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They may be dumb or an asshole or wrong about X, but they're still your brother/sister. I don't mean Trump, I mean Americans, being a subset of humanity. At the

They may be dumb or an asshole or wrong about X, but they're still your brother/sister. I don't mean Trump, I mean Americans, being a subset of humanity. At the very least, they're people you're better off working with in whatever common ground you have, than fighting endless and unwinnable battles about someone being stupid or ugly as a distraction from how badly things are, and how muddy and muddled the road forward is... it's really incredibly sad to see that nation so torn up. Not over nothing, but also not over anything that warrants this, and the way it's treated. Just like Brexit, I get no joy from it. It just sucks, and instead of a growing opportunity, it's just used for more wounds. As if people really want it to get even worse; because whatever the lips say, that's what the hands are doing says. How much has been achieved by the eye rolling and talking about "the other side" (no matter by whom and at what "side") since Trump was elected? What has been rationally been recognized as a problem, and what steps have been taken towards solutions? Where have people made an effort to hear others, instead of their bubble? I'm sure there are people outside the limelight who actually did do these things, but from what I see being surfaced most of the time, it's kind of a shit show. I'm sure it's a scene in a movie or ten, where parents have a real bad fight, but then realize that screaming at each other is something their kid should not see, because regardless of who is right, or who wins, or whatever, seeing them sink so low can do a whole other set of damage. This feels like that movie for me, for too long now. Be wary of things that are hard or impossible to come back from. I'm not one who gives a crap about badges or offices, but even I feel uneasy how the office of the President of the US is being damaged by this. I say by this, not just "by Trump". You have to think of the future, too. And by this I do not mean "no criticism", that is 100% not my point. Adults do have discussions, and they fight, but being demeaning about it is orthogonal to that and not good ever, in no context. And also no matter how wrong or dumb or how much of an asshole someone is. Actually: The more they are, the more you should "win", and the more important it is for that to be clean and fair, and for that to allow them a route to "join the win" by actually coming around from their own volition and voluntary insight. I'm not American, I never was in America and there has been no president during my lifetime I really liked. I could not care, but I do. Because "any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind" as John Donne wrote, and this can't go on. You are better than this, all of you. Roughly speaking, "you" invented being better at this, ffs. So take care, of yourself and each other, and as in actually do that. Please. Sorry for it being so jumbled, not sorry for ranting... I adamantly believe in the importance of this thing I don't know how to put well.

pjc50 8y ago
The business of demeaning the President has been going on for years, dating back to the Clinton administration at least; there was a real scandal (sexual harassment of an intern) among a huge cloud of guilt-by-association scandals (Whitewater etc) that were held onto despite being cleared by thorough investigations. Then we had all those people trying to claim that Obama wasn't born in the US and was therefore disqualified? Anyone remember Reagan and his astrologer, and probably Altzheimer's? > I'm sure it's a scene in a movie or ten, where parents have a real bad fight, but then realize that screaming at each other is something their kid should not see, because regardless of who is right, or who wins, or whatever, seeing them sink so low can do a whole other set of damage. In real life this often ends with one parent deciding, again and again, that they have to give up and take the abuse because otherwise they're going to be beaten. Or murdered.
plaidfuji 8y ago
Hacker News is a welcome respite from traditional American news sources whose sole purpose today is wall-to-wall Trump coverage. Leave it to HN commenters to find a long-term thoughtful and productive point of view when a Trump story finally does make it up through the ranks. I know when you say "brother/sister" you're talking in the abstract, but the problem is that intra-familial political divides are increasingly uncommon, I.e. Trump voters are unlikely to even be my third cousin. A recent precinct-by-precinct 2016 election map published by the NYT showed that it's likely I'd have to drive up to 30 miles to find a precinct that swung the other way, so they're not my neighbor either. Major protests, which remain one of the more productive tools of political communication because they require actual human effort, happen in large cities and end up preaching to the choir, effectively. The "Other Side" receives news of the worst elements of these protests in coverage designed to make them angry, /because that's what news coverage today is designed to do/. People read the news to get mad about something. They click on the story that's likely to have the juiciest arguments. And it's not the media's fault - yes they choose what to publish, but they have to maximize profits and therefore clicks. I think what people don't get, or keep forgetting or whatever, is that Trump won because of the Midwest. Yes, he carried a bunch of traditional red states that were going to vote for him anyway. But he won because he convinced swaths of workers in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania that he would fight harder to keep their jobs around than his opponent. And he's basically stuck to that promise, whether or not what he's doing will actually help them in the long term, or if he even understands the basic tenets of global trade (as this article seems to insinuate he doesn't). These are the people who are being alienated by Democrats' efforts to unseat Trump at any cost, instead of pushing their own solution to the changing economic environment. What they'll likely say in 2020 is "so he's racist and sexist- but I still have a better chance with him than you." As much as I'm nervous about the country being run by somebody who appears to be incompetent, ego-driven and lacking long-term strategy, I'm more nervous about what the left's candidate will be in 2024. In other words, if Trump is the response to 8 years of Obama, what will the response to 8 years of Trump look like? Not sure where this is going so I'm gonna stop.

