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Ya, I've been following all this drama since the vgo proposal and I also find it somewhat rich. I mean in a way didn't the `dep` folks do exactly the same thing
by nicpottier 8y ago
Ya, I've been following all this drama since the vgo proposal and I also find it somewhat rich. I mean in a way didn't the `dep` folks do exactly the same thing to the `glide` and other existing solutions? At some point you just have to say, hey, you've done good work but I think another approach is better. They did that to glide and Russ did that to them.
Note also that he doesn't dispute that Russ tried to bring them into the fold with his concerns and direction but they rejected his arguments. That's a fight they should have known they were going to lose.
Maintainers / BDFLs get the final say, that's just how it is. Just because there is a large community does not mean they get the final say, just because you put in a lot of work does not mean you get the final say. The reason BDFLs are in the position of making that decision is because they have proven through the accumulation of their previous decisions that they get it right more than they get it wrong. And that's the very reason there is a community around them at all.
If you walk into ANY project, public or private, open sourced or closed, and ignore the lead's objections when you go off in a direction they don't agree with, then yes, you are very likely in for some wasted work. That's just how the world works.
On another note I hope this is the last we hear about all this, please lets move on.
- stcredzero 8y agoYa, I've been following all this drama since the vgo proposal and I also find it somewhat rich...On another note I hope this is the last we hear about all this, please lets move on. I only became aware of this by going to a meetup and seeing a talk. I just want something that's workable and not broken. The reason BDFLs are in the position of making that decision is because they have proven through the accumulation of their previous decisions that they get it right more than they get it wrong. And that's the very reason there is a community around them at all. This is the same reason given for totalitarian rule generally. The problem is that the dictator has enough power to make a big mistake, committing the entire communitiy's resources. In this position, if you can avoid making a decision, you should. Toyota doesn't simply make such decisions by fiat. Instead, they have a competition. I mean in a way didn't the `dep` folks do exactly the same thing to the `glide` and other existing solutions? Was the competition squashed?
- nicpottier 8y agoNote that Russ isn't going against the community, he's just going against `dep`. Most of the community, myself included is pretty psyched about go modules. Note also that the risk you propose for bad decisions is mitigated for Open Source. If that decision really turns out to be so bad then it will be forked and a wiser leader(s) will have their shot at decision making. `dep` isn't squashed! You are free to continue using it, it's just that they likely won't find much audience anymore.
- munificent 8y ago> If that decision really turns out to be so bad then it will be forked and a wiser leader(s) will have their shot at decision making. No, that doesn't work in practice. The network effects are so insanely dominant in open source projects that forks are nowhere near an efficient market.
- stcredzero 8y agoThe network effects are so insanely dominant in open source projects that forks are nowhere near an efficient market. The market doesn't have to be anywhere near efficient. It just has to allow any escape whatsoever from a death-march/death spiral.
- Vendan 8y agoIt has literally happened before. Look into the node.js/io.js fork.
- nicpottier 8y agoOpen Source is absolutely chock full of examples of this.
- ansible 8y agoAnd sometimes the new community wins out over the existing one. LibreOffice vs. OpenOffice, X.org vs. XFree86, etc.