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A Rogue Tesla Mechanic Resurrecting Salvaged Cars [video]

209 points by CaliforniaKarl 8y ago

justicezyx 8y ago
Wow first time heard someone capable of repair a Tesla. I always was assuming Tesla cars are designed to be hostile to repair outside their own factory (partially due to inherent complexity, and market strategy as well). Also huge respect to his belief that things people bought should always be repairable by the owner (with some reasonable learned skills).
- horsecaptin 8y ago
  Doesn't a Tesla have fewer parts than a conventional vehicle? If so, I'd imagine that they're simpler to fix as long as the person knows what they're doing / is willing to learn. Really cool video, btw. The message is spot on!
  - pretendscholar 8y ago
    Fewer parts doesn't mean easier to fix if the parts require more expensive, exotic shop equipment.
    - jgibson 8y ago
      What parts would require more fancy equipment? Induction motors are pretty dead simple and probably built to lower tolerances than the average ICE. An EV has more reliance on fancy electronics, which would be hard to replicate, but that applies to any modern day car too. Think of the engine ECU that controls fuel flow, spark timing, etc. You aren't going to pick one of those up at sparkfun.
      - jacquesm 8y ago
        Think of a Tesla as a laptop computer with a very large battery bank, some powerful inverters and electric motors. It has all the complexities of a cluster on wheels, tons of software systems and as a result is hard to diagnose properly. So the first 'fancy equipment' you will need is a set of proper diagnostics equipment, which is - given the complexity involved - most likely supplied by the manufacturer or not at all. What Tesla could do - but which they would hate because it is part of their competitive edge - is to release full schematics and software listings, but no other ordinary car manufacturer does this, nor are they required to by law. Good thing too because if the Toyota ECU was anything to go by the industry would look pretty dumb.
  - mikeash 8y ago
    You’re not going to be replacing piston seals or doing a transmission rebuild on one, but they’re complex and highly computerized. High voltage power electronics are probably quite exciting to work with, too.
    - flyinghamster 8y ago
      Then the proper thing to do is provide relevant safety procedures in the service manual. Combustion cars certainly have plenty of hazards (toxic and flammable liquids, poison gas, rotating machinery, and, yes, high voltages, too). Treating electric cars as "these are mystery devices that must be repaired only by us, because reasons" does the world an enormous disservice.
      - crunchlibrarian 8y ago
        That seems to be the attitude across tech, not just with electric cars. “Trust us and come into our magical garden where we take care of everything” Extremely unappealing to me.
    - dotancohen 8y ago
      When working with high energy devices - be that voltage, chemical potential, rotating mass, etc - generally "exciting" is something to be avoided.
    - jacquesm 8y ago
      High voltage DC at that, until you hit the inverters after which it is 3 phase variable frequency (and still quite high voltage).
      - timpattinson 8y ago
        Still just as, if not more lethal due to high frequency AC
- dyarosla 8y ago
  I see this belief (that things people bought should always be repairable by the owner) by many but I always feel it’s extremely self-centered. IMO it’s reckless to think this way about repairing complex systems that can affect others. Repairing something that you own that only affects you is different from repairing something like a car that could affect others. As a completely fictional example: incorrectly repairing a complex brake system could pose a danger to other drivers and lead to an -otherwise avoidable- accident. EDIT: some responses are focusing too closely on the example of brakes- perhaps it’s not the best way to illustrate my point. Say, instead, your engine broke or your self driving car’s software was malfunctioning. Should you still have the right to repair?
  - atomical 8y ago
    Several years ago I incorrectly replaced brakes on my car. Only one caliper failed and there was plenty of stopping power and warning that something was wrong. It was loud as hell! The mechanic at the garage told me that torquing nuts is tricky because if you under torque the nuts come loose. But sometimes they rust and you need to torque them more than the manufacturer spec. In that case he said that could also lead to failure. He said "we've all been there" to my glum attitude about screwing up the repair. Repairs are not always simple. Hopefully there are other protections in place if one component fails.
  - userbinator 8y ago
    The problem is that taking your line of thought to its logical conclusion, we end up with a dystopian society where the bulk of the knowledge, power, and control is concentrated in a tiny minority and also enforced by such. Everything you do affects everyone else, that's no excuse to take away freedom. "No risk no life."
    - dyarosla 8y ago
      I don’t believe that’s the only logical conclusion. Perhaps there should be some base requirement for people who want to repair something- be it a certification or insurance requirement. There could definitely be degrees of freedom for repair on specific items, much like there’s a degree of freedom of usage for particular items. The right to own should not necessarily imply a right to repair for all types of items.
- userbinator 8y ago
