Apple SVPs and told hem about it, before they realise how much care they have given to the pro users. Apple forgot that while it was Steve jobs bumping put new strategies and initiative that changed Apple in the long run. It was these pro users whom bleed six colours that kept Apple alive in the first place.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      People have been calling for an iMac Pro type hardware “for years”? I doubt very seriously that anyone even wanted something like the iMac Pro before it was released. And as rumours goes, it wasn't until a very large studio decide to abandoned the Mac platform due to Mac Pro, and someone who had connection with Apple SVPs and told hem about it, before they realise how much care they have given to the pro users. I doubt very seriously that one studio abandoning a product line that makes less than 10% of thier revenue made Apple panic. Apple forgot that while it was Steve jobs bumping put new strategies and initiative that changed Apple in the long run. It was these pro users whom bleed six colours that kept Apple alive in the first place. Things change. The Mac is no longer at the center of Apple’s universe. As far as what Steve thought that Apple’s direction of the Mac should be.... “If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all it’s worth – and get busy on the next great thing. The PC wars are over. Done. Microsoft won a long time ago” https://www.wired.com/2011/08/money-quotes-steve-jobs-style/ https://www.wired.com/2011/08/money-quotes-steve-jobs-style/ If you think Jobs was tied to the Mac on his return, you weren’t paying attention.

api 8y ago

Apple doesn't seem to care about that market. The iPhone ate the company, and its plans for the Mac seem unclear. This just helps cement Microsoft's relative monopoly on the business pro market outside software development.

scarface74 8y ago
If by “unclear” you mean. - releasing new OS versions every year - announcing publicly they are working on a new Mac Pro. - announcing publicly that they are merging iOS and MacOS frameworks over the next year or two to make cross platform development easier. - developing new custom chipsets for the Mac (the Tx line of chips)
- rleigh 8y ago
  The annual releases are mostly cosmetic and typically only change higher-level details. They haven't made much in the way of substantive changes to the base system since 10.6. At the lower level, it's looking like abandonware. Apple is notoriously secretive. The "public announcement" of the new Mac Pro was a whole lot of nothing. Not one substantive detail. Am I supposed to wait until its 2019 release before making any commitment to support it? It might be terrible, and there's no information about its specifications. "Waiting in hope" is no good for business and product planning. The hype train might work for phones, but for computer hardware it's a bit pathetic, and leaves me doubting they have a serious plan for it (as if the existing Mac Pro left us in any doubt at all). The merging of frameworks isn't of the slightest interest if you only develop for MacOS. And the new chipsets aren't particularly noteworthy either; they are just details. As a cross-platform software developer, I really couldn't care less. But I do care about their support for industry-standard APIs.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    The annual releases are mostly cosmetic and typically only change higher-level details. They haven't made much in the way of substantive changes to the base system since 10.6. At the lower level, it's looking like abandonware. How much has Windows and Linux changed during that time? I’m not going to read off the change log of everything that Apple has changed since 10.6 Apple is notoriously secretive. The "public announcement" of the new Mac Pro was a whole lot of nothing. Not one substantive detail. Am I supposed to wait until its 2019 release before making any commitment to support it? So exactly what do you have to do to support the Mac Pro specifically? Of course they didn’t have any details. They hadn’t started on it st the time. But it still contradicts the narrative that where Apple is headed with the Mac is “unclear”. It might be terrible, and there's no information about its specifications. "Waiting in hope" is no good for business and product planning. I can give you hint. It’s going to be a multi core Intel chip. What are you thinking you need to do to support the Mac Pro specifically. The hype train might work for phones, but for computer hardware it's a bit pathetic, and leaves me doubting they have a serious plan for it (as if the existing Mac Pro left us in any doubt at all). Seeing they admitted they made a huge mistake with the current Mac Pro. The merging of frameworks isn't of the slightest interest if you only develop for MacOS. So the direction of the Mac APIs is of no interest to a Mac developer as is the fact that they are moving away from AppKit? Whether the fact they are merging the frameworks of IOS and MacOS are of interest to one random person on HN doesn’t mean their direction “isn’t clear”. The direction they are moving MacOS - the APIs is clear. that they are And the new chipsets aren't particularly noteworthy either; they are just details. So first it’s not clear and now “just the details” don’t matter. As a cross-platform software developer, I really couldn't care less. But I do care about their support for industry-standard APIs. So you’re a “cross platform developer” and you’re overly concerned about the Mac Pro - a tiny sliver of a tiny sliver of the market. But you just said that you didn’t care about the merging of iOS and MacOS as a “Mac only developer”. A “cross platform developer” has much bigger issues than the graphic APIs unless you plan to do something like Electron and anyone should avoid those apps anyway.

reaperducer 8y ago

It just feels like 15 years from now we're going to be reading articles in the WSJ and NYT headlined "How Tim Cook Pleased The Shareholders While He Destroyed Apple." With all the political influence, brand awareness, and metric assloads of cash Apple has, it should be the best company in the world. But every day brings more headlines that make it seem like Apple's best days are behind it. It keeps stumbling -- publicly and unnecessarily. I'm not going to jump on the "Apple was better under/because of Steve Jobs" bandwagon. But this race is Apple's to lose. And the number of small cracks appearing everywhere is becoming disturbing.

scarface74 8y ago
It just feels like 15 years from now we're going to be reading articles in the WSJ and NYT headlined "How Tim Cook Pleased The Shareholders While He Destroyed Apple." My next computer will be a Mac - at the looks of things now, probably an iMac - but if Apple loses the high end Mac market, does it really matter? Around 10% of Apples revenue comes from Macs and even less from high end Macs. If Apple becomes an iOS company and makes the iPad more computer like, it would be a win.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  if Apple loses the high end Mac market, does it really matter? Yes. Because there is far more to life than market share and revenue. Especially at Apple, where the last two people in charge (Cook and Jobs) have both stated in public that they're committed to making better products, and that money is secondary.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    For a company, there is nothing more important than revenue (well net income to be more precise.) Believing any company cares about anything else is naive.
    - reaperducer 8y ago
      Believing any company cares about anything else is naive. It's very sad that your experience is so limited. There are plenty of companies that actually care about things other than profit. I had the pleasure of working for one once, and through that was introduced to others.

optimuspaul 8y ago

cold you elaborate on "aggressive and inconsiderate moves", While I am a Mac user, I don't develop software for it so I'm in the dark on this.