10 ms·

People who can "vacation at home" either: a. don't have kids b. don't have relatives and friends nearby c. don't upkeep their own house or living quarters (h

by jimmy1 8y ago

People who can "vacation at home" either: a. don't have kids b. don't have relatives and friends nearby c. don't upkeep their own house or living quarters (has a maid/servent/relative living with them that does everything) The thought of staying home for my vacation, at least for me, is met with feelings of intense drudgery. There is nothing relaxing to me about the suburban/urban rat race I live in. A couple of years ago, I took a flight to Jamaica and stayed at a Butler Resort. I literally sat on turquoise water, white sand beaches all day and had rum drinks brought to me on a silver platter. It was all inclusive, including the spa. If it doesn't make sense to you, you aren't going to the right places. If cost is an issue, I wouldn't have been planning a trip to begin with.

southerndrift 8y ago
a. let the kids visit a summer camp for a week or two b. invite your friends c. hire a helping hand for your vacation. That's still cheaper than going on a regular vacation
namuol 8y ago
I'm not a parent, but if there's one thing I've for-sure learned about parenthood, it's that it gives you license to passive-aggressively dismiss the perspective of any and all non-parents.
- fermienrico 8y ago
  Yep, and it goes on to great extents. I don’t have kids but all coworkers of mine get a “one up” for doing the same things I’m doing while being parents. 7 billion people have been born in last 100 years. Raising kids isn’t abnormal.
  - marmadukester39 8y ago
    No, but it’s hard on a level you can’t understand until you do it.
    - namuol 8y ago
      This is an example of dismissing someone else's perspective. Have you considered that someone might choose not to have children because they understand how difficult it is?
      - sixstringtheory 8y ago
        You could say they correctly assume it’s hard, but to really understand it, they’d need to experience it, no?
        mac01021 8y ago
        No. There are many ways to understand. They could witness a close friend or sibling struggling to raise children. They could simply reason about the commitment of time and money required and take note of all the other things in life that parenthood would require them to give up.
        Hannan 8y ago
        You can hear about the experience of a POW, but it won't ever be the same as being a POW. Not trying to equate the two, just showing how telling/imagining aren't quite the same as experiencing.
        projektir 8y ago
        Sure, but that's true for everything, there's nothing unique about parenting here. I.e., you similarly don't have quite the same experience as a no-kids person who has depression. Yet this argument seems to come exclusively from parents, assigning parenthood a special status, which makes no sense, since parenting is extremely commom.
        nojvek 8y ago
        This is the same argument as “men will never understand women because to truly understand a woman, you have to be a woman” Well, empathy is quite a real thing. Also everyone’s experience is different, so even if you are a woman, you “truly don’t know what it means to be a woman”.
- vecinu 8y ago
  On top of that, I too have noticed that parents often talk down to people that haven't experienced parenthood. Almost as if becoming a parent is very difficult and gives you enlightenment that can be found in no other way.
  - blzaugg 8y ago
    But taking care of children IS very difficult. And, yes, being a parent is the only way to be enlightened in that way. Nothing else will give you the same experience.
    - apple4ever 8y ago
      Absolutely agree. Now I don’t talk down to non-parents, because they made that choice or had the choice made for them (temporarily or permanently). It’s crazy stressful but at the same time so joyous.
  - bdamm 8y ago
    > Almost as if becoming a parent is very difficult and gives you enlightenment that can be found in no other way. You got it! Now, the "talking down to" is annoying. But if it's about non-parents telling parents about how easy life should be, and parents replying along the lines of "fool, no." it's absolutely warranted.