  I always was assuming Tesla cars are designed to be hostile to repair outside their own factory They are. That (fortunately) doesn't stop people from still trying, and succeeding. Look up Louis Rossmann and Apple products for a analogous example.
  - crooked-v 8y ago
    I think that analogy somewhat breaks down because, aside from action taken by specific companies, the non-repairability of modern laptops in general is heavily driven by the endless desire of consumers for lighter and thinner devices with more battery capacity. By contrast, for modern electric cars weight and size has so much margin that it's basically a non-issue aside from the complications of fitting the battery into the chassis. It means that car companies have far, far less of a genuine engineering-driven reason to make devices that are impossible to repair at home or in small shops.
InTheArena 8y ago
I've watched his videos, and they are awesome.. but I am also somewhat surprised he hasn't electrocuted himself yet. All that said, his point is 100% on base. right now Tesla has gotten around without addressing right-to-repair issues. The model 3 is supposed to be a mainstream car. One of the reasons I have not pulled the trigger yet on my deposit, is because I am not convinced that anyone other then Tesla can repair it.
- Waterluvian 8y ago
  I watch this guy on YouTube, Louis Rossman, who fixes MacBooks. This reminds me exactly of his experiences. Macs are increasingly more difficult to repair and Apple generally wants to own the repair experience so they can funnel you towards a new purchase. Cars these days can run half a million miles in their lifetime if you treat them right and replace the pieces that break. Could you imagine a future where cars followed the Apple model?
  - joselreyes 8y ago
    I actually think Apple’s repair system is one of the reasons they have success. Most customers can’t repair their stuff so having a trustworthy place to go to is a really nice safety blanket. Compare that to most other phone or computer manufacturers where you have to ship your stuff or do it yourself and risk voiding warranties. I imagine eventually Tesla will offer an Apple-esque “Certified Repair” service option to increase their ability to help customers with non-Tesla employees.
    - pietroglyph 8y ago
      I think the biggest issue with Apple's "repair" model is the amount of repairing that actually goes on. As a result of the increasing board integration of Apple computers and Apple's repair policy, a single resistor kicking the bucket means a full board replacement that will set you back a good fraction of what you paid for the computer in the first place, at an Apple certified repair center. Even worse is the outright hostility to 3rd party repair shops who instead opt for (more difficult), but ultimately less expensive (for the custom and the environment) component-level repair. You won't be getting any documentation or spare parts from Apple.
soared 8y ago
Who is this guy? I feel like you'd have to a be an electrical engineer, ex-bmw mechanic, who got rich and is now wealthy + retired.
- mahart 8y ago
  I've watched a bunch of his videos a while back and he said he had a day job in the tech industry. But basically he's said he wanted a tesla without paying $$$ so he bought some salvage vehicles and did it as a hobby. But with his channel starting to take off he might have transitioned to a youtube career. At this point he's probably funding a lot of it via youtube income.
  - spike021 8y ago
    Reminds me of Chris, who has the B is for Build channel on YT. He started rebuilding a few salvage cars (BRZ, Lotus Evora) on the side while being a software engineer. Ended up losing that job and now does YT full time basically rebuilding salvage or almost salvage cars.
backtoyoujim 8y ago
I wonder if that is how Singer Vehicle Design got started making the best Porsches available for the road.
stcredzero 8y ago
One reads that Elon Musk has an interest in colonizing Mars. If Mars ever has a government, they'd better have some Right to Repair laws! Those would me more like, you'd-better-not-be-jerking-your-customers-around-and-let-them-repair-vital-equipment-or-people-might-freakin-die laws!
beamatronic 8y ago
Is this Rich Rebuilds? I discovered his videos recently. I found them really interesting and hilarious. I get the impression he does take appropriate safety precautions.
ChuckMcM 8y ago
That was fun to watch, I really admire the guy for his dedication to learning all the various bits of the car. He should publish a manual and sell it to support his web channel, I'd buy a copy!
hardwaresofton 8y ago
> Tesla's stance on rebuilding vehicles is that only they should be able to do it I had no idea they had this kind of stance -- is there any more nuance to it? If there isn't I cannot conscience supporting Tesla in any way again -- there's no way I'm going to help a company that disregards/works against right-to-repair get a monopoly. Just the same reason I avoid buying iDevices.
- delhanty 8y ago
  Probably it's not nuanced - John Deere like to do this sort of thing too. See my comment from March 2017: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13929078 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13929078
- greglindahl 8y ago
  Tesla doesn't do body work, it's all done by 3rd parties. But if you don't buy iDevices for that reason, you probably don't want a Tesla. Me, the one time I broke a screen, I used a 3rd party repair service, no problems.
- ehsankia 8y ago
