6 ms·

Ask HN: If you could work a 3 day week for 60% pay, would you?

34 points by jamestimmins 8y ago

billconan 8y ago
maybe during certain time of the year. I'd prefer working 4 days per week (10 hours per day).
mars4rp 8y ago
I actually do that right now, it is fun. Do it if you don't need the money. On my day offs I do some coding for myself or just relax and do stuff I enjoy. But recently I didn't have a project and got board and felt unproductive sometimes. I guess it is time to start a new project ;)
msencenb 8y ago
I've been doing this for 2+ years now, and would do it again in a heartbeat with the right employer. If you are a software engineer, 60% pay is still solidly in the middle class range. The main upside is it gives you the freedom to invest in yourself without worrying about juggling freelance clients. Want to travel? Long weekends are the norm, and it takes less pto to get extended vacations (particularly if your boss lets you shuffle your schedule between weeks). Want to create a small business? You now have two days a week to do exactly that. This protects the weekend, and has saved me from the burnout of 'night & weekend' projects I've done in the past. My business is not ready to support me, but it is much farther along than any previous venture I've started. Want to do random educational activities? I've taken up bread making and taken several woodshop courses in the past year. I also read 50+ books a year. You have time. How do I negotiate this? I get a salary and health insurance. I do not get equity. I prefer it this way, as I'd rather bet on myself than equity in a venture backed startup. Just my two cents. Are there downsides? If you consider missed pay a downside, then yes there is. You won't be able to buy a house in the bay area. You won't be able to keep up with the jonses. You won't have a fancy car. If that matters to you, don't take the pay cut. Personally, anything above $70k a year is gravy. I'd like to maximize my free time after hitting that financial milestone to actually live my life. Let me know if I can help with specific questions.
- jamestimmins 8y ago
  That's awesome to hear. I'm curious how you were able to find this setup? Did you apply for full time jobs and ask for part time? Or did you start out full time and then make the change after demonstrating value?
  - msencenb 8y ago
    In this case I knew the CEO from school. The computer science department I studied in offered a couple cross-collaboration classes with the graduate school of business, which is how we met. I don't have much practical advice here, but my path was to have done good work in the past (reference checks), have an existing connection, and to not be afraid to negotiate hard at the beginning.
  - ponyous 8y ago
    I just got offered to work 4 days work weeks, I think potentially they would be ok with 3 days too. They are generally really flexible so I had time to prove myself in first term of the contract that I can deliver. I think my departments budget is running low so I think that helps - Contractors - work less, cost less. There are multiple things at play but most significant is demonstrating the value imo. I've been contracting for 2 years now and lately I strongly prioritised the company culture and personal interest in the company over money. Turns out this way I found a really good cultural fit and people I can work with. They invited me to join as permie and I am strongly considering it as it seems it would allow me to do the most in my life while living comfortably. Flexibility seems to cost you ~20% of your normal rate - at least I'm confident my daily rate could be 20% higher if I wanted elsewhere.
- sbjs 8y ago
  How do you find such awesome companies to work for?
ioddly 8y ago
Well, I currently freelance and take significant amounts of time off (although I generally work 40hrs/week when I am working). Freelancing of course comes with its own challenges and downsides, if I was offered a salaried gig that provided the level of flexibility I want, I'd probably take it. That aside, it's fantastic, I heartily recommend trying to find a way out of the 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year lifestyle.
phakding 8y ago
No. I have lots of hobbies and I travel a lot. But I usually go to places like Norway, or Nepal for trekking. Having 4 day weekends would mean nothing to me. I could use more vacation time. Instead of 5 weeks I get now, I could use 8 weeks of vacation time and I would sacrifice 1/12 of my salary for that.
- hacknat 8y ago
  I like this answer. I actually feel like a shorter work week is probably way less productive than just having more vacation time. When I have momentum on a project I love spending time killing it. When I’m wrapping up a project I would love to have the freedom to ramp the hours down (maybe 3 4 day weeks in a row) then take a 2 week vacation. If I could do that once a quarter I would be very happy.
- nataz 8y ago
  Agree with the above poster. I don't want longer weekends, I want to take chunks of "retirement" early. If I'm going to work on a business side project, travel, or continuing education, I would prefer a solid chunk of time to focus and accomplish something meaningful. My goal is to work 8 months a year at a job I enjoy.
oldmancoyote 8y ago
For about 20 years I worked four days a week for 80% pay. It worked for me, but I could never afford a family. On reflection, that was too high a price to pay.
- zerr 8y ago
  The trick is to not to be underpaid even before you switch to reduced loads.
balladeer 8y ago
I'd rather take more leave days that I can utilise in consolidated manner.
MarkCole 8y ago
I have not done this, but I have considered it. It is certainly appealing but I'd have to be sure I'd be putting the time to good use. i.e. Not playing video games all day. What I recently discovered is that in Germany you have a right to change your employment from full-time to part-time. So long as you've worked at the employer more than 6 months and the employer employs more than 15 people. The Employer can still turn you down under some conditions but sounds like it would be hard for them to justify. https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/tzbfg/__8.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/tzbfg/__8.html - The applicable law for anyone interested.
alban23 8y ago
I have worked 70% (3 days in the office and half a day from home) for the last year. I am employed in a big company (in Germany), so there are rules in place which allow me to do that (and return to full time). I think you need to think about your priorities and what is important to you before you decide. Upsides: - Much more free time to do what you want. For me it is sports, health, pursuing my own projects and trying to get my business of the ground. Nothing seems to make me more happy than to go jogging on Thursdays after lunch while everyone else is in the office for 1.5 more days. Downsides: - Being at a quite traditional company where people have similar values (finance house over 30 years, get a company car, have a nice bicycle, go a little on exotic vacation from time to time, vent about the free cafeteria food), they will not understand you and why you even want part time. I looked there at the statistics and some 90+% of who do part time are women. - I couldn't support a family alone. I am not even sure though that I could do that well if I have a full-time job though, especially not save up for retirement (this is another long discussion, I recommend reading Unscripted or Fastlane Millionaire by MJDemarco to get a more entrepreneuial view on that). - I am not sure how good it is for my career if I switched permanently to part time, especially switching job inside (and even more outside) the company seems much harder in that case. Next month I will switch back to full time (as my part time period was limited to a year) and see how I like that again, but if I don't like it, I can fortunately switch back to part time. In Germany there is a law that you can switch to part time, but soon there might even be a new law that you can switch back to full time again [1] [1]https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/gesetzentwurf-beschlossen-von-teilzeit-auf-vollzeit-unter.1766.de.html?dram:article_id=420294 https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/gesetzentwurf-beschlossen-von...
- r00fus 8y ago
  What's the pay like? Is it 70% of your full-time wage?
snarfybarfy 8y ago
I do this and everybody else in the office hates me when I wish them a nice weekend on wednesday afternoon:-) 50% (3 x 7h) would be even better, as I don't know anyone being productive 8+ hours a day.
dev_north_east 8y ago
I'd quite like a 4 day week but it's just not possible for me, I've got a family to provide for.
quickthrower2 8y ago
I did a 4 day week for a while, but hated the job enough that I needed that extra day just to compensate, and then getting 20% less kind of sucked. However for a good job I would love to do a 4 day or 3 day week.
cimmanom 8y ago
Yes, if I could continue to be paid that 60% but move to a lower cost-of-living area. Also, would have to keep health benefits, because USA.
itamarst 8y ago
I've worked 28 hours and 32-35 hours. It's great. Basic process as employee is either: A) Switch from full-time to part-time at current job. This is easiest. B) Apply to full time jobs, negotiate after you get an offer. Some resources if you're interested: 1. Different ways you can do it (from negotiation on the job to consulting): https://codewithoutrules.com/2018/07/03/35-hour-workweek/ https://codewithoutrules.com/2018/07/03/35-hour-workweek/ 2. Interview with someone who has negotiated 4-day workweeks for past 15 years: https://codewithoutrules.com/2018/01/08/part-time-programmer/ https://codewithoutrules.com/2018/01/08/part-time-programmer...
duxup 8y ago
Provided I get health insurance at a good price... yes. Sad how much of a consideration that is in the US.
AnimalMuppet 8y ago
No. My life is really expensive right now (kids at college), and I need the money.
sloaken 8y ago
In a heart beat. I use to work for a company that let you buy a week of vacation a year. They just reduced your pay accordingly. I would joke I would buy the whole year if I could - and keep the vacation, sick and holiday pay :-)
ezekg 8y ago
I have definitely daydreamed about this.