pjc50 8y ago

The business of demeaning the President has been going on for years, dating back to the Clinton administration at least; there was a real scandal (sexual harassment of an intern) among a huge cloud of guilt-by-association scandals (Whitewater etc) that were held onto despite being cleared by thorough investigations. Then we had all those people trying to claim that Obama wasn't born in the US and was therefore disqualified? Anyone remember Reagan and his astrologer, and probably Altzheimer's? > I'm sure it's a scene in a movie or ten, where parents have a real bad fight, but then realize that screaming at each other is something their kid should not see, because regardless of who is right, or who wins, or whatever, seeing them sink so low can do a whole other set of damage. In real life this often ends with one parent deciding, again and again, that they have to give up and take the abuse because otherwise they're going to be beaten. Or murdered.

plaidfuji 8y ago

Hacker News is a welcome respite from traditional American news sources whose sole purpose today is wall-to-wall Trump coverage. Leave it to HN commenters to find a long-term thoughtful and productive point of view when a Trump story finally does make it up through the ranks. I know when you say "brother/sister" you're talking in the abstract, but the problem is that intra-familial political divides are increasingly uncommon, I.e. Trump voters are unlikely to even be my third cousin. A recent precinct-by-precinct 2016 election map published by the NYT showed that it's likely I'd have to drive up to 30 miles to find a precinct that swung the other way, so they're not my neighbor either. Major protests, which remain one of the more productive tools of political communication because they require actual human effort, happen in large cities and end up preaching to the choir, effectively. The "Other Side" receives news of the worst elements of these protests in coverage designed to make them angry, /because that's what news coverage today is designed to do/. People read the news to get mad about something. They click on the story that's likely to have the juiciest arguments. And it's not the media's fault - yes they choose what to publish, but they have to maximize profits and therefore clicks. I think what people don't get, or keep forgetting or whatever, is that Trump won because of the Midwest. Yes, he carried a bunch of traditional red states that were going to vote for him anyway. But he won because he convinced swaths of workers in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania that he would fight harder to keep their jobs around than his opponent. And he's basically stuck to that promise, whether or not what he's doing will actually help them in the long term, or if he even understands the basic tenets of global trade (as this article seems to insinuate he doesn't). These are the people who are being alienated by Democrats' efforts to unseat Trump at any cost, instead of pushing their own solution to the changing economic environment. What they'll likely say in 2020 is "so he's racist and sexist- but I still have a better chance with him than you." As much as I'm nervous about the country being run by somebody who appears to be incompetent, ego-driven and lacking long-term strategy, I'm more nervous about what the left's candidate will be in 2024. In other words, if Trump is the response to 8 years of Obama, what will the response to 8 years of Trump look like? Not sure where this is going so I'm gonna stop.