4 ms·

Zotero really need more advertisement. I prefer Zotero over Mendeley, but Mandaley seems to advertise much more to university.

msaharia 8y ago
Also, Mendeley was bought by Elsevier. Zotero is open source.
Sol- 8y ago
Even though I also like Zotero better because of its open nature, I prefer Mendeley in practice mostly because it has a decent Android client where you can just sync all your PDFs and read them on a tablet or something. Seemed a bit more involved to do the same with Zotero (where it seemed there were only minimal Android clients quickly hacked together). Mendeley also has 2GB storage, so that's nice for personal use and paper/book syncing. That said, if I had to collaborate in a larger group I'd surely choose Zotero instead of locking everybody into some proprietary ecosystem. But for personal use I definitely don't feel that I'm enabling or supporting Elsevier somehow in using their freeware.
- dotancohen 8y ago
  > I definitely don't feel that I'm enabling or > supporting Elsevier somehow in using their freeware. If instead of using Elsevier's freeware you were to file bug reports - not code just reports - on Zotero then you could be helping improve the software. And when you suddenly _do_ need to collaborate you'll find that you are using the same tool you have gotten used to, instead of the dissonance of using a tool that is similar-but-not-quite what you know. Go ahead and use Zotero, check out the two or three leading Android clients, and file bugs. You've got these clients currently: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gimranov.zandy.app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gimranov.z... https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=computer.benjamin.zotdr0id https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=computer.benja... https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.ezbio.zotez https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.ezbio.zote...
  - maccard 8y ago
    I've not got any experience with Zotero, but I do with Mendeley. Unfortunately, the apps you've linked above suffer the same issues as many OSS alternatives to commercial software. For a start, the reviews on the Mendeley client [0] are far better than any of the three alternatives you've provided. All three of them have the same complaints - Functionality/UI leave a lot to be desired. My experience of this fragmentation (KeePass) is you have N clients which offer slightly different features, but none of them offer the same features that the commercial offering offers, meaning people who rely on one or more of the specific features of the commercial offering will never switch. [0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mendeley&hl=en_GB https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mendeley&h...
- tonyg 8y ago
  I have found syncing the PDFs via Dropbox works fine. Zotero puts them in a Dropbox folder with a reasonable filename, and then the regular embedded Dropbox PDF reader does an OK job on my phone/tablet. It'd be nice to have the database synced, though. Funny how "synchronization of replicas of information", for all its centrality to modern internet-based life, isn't something that our operating systems provide as a system service.
  - PaulRobinson 8y ago
    > Funny how "synchronization of replicas of information", for all its centrality to modern internet-based life, isn't something that our operating systems provide as a system service. Just FYI on that front, macOS has iCloud, which does this. I put something on my Desktop, it appears on all my machines. I can access it from my phone, etc. etc. - it's basically a built-in Dropbox.
    - tonyg 8y ago
      That's great for synchronising files. It's not really the kind of thing that would help with synchronisation of, say, contact databases, email folders, shared text documents, calendars, bibliographies, photo archives, etc etc. It'd be interesting to consider an OS-wide API for flexible data synchronisation and conflict resolution.
IshKebab 8y ago
Mendeley was very popular (until its unfortunate acquisition) because of its excellent PDF full text search and the ability to automatically get metadata (i.e. a bibtex entry) from PDFs. Can Zotero do that?
- selimthegrim 8y ago
  Yes, I use that function in Zotero all the time.
  - nanna 8y ago
    Why not just use pdfgrep?
    - jhbadger 8y ago
      Because the info often isn't in the pdf file itself (at least in a parseable way). Typically metadata readers figure out what the paper is and then goes to a bibliographic database to pull out the full title, author list, page info, etc.
tonyg 8y ago
I have just recently switched away from Mendeley because of an insanely user-hostile thing they've just done to lock-in their users. Mendeley has started encrypting users' bibliography files (from version 19), claiming variously that encryption is required by GDPR (?!?!) and/or that it improves security on a multiuser system. (Neither of these excuses holds water.) The keys are not available to the users whose data were encrypted. The encryption is completely proprietary and there are no tools available for letting users work with the now-encrypted databases. Previously, users could access their data by running `sqlite3` on a plain sqlite database in their profile directory. Not only did users take advantage of this, but a small ecosystem of third-party tools and scripts had sprung up to help people take control over automating repetitive tasks in managing their bibliographies. Well, now Mendeley has encrypted everything, that's the end of that. No more tools and scripts. No more user control over one's own data and workflow. There's now only the limited (for my purposes, useless) "export database" facility in the client. It only exports a limited subset of the fields in the database. Alternatively, I could register as a developer, get an API key, and develop a full web-style app to get hold of my own data. ("Did you just tell me to go fuck myself, Bob?") The Zotero people suspect that Mendeley's move was retaliatory for Zotero's implementation of import-from-Mendeley [1]. The Mendeley twitter account has dismissed this - literally - as being "fake news" [2]. Super weird. I reverse-engineered the encryption they'd put in, in order to export my own data and migrate to Zotero. I wrote up the instructions for others to follow [3], but it's really not easy, not portable, not reliable, and not something users should ever have to do just to get access to their own data! Anyway, at this point, I don't trust Mendeley as far as I can throw them, and I thoroughly regret ever recommending to my friends that they use the tool. After nine years of using Mendeley, though, I've switched to Zotero, and it's at least as good, and in some ways better. Plus it's properly open. [1] https://www.zotero.org/support/kb/mendeley_import https://www.zotero.org/support/kb/mendeley_import [2] https://twitter.com/mendeley_com/status/1006919608471818240 https://twitter.com/mendeley_com/status/1006919608471818240 and several others. Really, the official twitter responses from Mendeley to people discussing this issue were bizarrely dismissive and mocking. [3] https://eighty-twenty.org/2018/06/13/mendeley-encrypted-db https://eighty-twenty.org/2018/06/13/mendeley-encrypted-db
- toxik 8y ago