  - w0m 8y ago
    Honestly in this case; it's somewhat true. Picture a world where you have ~no control of your daily life. You wake up when you hear the screaming in the monitor. You completely structure every non-work hour around 3 hour blocks of potted plants eat/sleep/shit/nap cycles with periods of incredible stress (and uh.. joy) sprinkled liberally through (Holy crap, was that red in the horrible poop running down my leg? Oh we gave him radish, whew.) I'm being a little facetious here, but i'm just saying that everyones life situation is different. As a relatively new parent, In that situation, I can see it being incredibly hard to simply 'relax' at home. More than anything you'll finally have time to notice the liquified pees that has hardened on the ceiling than actually relax. When i was in my 20s every vacation was 2 weeks of Hostels and hikes, but we are all in different life situations and that doens't make one persons opinion of a 'vacation' more correct than anothers.
- w8rbt 8y ago
  Just don't give me advice about kids (if you don't have kids) and we'll get along just fine ;) Please do give me advice about other things that you know about and have experience with when I need it.
  - namuol 8y ago
    My only advice is to try not to be self-righteous, but this has nothing to do with parenthood.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      The difference is that everyone who has kids has known what life is like with and without kids. The opposite is not true.
      - projektir 8y ago
        This is true for lots of things, though, many much more exclusive than parenthood, why is having kids singled out?
        scarface74 8y ago
        And you shouldn’t speak as if you have first hand experience on those things either.
  - Sir_Substance 8y ago
    Would you take the advice of a childless pediatrician?
    - blzaugg 8y ago
      Absolutely. Parenthood and child medicine are very different things.
      - skinnymuch 8y ago
- murrayb 8y ago
  "Dismissing the perspective of any and all non-<insert group>" is a generalisation and not unique to parents. Though as a parent I have noticed it too.
- nkozyra 8y ago
  And vice versa, apparently.
- koonsolo 8y ago
  All parents have been non-parents. None of the non-parents have been parents. So let me tell you one thing: you have no idea.
finaliteration 8y ago
Or they can’t afford to do anything other than stay at home during some downtime... Not everyone makes $100k+ a year and can save for a vacation away from home.
- VLM 8y ago
  The gas lighting I've seen on this topic in recent years is weird. Who's paying for it or what's their angle? Some kind of travel startup?
- alexgmcm 8y ago
  I can afford it but I find travelling stressful as you have to get to the airport, go through security, check in at the hotel etc. Also even though I can afford it, it rarely seems like the best use of the money. I mainly travel because I have to visit my family (I live abroad) or my SO wants to visit somewhere.
  - apple4ever 8y ago
    I agree- it rarely seems like the best use of money. At least often.
ChristianBundy 8y ago
> There is nothing relaxing to me about the suburban/urban rat race I live in. Then go camping. Going to Jamaica and paying through the nose to be waited on by other people who also hate their rat race jobs isn't a sustainable solution to this problem. Because MMM appeals to some tech workers, maybe this will help: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/09/20/seek-not-to-be-entertained/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/09/20/seek-not-to-be-en...
- w0m 8y ago
  Though 'paying through the nose' is different for everyone. There is no 'one size fits all' approach to something as personal as how to spend ones (generally limited) free time.
PunchTornado 8y ago
1) of course I don't 2) I love to meet them at a coffee or play boardgames and it is relaxing 3) I finish all house work in less than an hour and don't have servants.
- majewsky 8y ago
  > I finish all house work in less than an hour Teach me.
  - fcarraldo 8y ago
    Typically this is some combination of: 1. Make enough money to never cook 2. Never cook 3. Live in a tiny Bay Area apartment 4. Have no pets 5. Live alone