  There's a quote from Tesla spokesperson at the end of the video: > Tesla continued that its customers are free to do what they want with their cars, including doing their own work to repair salvaged vehicles. They added that there are significant safety concerns when salvaged Teslas are repaired by unqualified mechanics, as these vehicles could pose a danger to both the mechanic and other drivers on the road. Basically, already every single time a Tesla gets a car accident, the news loves to jump all over it. Now if you had people doing a half-ass job and making a defective repair, then the bad press would fall on Tesla.
avelis 8y ago
I have been watching his channel when it was called Car Gurus and he had to change it. What is so awesome is how he is pushing the needle for the right to repair argument. As a TSLA stock holder I want him to continue to push that POV. It will only be a matter of time.
jaimex2 8y ago
I wonder if things would be different if there wasn't such a big media spotlight on Tesla. Having more repair shops would be a help to them, they are barely coping.
djaychela 8y ago
I've watched Rich Rebuilds for a while, and it's one of about 5 YouTube channels I've bothered to subscribe to. I like Rich and the content in the videos (for the most part, aside from the rants which aren't my favourites). I watched this yesterday and was pleasantly surprised at the angle of the video - I expected it to be a little more snarky about what he's done, but it presented a much better angle in terms of the right to repair that Tesla clearly fights against. I'm often told that I'm an Elon Musk fanboy by friends and family - I love what SpaceX is doing, and I want Tesla to succeed (because I'm convinced that the sooner we get ICE-powered vehicles off the roads, the better), but I have spent much of the last 30 years fixing my own vehicles; I built my first motorbike from a written-off bike, and I've owned hundreds of cars. I built my own rally cars and competed in one of them at WRC level. I love fixing things, and as soon as I found out (via Rich Rebuilds, or CarGuru as it was then) about Tesla's policy, my opinion on them changed completely; I still want them to succeed, but I can't imagine ever owning one because of their stance (even though it probably wouldn't affect me, even if I ever did own one, which is unlikely to say the least). There are a number of people on here taking what appears to me to be a straw man on the 'right to repair' angle - talking about 'repairing the software yourself'. I don't think this is what most people are talking about (and it's certainly not what Rich is talking about). It's about Tesla's restrictive policy over spare parts and repairing vehicles - not down to software level, but to the level that Rich is working at - like-for-like replacement of entire components. If a vehicle is on Tesla's list, then they will not sell you parts. And you can't get pattern parts in the way you can for most ICE vehicles - I'd imagine this is because the supply chain/pool is much smaller (Tesla is a small, niche manufacturer in reality) and they have clauses in place to stop the sale of these parts via other channels. And this is just wrong. There is no more danger in the straight like-for-like replacement of a motor unit or inverter than there is in any other competent repair. My experience of dealer repair work has been limited, but when it has taken place, it has been poor. The mechanics in question have been of the 'follow a fixed set of instructions in the order given' type, not seeming to know their trade well and get straight to the point. I was quoted over £2000 in labour costs possible to diagnose a problem with a Ford Focus I owned (car was about 5 years old at the time) - 'because we have to do the diagnosis step by step, even if it's obvious it's not that'. Had I taken it there, it would have been the full price as it was one of the last things on the list (small end failure, which was common on that particular engine). Service in the UK is incredibly bad for the most part, and I've seen friends have terrible (and expensive) experiences at franchised, approved garages, with multi-thousand costs being generated to replace parts without any improvement (A friend's BMW X5 is springing to mind). There is no significant risk to anyone if this kind of repair is carried out by competent personnel. And there are plenty of competent personnel about who would be able to do everything normally needed to repair a Tesla. The service documentation alone would allow that to happen (factory service manuals are generally a goldmine of information, but also written in such simple terms that nearly anyone could follow them), and the supply of the right parts to anyone who wants them - at a price without a prohibitive mark-up - should be a right. I'm saddened that Tesla is instead following a path trying to lock people in to their ecosystem of service - and even more so when they refuse to carry out mandated safety upgrades (such as the airbag mentioned in the piece). Oh, for anyone who thinks that Rich is really safe.... just do a bit of research into 'safety wood'!
perl4ever 8y ago
It just occurred to me that there may be another thing I don't see yet mentioned in this thread that gets in the way of repairing Teslas - from what I've read, they make constant changes in their cars during model years, so how do you know which exact parts you have in your car? I bet it's underdocumented. I have been trying to fix various things in an old car from the 80s, and one of the more annoying aspects is trying to get a replacement part and finding there is a rare variant that I need but has the same part number as the common one. There are also a lot of parts that don't have diagrams or part numbers at all, because they weren't anticipated to be serviced normally.