msaharia 8y ago

Also, Mendeley was bought by Elsevier. Zotero is open source.

Sol- 8y ago

Even though I also like Zotero better because of its open nature, I prefer Mendeley in practice mostly because it has a decent Android client where you can just sync all your PDFs and read them on a tablet or something. Seemed a bit more involved to do the same with Zotero (where it seemed there were only minimal Android clients quickly hacked together). Mendeley also has 2GB storage, so that's nice for personal use and paper/book syncing. That said, if I had to collaborate in a larger group I'd surely choose Zotero instead of locking everybody into some proprietary ecosystem. But for personal use I definitely don't feel that I'm enabling or supporting Elsevier somehow in using their freeware.

dotancohen 8y ago
> I definitely don't feel that I'm enabling or > supporting Elsevier somehow in using their freeware. If instead of using Elsevier's freeware you were to file bug reports - not code just reports - on Zotero then you could be helping improve the software. And when you suddenly _do_ need to collaborate you'll find that you are using the same tool you have gotten used to, instead of the dissonance of using a tool that is similar-but-not-quite what you know. Go ahead and use Zotero, check out the two or three leading Android clients, and file bugs. You've got these clients currently: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gimranov.zandy.app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gimranov.z... https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=computer.benjamin.zotdr0id https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=computer.benja... https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.ezbio.zotez https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.ezbio.zote...
- maccard 8y ago
  I've not got any experience with Zotero, but I do with Mendeley. Unfortunately, the apps you've linked above suffer the same issues as many OSS alternatives to commercial software. For a start, the reviews on the Mendeley client [0] are far better than any of the three alternatives you've provided. All three of them have the same complaints - Functionality/UI leave a lot to be desired. My experience of this fragmentation (KeePass) is you have N clients which offer slightly different features, but none of them offer the same features that the commercial offering offers, meaning people who rely on one or more of the specific features of the commercial offering will never switch. [0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mendeley&hl=en_GB https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mendeley&h...
tonyg 8y ago
I have found syncing the PDFs via Dropbox works fine. Zotero puts them in a Dropbox folder with a reasonable filename, and then the regular embedded Dropbox PDF reader does an OK job on my phone/tablet. It'd be nice to have the database synced, though. Funny how "synchronization of replicas of information", for all its centrality to modern internet-based life, isn't something that our operating systems provide as a system service.
- PaulRobinson 8y ago
  > Funny how "synchronization of replicas of information", for all its centrality to modern internet-based life, isn't something that our operating systems provide as a system service. Just FYI on that front, macOS has iCloud, which does this. I put something on my Desktop, it appears on all my machines. I can access it from my phone, etc. etc. - it's basically a built-in Dropbox.
  - tonyg 8y ago
    That's great for synchronising files. It's not really the kind of thing that would help with synchronisation of, say, contact databases, email folders, shared text documents, calendars, bibliographies, photo archives, etc etc. It'd be interesting to consider an OS-wide API for flexible data synchronisation and conflict resolution.