    - cglace 8y ago
      I live in a four bedroom home with a huge yard. The secret is to clean as you go about your life. If you leave a room, look around, see if there is something you should take with you. Do dishes while you are waiting for something to cook. Buy a cordless vacuum for quick access. When the weekend comes around your house is already clean.
      - sixstringtheory 8y ago
        Also, the less stuff you own, the less stuff you have to organize/dust/hide.
      - bdamm 8y ago
        How do I teach the others in my family to do this? I've tried for years but they still resist or are incapable of it!
        cglace 8y ago
        I'll let you know when I have kids. I did teach my dog to pick up her toys though.
murrayb 8y ago
I have 2 primary or lower school aged kids and do upkeep my own house, I also have relatives nearby though I am not sure how that is relevant. I love stay at home holidays and am on one now. We do take non stay at home vacations but I don't find them as relaxing. This week I am looking forward to walking the kids to school (something too time prohibitive normally) hiking, reading, playing in the shed and if I feel like it some home maintenance too. Horses for courses I guess :)
maccard 8y ago
I have a couple of issues with your post. > don't upkeep their own house or living quarters I have done a staycation (and enjoyed it) and yes I keep my own house. I cooked the things I want to cook but don't normally have time/drive to do so, I did the things that I normally have to ration my time on (playing games/guitar, reading, outdoor walks). It was quite pleasant. > If it doesn't make sense to you, you aren't going to the right places. I completely disagree. I did a long weekend in an all inclusive resort similar to what you described on Antigua. I'll never do one again. (At least not with just two of us, maybe if I had children it would be different). I had no access to the things I love (you have to ration books, not bringing a guitar across the Atlantic). I found the whole "make friends with the people you're tipping to bring you drinks/food" thing very strange. I would much rather stay with some people (recently usually AirBnbs in a room in the hosts homes), get some recommendations of places to eat/drink/see that they like to go to, and explore with my best friend/partner. > If cost is an issue, I wouldn't have been planning a trip to begin with. Cost isn't a binary thing. There are otions between spending a week in your house doing laundry and staying in an 800 dollar a night all inclusive hotel and 2000 dollars on flights. I can't afford to spend 10 nights in an all inclusive resort of that caliber while flying to the other side of the world in business class - does that mean I can't have an abroad trip? I did a 4 day trip to Palma in Majorca last September. It was stunningly beautiful, the food was incredible and it was a wonderful trip. We spent 300 pounds on flights, about 50 pounds on transport (taxis/airport buses) while we were there, and maybe about 500 pounds while we were there. It was indulgent, and the entire trip was cheaper than 2 nights in an all inclusive resort. I know which I would do again.
saltcured 8y ago
From what I have seen, the only thing more hectic than a coworker's home life with kids is his vacation logistics. Parents often don't have vacations for themselves, they develop complex activity programs around the kids! On your last point, I have mostly been to classic resort destinations as part of boondoggle work trips. I actually find them excruciatingly boring. I'd rather have a "staycation" than go to those on my own volition. But, I do appreciate a good vacation. For me, that's a retreat to the mountains for hiking, snowshoeing, or skiing. I like to get out of the sensorium of my coastal CA home and enter that of high alpine forests, peaks, and valleys. I don't travel/live to eat and sleep though. I eat and sleep to travel/live. I also don't need to keep going to different places to sustain some novelty factor. I can thoroughly enjoy seeing the same forests and mountains in different seasons, years, and decades. The forest changes over these timescales and so does the visitor. Each encounter is unique.