- chaboud 8y ago
  It's impressive to me that they can make running changes (like reducing the number of spot welds in the Model 3) without having to retest/recertify.
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    That's not that impressive, in fact it tends to be a signal of poor design. The more changes to a model in a short time the worse it will be later to find parts and to keep the car running. It will also end up being more expensive. That's why it is generally good practice to avoid the first year of a new model (unless you are into collecting low serial number cars...). And if a manufacturer that is facing a financial issue would start to reduce the number of welds on the cars (which you would assume engineering put there for a reason) I would be very suspicious, especially if they did not retest and recertify.
    - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
      Welds are actually weak points as far as I'm aware. Perhaps reducing them and using another method (usually adhesive) is actually stronger overall. It can also reduce weight. It's why a lot of high end cars these days use bonded aluminium panels instead of spot welds.
      - 8y ago
dazhbog 8y ago
Check out his youtube videos! Especially the ones he's playing the flute!
drewmol 8y ago
Tesla seems to be  toeing a line between: A) manufacturing vehicles for sale as an exclusively-electric auto maker... and B) manufacturing the necessary hardware, but then just collecting an equiptment-fee. This equipment is required, but enables use of their smart-car-as-a-service driving subscription (Terms and Conditions subjuct to change without notice). I wonder if some Tesla cars will end up like old set-top boxes for some paid Satellite TV service (DirecTV): utterly useless, illegal to circumvent due to Tesla IP violations required, but still yours to keep!
- jacquesm 8y ago
  'toeing'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line
  - goldenkey 8y ago
    Thanks, I didn't write the previous comment but had no idea that it was "toe the line" instead of "tow the line." Idioms.....why do they always seem to beat around the bush... ;-)
    - goodcanadian 8y ago
      Even then, I think it's the wrong idiom. To me, toeing the line means following the rules or maybe supporting the story . . . toeing the company line, for example. I would suggest, rather, that Tesla is walking a fine line between . . .
    - vinceguidry 8y ago
      You can usually work out which homophones make up an idiom just by thinking visually about what those homophones would mean in the idiom. "Towing a line" gives you a visual of hauling a cable out to something or someone, perhaps the meaning of that idiom, if it were a thing, would be to save someone. Toeing a line invokes using your foot for, well, something related to a line. Is it an actual line or a metaphorical line? What's the line going to be used for after you toe it? The idiom is usually used in the sense of getting really close to some imaginary, arbitrary boundary. Even if you don't know the history behind the saying, that it's something that boys used to do to mess with each other, you can usually rule one of them out and get pretty close to the actual history / meaning of the idiom. When I first came across it, I 'knew' it was 'toe' and I would have been pretty surprised if it had actually been 'tow'. What I didn't know was the precise thing that the end of the foot was actually supposed to be doing to the supposed line.
joeblau 8y ago
Uncle Rich! I found Rich's YouTube channel[1] about a year ago when I got my Model X and it's been funny and educational. It definitely sheds a lot of light on how new Tesla is at making cars, but also how much further ahead some of their manufacturing choices are then other auto brands. It's definitely got strong language and he takes lots of shots at Tesla and Tesla Fanboys, but if you've got time to watch the story of someone taking apart a car, then it's amazing. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfV0_wbjG8KJADuZT2ct4SA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfV0_wbjG8KJADuZT2ct4SA
drewg123 8y ago
I've been watching him for quite a while. One the most interesting videos is where he gets his rebuilt Tesla (Delores) to supercharge. On the face of it, that does not sound like a big deal. However, it is much more interesting than that. It basically exposes the fact that supercharging is managed by client-side security. Tesla has all kinds of restrictions on what vehicles are allowed to supercharge, and whether or not you'll be charged a fee. For example, my friend's S is a 2015 with supercharging that transfers with the vehicle, so that if he sells it to you, you can still supercharge. My 2017 X has free supercharging that is restricted to the first owner, so if I sell you my car, you'll end up paying for supercharging. And if either one of our cars is wrecked, and Tesla finds out about it, they will not allow the cars to supercharge at all until they are "recertified" by Tesla, at a cost of thousands of dollars. If you buy a salvage Tesla, I'd suggest that (unless you've rooted it, and know how to re-enable supercharging) that you just pull the sim card, and don't let it connect to your wifi. That will (hopefully) preserve your ability to supercharge at the price of making the giant touchscreen basically useless.
e40 8y ago
I don't have a Tesla nor had I heard of Rich before. What an awesome dude. I just signed up for his Patreon. In case others want to: https://www.patreon.com/RichRebuilds/overview https://www.patreon.com/RichRebuilds/overview