IshKebab 8y ago

Mendeley was very popular (until its unfortunate acquisition) because of its excellent PDF full text search and the ability to automatically get metadata (i.e. a bibtex entry) from PDFs. Can Zotero do that?

selimthegrim 8y ago
Yes, I use that function in Zotero all the time.
- nanna 8y ago
  Why not just use pdfgrep?
  - jhbadger 8y ago
    Because the info often isn't in the pdf file itself (at least in a parseable way). Typically metadata readers figure out what the paper is and then goes to a bibliographic database to pull out the full title, author list, page info, etc.

tonyg 8y ago

I have just recently switched away from Mendeley because of an insanely user-hostile thing they've just done to lock-in their users. Mendeley has started encrypting users' bibliography files (from version 19), claiming variously that encryption is required by GDPR (?!?!) and/or that it improves security on a multiuser system. (Neither of these excuses holds water.) The keys are not available to the users whose data were encrypted. The encryption is completely proprietary and there are no tools available for letting users work with the now-encrypted databases. Previously, users could access their data by running `sqlite3` on a plain sqlite database in their profile directory. Not only did users take advantage of this, but a small ecosystem of third-party tools and scripts had sprung up to help people take control over automating repetitive tasks in managing their bibliographies. Well, now Mendeley has encrypted everything, that's the end of that. No more tools and scripts. No more user control over one's own data and workflow. There's now only the limited (for my purposes, useless) "export database" facility in the client. It only exports a limited subset of the fields in the database. Alternatively, I could register as a developer, get an API key, and develop a full web-style app to get hold of my own data. ("Did you just tell me to go fuck myself, Bob?") The Zotero people suspect that Mendeley's move was retaliatory for Zotero's implementation of import-from-Mendeley [1]. The Mendeley twitter account has dismissed this - literally - as being "fake news" [2]. Super weird. I reverse-engineered the encryption they'd put in, in order to export my own data and migrate to Zotero. I wrote up the instructions for others to follow [3], but it's really not easy, not portable, not reliable, and not something users should ever have to do just to get access to their own data! Anyway, at this point, I don't trust Mendeley as far as I can throw them, and I thoroughly regret ever recommending to my friends that they use the tool. After nine years of using Mendeley, though, I've switched to Zotero, and it's at least as good, and in some ways better. Plus it's properly open. [1] https://www.zotero.org/support/kb/mendeley_import https://www.zotero.org/support/kb/mendeley_import [2] https://twitter.com/mendeley_com/status/1006919608471818240 https://twitter.com/mendeley_com/status/1006919608471818240 and several others. Really, the official twitter responses from Mendeley to people discussing this issue were bizarrely dismissive and mocking. [3] https://eighty-twenty.org/2018/06/13/mendeley-encrypted-db https://eighty-twenty.org/2018/06/13/mendeley-encrypted-db

toxik 8y ago