by jimmy1 8y ago

southerndrift 8y ago

a. let the kids visit a summer camp for a week or two b. invite your friends c. hire a helping hand for your vacation. That's still cheaper than going on a regular vacation

namuol 8y ago

I'm not a parent, but if there's one thing I've for-sure learned about parenthood, it's that it gives you license to passive-aggressively dismiss the perspective of any and all non-parents.

fermienrico 8y ago
Yep, and it goes on to great extents. I don’t have kids but all coworkers of mine get a “one up” for doing the same things I’m doing while being parents. 7 billion people have been born in last 100 years. Raising kids isn’t abnormal.
- marmadukester39 8y ago
  No, but it’s hard on a level you can’t understand until you do it.
  - namuol 8y ago
    This is an example of dismissing someone else's perspective. Have you considered that someone might choose not to have children because they understand how difficult it is?
    - sixstringtheory 8y ago
      You could say they correctly assume it’s hard, but to really understand it, they’d need to experience it, no?
      - mac01021 8y ago
        No. There are many ways to understand. They could witness a close friend or sibling struggling to raise children. They could simply reason about the commitment of time and money required and take note of all the other things in life that parenthood would require them to give up.
        Hannan 8y ago
        You can hear about the experience of a POW, but it won't ever be the same as being a POW. Not trying to equate the two, just showing how telling/imagining aren't quite the same as experiencing.
        projektir 8y ago
        Sure, but that's true for everything, there's nothing unique about parenting here. I.e., you similarly don't have quite the same experience as a no-kids person who has depression. Yet this argument seems to come exclusively from parents, assigning parenthood a special status, which makes no sense, since parenting is extremely commom.
        nojvek 8y ago
        This is the same argument as “men will never understand women because to truly understand a woman, you have to be a woman” Well, empathy is quite a real thing. Also everyone’s experience is different, so even if you are a woman, you “truly don’t know what it means to be a woman”.
vecinu 8y ago
On top of that, I too have noticed that parents often talk down to people that haven't experienced parenthood. Almost as if becoming a parent is very difficult and gives you enlightenment that can be found in no other way.
- blzaugg 8y ago
  But taking care of children IS very difficult. And, yes, being a parent is the only way to be enlightened in that way. Nothing else will give you the same experience.
  - apple4ever 8y ago
    Absolutely agree. Now I don’t talk down to non-parents, because they made that choice or had the choice made for them (temporarily or permanently). It’s crazy stressful but at the same time so joyous.
- bdamm 8y ago
  > Almost as if becoming a parent is very difficult and gives you enlightenment that can be found in no other way. You got it! Now, the "talking down to" is annoying. But if it's about non-parents telling parents about how easy life should be, and parents replying along the lines of "fool, no." it's absolutely warranted.
- w0m 8y ago
  Honestly in this case; it's somewhat true. Picture a world where you have ~no control of your daily life. You wake up when you hear the screaming in the monitor. You completely structure every non-work hour around 3 hour blocks of potted plants eat/sleep/shit/nap cycles with periods of incredible stress (and uh.. joy) sprinkled liberally through (Holy crap, was that red in the horrible poop running down my leg? Oh we gave him radish, whew.) I'm being a little facetious here, but i'm just saying that everyones life situation is different. As a relatively new parent, In that situation, I can see it being incredibly hard to simply 'relax' at home. More than anything you'll finally have time to notice the liquified pees that has hardened on the ceiling than actually relax. When i was in my 20s every vacation was 2 weeks of Hostels and hikes, but we are all in different life situations and that doens't make one persons opinion of a 'vacation' more correct than anothers.
w8rbt 8y ago
Just don't give me advice about kids (if you don't have kids) and we'll get along just fine ;) Please do give me advice about other things that you know about and have experience with when I need it.
- namuol 8y ago
  My only advice is to try not to be self-righteous, but this has nothing to do with parenthood.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    The difference is that everyone who has kids has known what life is like with and without kids. The opposite is not true.
    - projektir 8y ago
      This is true for lots of things, though, many much more exclusive than parenthood, why is having kids singled out?
      - scarface74 8y ago
        And you shouldn’t speak as if you have first hand experience on those things either.
- Sir_Substance 8y ago
  Would you take the advice of a childless pediatrician?
  - blzaugg 8y ago
    Absolutely. Parenthood and child medicine are very different things.
    - skinnymuch 8y ago
murrayb 8y ago
"Dismissing the perspective of any and all non-<insert group>" is a generalisation and not unique to parents. Though as a parent I have noticed it too.
nkozyra 8y ago
And vice versa, apparently.
koonsolo 8y ago
All parents have been non-parents. None of the non-parents have been parents. So let me tell you one thing: you have no idea.

finaliteration 8y ago

Or they can’t afford to do anything other than stay at home during some downtime... Not everyone makes $100k+ a year and can save for a vacation away from home.

VLM 8y ago
The gas lighting I've seen on this topic in recent years is weird. Who's paying for it or what's their angle? Some kind of travel startup?
alexgmcm 8y ago
I can afford it but I find travelling stressful as you have to get to the airport, go through security, check in at the hotel etc. Also even though I can afford it, it rarely seems like the best use of the money. I mainly travel because I have to visit my family (I live abroad) or my SO wants to visit somewhere.
- apple4ever 8y ago
  I agree- it rarely seems like the best use of money. At least often.

ChristianBundy 8y ago

> There is nothing relaxing to me about the suburban/urban rat race I live in. Then go camping. Going to Jamaica and paying through the nose to be waited on by other people who also hate their rat race jobs isn't a sustainable solution to this problem. Because MMM appeals to some tech workers, maybe this will help: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/09/20/seek-not-to-be-entertained/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/09/20/seek-not-to-be-en...

w0m 8y ago
Though 'paying through the nose' is different for everyone. There is no 'one size fits all' approach to something as personal as how to spend ones (generally limited) free time.