Wow first time heard someone capable of repair a Tesla. I always was assuming Tesla cars are designed to be hostile to repair outside their own factory (partially due to inherent complexity, and market strategy as well). Also huge respect to his belief that things people bought should always be repairable by the owner (with some reasonable learned skills).

horsecaptin 8y ago
Doesn't a Tesla have fewer parts than a conventional vehicle? If so, I'd imagine that they're simpler to fix as long as the person knows what they're doing / is willing to learn. Really cool video, btw. The message is spot on!
- pretendscholar 8y ago
  Fewer parts doesn't mean easier to fix if the parts require more expensive, exotic shop equipment.
  - jgibson 8y ago
    What parts would require more fancy equipment? Induction motors are pretty dead simple and probably built to lower tolerances than the average ICE. An EV has more reliance on fancy electronics, which would be hard to replicate, but that applies to any modern day car too. Think of the engine ECU that controls fuel flow, spark timing, etc. You aren't going to pick one of those up at sparkfun.
    - jacquesm 8y ago
      Think of a Tesla as a laptop computer with a very large battery bank, some powerful inverters and electric motors. It has all the complexities of a cluster on wheels, tons of software systems and as a result is hard to diagnose properly. So the first 'fancy equipment' you will need is a set of proper diagnostics equipment, which is - given the complexity involved - most likely supplied by the manufacturer or not at all. What Tesla could do - but which they would hate because it is part of their competitive edge - is to release full schematics and software listings, but no other ordinary car manufacturer does this, nor are they required to by law. Good thing too because if the Toyota ECU was anything to go by the industry would look pretty dumb.
- mikeash 8y ago
  You’re not going to be replacing piston seals or doing a transmission rebuild on one, but they’re complex and highly computerized. High voltage power electronics are probably quite exciting to work with, too.
  - flyinghamster 8y ago
    Then the proper thing to do is provide relevant safety procedures in the service manual. Combustion cars certainly have plenty of hazards (toxic and flammable liquids, poison gas, rotating machinery, and, yes, high voltages, too). Treating electric cars as "these are mystery devices that must be repaired only by us, because reasons" does the world an enormous disservice.
    - crunchlibrarian 8y ago
      That seems to be the attitude across tech, not just with electric cars. “Trust us and come into our magical garden where we take care of everything” Extremely unappealing to me.
  - dotancohen 8y ago
    When working with high energy devices - be that voltage, chemical potential, rotating mass, etc - generally "exciting" is something to be avoided.
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    High voltage DC at that, until you hit the inverters after which it is 3 phase variable frequency (and still quite high voltage).
    - timpattinson 8y ago
      Still just as, if not more lethal due to high frequency AC
dyarosla 8y ago
I see this belief (that things people bought should always be repairable by the owner) by many but I always feel it’s extremely self-centered. IMO it’s reckless to think this way about repairing complex systems that can affect others. Repairing something that you own that only affects you is different from repairing something like a car that could affect others. As a completely fictional example: incorrectly repairing a complex brake system could pose a danger to other drivers and lead to an -otherwise avoidable- accident. EDIT: some responses are focusing too closely on the example of brakes- perhaps it’s not the best way to illustrate my point. Say, instead, your engine broke or your self driving car’s software was malfunctioning. Should you still have the right to repair?
- atomical 8y ago
  Several years ago I incorrectly replaced brakes on my car. Only one caliper failed and there was plenty of stopping power and warning that something was wrong. It was loud as hell! The mechanic at the garage told me that torquing nuts is tricky because if you under torque the nuts come loose. But sometimes they rust and you need to torque them more than the manufacturer spec. In that case he said that could also lead to failure. He said "we've all been there" to my glum attitude about screwing up the repair. Repairs are not always simple. Hopefully there are other protections in place if one component fails.
- userbinator 8y ago
  The problem is that taking your line of thought to its logical conclusion, we end up with a dystopian society where the bulk of the knowledge, power, and control is concentrated in a tiny minority and also enforced by such. Everything you do affects everyone else, that's no excuse to take away freedom. "No risk no life."
  - dyarosla 8y ago
    I don’t believe that’s the only logical conclusion. Perhaps there should be some base requirement for people who want to repair something- be it a certification or insurance requirement. There could definitely be degrees of freedom for repair on specific items, much like there’s a degree of freedom of usage for particular items. The right to own should not necessarily imply a right to repair for all types of items.
userbinator 8y ago
I always was assuming Tesla cars are designed to be hostile to repair outside their own factory They are. That (fortunately) doesn't stop people from still trying, and succeeding. Look up Louis Rossmann and Apple products for a analogous example.
- crooked-v 8y ago
  I think that analogy somewhat breaks down because, aside from action taken by specific companies, the non-repairability of modern laptops in general is heavily driven by the endless desire of consumers for lighter and thinner devices with more battery capacity. By contrast, for modern electric cars weight and size has so much margin that it's basically a non-issue aside from the complications of fitting the battery into the chassis. It means that car companies have far, far less of a genuine engineering-driven reason to make devices that are impossible to repair at home or in small shops.

InTheArena 8y ago

I've watched his videos, and they are awesome.. but I am also somewhat surprised he hasn't electrocuted himself yet. All that said, his point is 100% on base. right now Tesla has gotten around without addressing right-to-repair issues. The model 3 is supposed to be a mainstream car. One of the reasons I have not pulled the trigger yet on my deposit, is because I am not convinced that anyone other then Tesla can repair it.

Waterluvian 8y ago
I watch this guy on YouTube, Louis Rossman, who fixes MacBooks. This reminds me exactly of his experiences. Macs are increasingly more difficult to repair and Apple generally wants to own the repair experience so they can funnel you towards a new purchase. Cars these days can run half a million miles in their lifetime if you treat them right and replace the pieces that break. Could you imagine a future where cars followed the Apple model?
- joselreyes 8y ago
  I actually think Apple’s repair system is one of the reasons they have success. Most customers can’t repair their stuff so having a trustworthy place to go to is a really nice safety blanket. Compare that to most other phone or computer manufacturers where you have to ship your stuff or do it yourself and risk voiding warranties. I imagine eventually Tesla will offer an Apple-esque “Certified Repair” service option to increase their ability to help customers with non-Tesla employees.
  - pietroglyph 8y ago
    I think the biggest issue with Apple's "repair" model is the amount of repairing that actually goes on. As a result of the increasing board integration of Apple computers and Apple's repair policy, a single resistor kicking the bucket means a full board replacement that will set you back a good fraction of what you paid for the computer in the first place, at an Apple certified repair center. Even worse is the outright hostility to 3rd party repair shops who instead opt for (more difficult), but ultimately less expensive (for the custom and the environment) component-level repair. You won't be getting any documentation or spare parts from Apple.

soared 8y ago

Who is this guy? I feel like you'd have to a be an electrical engineer, ex-bmw mechanic, who got rich and is now wealthy + retired.

mahart 8y ago
I've watched a bunch of his videos a while back and he said he had a day job in the tech industry. But basically he's said he wanted a tesla without paying $$$ so he bought some salvage vehicles and did it as a hobby. But with his channel starting to take off he might have transitioned to a youtube career. At this point he's probably funding a lot of it via youtube income.
- spike021 8y ago
  Reminds me of Chris, who has the B is for Build channel on YT. He started rebuilding a few salvage cars (BRZ, Lotus Evora) on the side while being a software engineer. Ended up losing that job and now does YT full time basically rebuilding salvage or almost salvage cars.

backtoyoujim 8y ago

I wonder if that is how Singer Vehicle Design got started making the best Porsches available for the road.

stcredzero 8y ago

One reads that Elon Musk has an interest in colonizing Mars. If Mars ever has a government, they'd better have some Right to Repair laws! Those would me more like, you'd-better-not-be-jerking-your-customers-around-and-let-them-repair-vital-equipment-or-people-might-freakin-die laws!

beamatronic 8y ago

Is this Rich Rebuilds? I discovered his videos recently. I found them really interesting and hilarious. I get the impression he does take appropriate safety precautions.

ChuckMcM 8y ago

That was fun to watch, I really admire the guy for his dedication to learning all the various bits of the car. He should publish a manual and sell it to support his web channel, I'd buy a copy!

hardwaresofton 8y ago

> Tesla's stance on rebuilding vehicles is that only they should be able to do it I had no idea they had this kind of stance -- is there any more nuance to it? If there isn't I cannot conscience supporting Tesla in any way again -- there's no way I'm going to help a company that disregards/works against right-to-repair get a monopoly. Just the same reason I avoid buying iDevices.