PunchTornado 8y ago

1) of course I don't 2) I love to meet them at a coffee or play boardgames and it is relaxing 3) I finish all house work in less than an hour and don't have servants.

majewsky 8y ago
> I finish all house work in less than an hour Teach me.
- fcarraldo 8y ago
  Typically this is some combination of: 1. Make enough money to never cook 2. Never cook 3. Live in a tiny Bay Area apartment 4. Have no pets 5. Live alone
  - cglace 8y ago
    I live in a four bedroom home with a huge yard. The secret is to clean as you go about your life. If you leave a room, look around, see if there is something you should take with you. Do dishes while you are waiting for something to cook. Buy a cordless vacuum for quick access. When the weekend comes around your house is already clean.
    - sixstringtheory 8y ago
      Also, the less stuff you own, the less stuff you have to organize/dust/hide.
    - bdamm 8y ago
      How do I teach the others in my family to do this? I've tried for years but they still resist or are incapable of it!
      - cglace 8y ago
        I'll let you know when I have kids. I did teach my dog to pick up her toys though.

murrayb 8y ago

I have 2 primary or lower school aged kids and do upkeep my own house, I also have relatives nearby though I am not sure how that is relevant. I love stay at home holidays and am on one now. We do take non stay at home vacations but I don't find them as relaxing. This week I am looking forward to walking the kids to school (something too time prohibitive normally) hiking, reading, playing in the shed and if I feel like it some home maintenance too. Horses for courses I guess :)

maccard 8y ago

I have a couple of issues with your post. > don't upkeep their own house or living quarters I have done a staycation (and enjoyed it) and yes I keep my own house. I cooked the things I want to cook but don't normally have time/drive to do so, I did the things that I normally have to ration my time on (playing games/guitar, reading, outdoor walks). It was quite pleasant. > If it doesn't make sense to you, you aren't going to the right places. I completely disagree. I did a long weekend in an all inclusive resort similar to what you described on Antigua. I'll never do one again. (At least not with just two of us, maybe if I had children it would be different). I had no access to the things I love (you have to ration books, not bringing a guitar across the Atlantic). I found the whole "make friends with the people you're tipping to bring you drinks/food" thing very strange. I would much rather stay with some people (recently usually AirBnbs in a room in the hosts homes), get some recommendations of places to eat/drink/see that they like to go to, and explore with my best friend/partner. > If cost is an issue, I wouldn't have been planning a trip to begin with. Cost isn't a binary thing. There are otions between spending a week in your house doing laundry and staying in an 800 dollar a night all inclusive hotel and 2000 dollars on flights. I can't afford to spend 10 nights in an all inclusive resort of that caliber while flying to the other side of the world in business class - does that mean I can't have an abroad trip? I did a 4 day trip to Palma in Majorca last September. It was stunningly beautiful, the food was incredible and it was a wonderful trip. We spent 300 pounds on flights, about 50 pounds on transport (taxis/airport buses) while we were there, and maybe about 500 pounds while we were there. It was indulgent, and the entire trip was cheaper than 2 nights in an all inclusive resort. I know which I would do again.

saltcured 8y ago

From what I have seen, the only thing more hectic than a coworker's home life with kids is his vacation logistics. Parents often don't have vacations for themselves, they develop complex activity programs around the kids! On your last point, I have mostly been to classic resort destinations as part of boondoggle work trips. I actually find them excruciatingly boring. I'd rather have a "staycation" than go to those on my own volition. But, I do appreciate a good vacation. For me, that's a retreat to the mountains for hiking, snowshoeing, or skiing. I like to get out of the sensorium of my coastal CA home and enter that of high alpine forests, peaks, and valleys. I don't travel/live to eat and sleep though. I eat and sleep to travel/live. I also don't need to keep going to different places to sustain some novelty factor. I can thoroughly enjoy seeing the same forests and mountains in different seasons, years, and decades. The forest changes over these timescales and so does the visitor. Each encounter is unique.