delhanty 8y ago
Probably it's not nuanced - John Deere like to do this sort of thing too. See my comment from March 2017: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13929078 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13929078
greglindahl 8y ago
Tesla doesn't do body work, it's all done by 3rd parties. But if you don't buy iDevices for that reason, you probably don't want a Tesla. Me, the one time I broke a screen, I used a 3rd party repair service, no problems.
ehsankia 8y ago
There's a quote from Tesla spokesperson at the end of the video: > Tesla continued that its customers are free to do what they want with their cars, including doing their own work to repair salvaged vehicles. They added that there are significant safety concerns when salvaged Teslas are repaired by unqualified mechanics, as these vehicles could pose a danger to both the mechanic and other drivers on the road. Basically, already every single time a Tesla gets a car accident, the news loves to jump all over it. Now if you had people doing a half-ass job and making a defective repair, then the bad press would fall on Tesla.

avelis 8y ago

I have been watching his channel when it was called Car Gurus and he had to change it. What is so awesome is how he is pushing the needle for the right to repair argument. As a TSLA stock holder I want him to continue to push that POV. It will only be a matter of time.

jaimex2 8y ago

I wonder if things would be different if there wasn't such a big media spotlight on Tesla. Having more repair shops would be a help to them, they are barely coping.

djaychela 8y ago

I've watched Rich Rebuilds for a while, and it's one of about 5 YouTube channels I've bothered to subscribe to. I like Rich and the content in the videos (for the most part, aside from the rants which aren't my favourites). I watched this yesterday and was pleasantly surprised at the angle of the video - I expected it to be a little more snarky about what he's done, but it presented a much better angle in terms of the right to repair that Tesla clearly fights against. I'm often told that I'm an Elon Musk fanboy by friends and family - I love what SpaceX is doing, and I want Tesla to succeed (because I'm convinced that the sooner we get ICE-powered vehicles off the roads, the better), but I have spent much of the last 30 years fixing my own vehicles; I built my first motorbike from a written-off bike, and I've owned hundreds of cars. I built my own rally cars and competed in one of them at WRC level. I love fixing things, and as soon as I found out (via Rich Rebuilds, or CarGuru as it was then) about Tesla's policy, my opinion on them changed completely; I still want them to succeed, but I can't imagine ever owning one because of their stance (even though it probably wouldn't affect me, even if I ever did own one, which is unlikely to say the least). There are a number of people on here taking what appears to me to be a straw man on the 'right to repair' angle - talking about 'repairing the software yourself'. I don't think this is what most people are talking about (and it's certainly not what Rich is talking about). It's about Tesla's restrictive policy over spare parts and repairing vehicles - not down to software level, but to the level that Rich is working at - like-for-like replacement of entire components. If a vehicle is on Tesla's list, then they will not sell you parts. And you can't get pattern parts in the way you can for most ICE vehicles - I'd imagine this is because the supply chain/pool is much smaller (Tesla is a small, niche manufacturer in reality) and they have clauses in place to stop the sale of these parts via other channels. And this is just wrong. There is no more danger in the straight like-for-like replacement of a motor unit or inverter than there is in any other competent repair. My experience of dealer repair work has been limited, but when it has taken place, it has been poor. The mechanics in question have been of the 'follow a fixed set of instructions in the order given' type, not seeming to know their trade well and get straight to the point. I was quoted over £2000 in labour costs possible to diagnose a problem with a Ford Focus I owned (car was about 5 years old at the time) - 'because we have to do the diagnosis step by step, even if it's obvious it's not that'. Had I taken it there, it would have been the full price as it was one of the last things on the list (small end failure, which was common on that particular engine). Service in the UK is incredibly bad for the most part, and I've seen friends have terrible (and expensive) experiences at franchised, approved garages, with multi-thousand costs being generated to replace parts without any improvement (A friend's BMW X5 is springing to mind). There is no significant risk to anyone if this kind of repair is carried out by competent personnel. And there are plenty of competent personnel about who would be able to do everything normally needed to repair a Tesla. The service documentation alone would allow that to happen (factory service manuals are generally a goldmine of information, but also written in such simple terms that nearly anyone could follow them), and the supply of the right parts to anyone who wants them - at a price without a prohibitive mark-up - should be a right. I'm saddened that Tesla is instead following a path trying to lock people in to their ecosystem of service - and even more so when they refuse to carry out mandated safety upgrades (such as the airbag mentioned in the piece). Oh, for anyone who thinks that Rich is really safe.... just do a bit of research into 'safety wood'!

perl4ever 8y ago

It just occurred to me that there may be another thing I don't see yet mentioned in this thread that gets in the way of repairing Teslas - from what I've read, they make constant changes in their cars during model years, so how do you know which exact parts you have in your car? I bet it's underdocumented. I have been trying to fix various things in an old car from the 80s, and one of the more annoying aspects is trying to get a replacement part and finding there is a rare variant that I need but has the same part number as the common one. There are also a lot of parts that don't have diagrams or part numbers at all, because they weren't anticipated to be serviced normally.

chaboud 8y ago
It's impressive to me that they can make running changes (like reducing the number of spot welds in the Model 3) without having to retest/recertify.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  That's not that impressive, in fact it tends to be a signal of poor design. The more changes to a model in a short time the worse it will be later to find parts and to keep the car running. It will also end up being more expensive. That's why it is generally good practice to avoid the first year of a new model (unless you are into collecting low serial number cars...). And if a manufacturer that is facing a financial issue would start to reduce the number of welds on the cars (which you would assume engineering put there for a reason) I would be very suspicious, especially if they did not retest and recertify.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
    Welds are actually weak points as far as I'm aware. Perhaps reducing them and using another method (usually adhesive) is actually stronger overall. It can also reduce weight. It's why a lot of high end cars these days use bonded aluminium panels instead of spot welds.
    - 8y ago

dazhbog 8y ago

Check out his youtube videos! Especially the ones he's playing the flute!

drewmol 8y ago

Tesla seems to be  toeing a line between: A) manufacturing vehicles for sale as an exclusively-electric auto maker... and B) manufacturing the necessary hardware, but then just collecting an equiptment-fee. This equipment is required, but enables use of their smart-car-as-a-service driving subscription (Terms and Conditions subjuct to change without notice). I wonder if some Tesla cars will end up like old set-top boxes for some paid Satellite TV service (DirecTV): utterly useless, illegal to circumvent due to Tesla IP violations required, but still yours to keep!

jacquesm 8y ago
'toeing'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line
- goldenkey 8y ago
  Thanks, I didn't write the previous comment but had no idea that it was "toe the line" instead of "tow the line." Idioms.....why do they always seem to beat around the bush... ;-)
  - goodcanadian 8y ago
    Even then, I think it's the wrong idiom. To me, toeing the line means following the rules or maybe supporting the story . . . toeing the company line, for example. I would suggest, rather, that Tesla is walking a fine line between . . .
  - vinceguidry 8y ago
    You can usually work out which homophones make up an idiom just by thinking visually about what those homophones would mean in the idiom. "Towing a line" gives you a visual of hauling a cable out to something or someone, perhaps the meaning of that idiom, if it were a thing, would be to save someone. Toeing a line invokes using your foot for, well, something related to a line. Is it an actual line or a metaphorical line? What's the line going to be used for after you toe it? The idiom is usually used in the sense of getting really close to some imaginary, arbitrary boundary. Even if you don't know the history behind the saying, that it's something that boys used to do to mess with each other, you can usually rule one of them out and get pretty close to the actual history / meaning of the idiom. When I first came across it, I 'knew' it was 'toe' and I would have been pretty surprised if it had actually been 'tow'. What I didn't know was the precise thing that the end of the foot was actually supposed to be doing to the supposed line.

joeblau 8y ago

Uncle Rich! I found Rich's YouTube channel[1] about a year ago when I got my Model X and it's been funny and educational. It definitely sheds a lot of light on how new Tesla is at making cars, but also how much further ahead some of their manufacturing choices are then other auto brands. It's definitely got strong language and he takes lots of shots at Tesla and Tesla Fanboys, but if you've got time to watch the story of someone taking apart a car, then it's amazing. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfV0_wbjG8KJADuZT2ct4SA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfV0_wbjG8KJADuZT2ct4SA

drewg123 8y ago

I've been watching him for quite a while. One the most interesting videos is where he gets his rebuilt Tesla (Delores) to supercharge. On the face of it, that does not sound like a big deal. However, it is much more interesting than that. It basically exposes the fact that supercharging is managed by client-side security. Tesla has all kinds of restrictions on what vehicles are allowed to supercharge, and whether or not you'll be charged a fee. For example, my friend's S is a 2015 with supercharging that transfers with the vehicle, so that if he sells it to you, you can still supercharge. My 2017 X has free supercharging that is restricted to the first owner, so if I sell you my car, you'll end up paying for supercharging. And if either one of our cars is wrecked, and Tesla finds out about it, they will not allow the cars to supercharge at all until they are "recertified" by Tesla, at a cost of thousands of dollars. If you buy a salvage Tesla, I'd suggest that (unless you've rooted it, and know how to re-enable supercharging) that you just pull the sim card, and don't let it connect to your wifi. That will (hopefully) preserve your ability to supercharge at the price of making the giant touchscreen basically useless.

e40 8y ago

I don't have a Tesla nor had I heard of Rich before. What an awesome dude. I just signed up for his Patreon. In case others want to: https://www.patreon.com/RichRebuilds/overview https://www.patreon.com/RichRebuilds/overview