34 points by jamestimmins 8y ago

maybe during certain time of the year. I'd prefer working 4 days per week (10 hours per day).

I actually do that right now, it is fun. Do it if you don't need the money. On my day offs I do some coding for myself or just relax and do stuff I enjoy. But recently I didn't have a project and got board and felt unproductive sometimes. I guess it is time to start a new project ;)

msencenb 8y ago

I've been doing this for 2+ years now, and would do it again in a heartbeat with the right employer. If you are a software engineer, 60% pay is still solidly in the middle class range. The main upside is it gives you the freedom to invest in yourself without worrying about juggling freelance clients. Want to travel? Long weekends are the norm, and it takes less pto to get extended vacations (particularly if your boss lets you shuffle your schedule between weeks). Want to create a small business? You now have two days a week to do exactly that. This protects the weekend, and has saved me from the burnout of 'night & weekend' projects I've done in the past. My business is not ready to support me, but it is much farther along than any previous venture I've started. Want to do random educational activities? I've taken up bread making and taken several woodshop courses in the past year. I also read 50+ books a year. You have time. How do I negotiate this? I get a salary and health insurance. I do not get equity. I prefer it this way, as I'd rather bet on myself than equity in a venture backed startup. Just my two cents. Are there downsides? If you consider missed pay a downside, then yes there is. You won't be able to buy a house in the bay area. You won't be able to keep up with the jonses. You won't have a fancy car. If that matters to you, don't take the pay cut. Personally, anything above $70k a year is gravy. I'd like to maximize my free time after hitting that financial milestone to actually live my life. Let me know if I can help with specific questions.

jamestimmins 8y ago
That's awesome to hear. I'm curious how you were able to find this setup? Did you apply for full time jobs and ask for part time? Or did you start out full time and then make the change after demonstrating value?
- msencenb 8y ago
  In this case I knew the CEO from school. The computer science department I studied in offered a couple cross-collaboration classes with the graduate school of business, which is how we met. I don't have much practical advice here, but my path was to have done good work in the past (reference checks), have an existing connection, and to not be afraid to negotiate hard at the beginning.
- ponyous 8y ago
  I just got offered to work 4 days work weeks, I think potentially they would be ok with 3 days too. They are generally really flexible so I had time to prove myself in first term of the contract that I can deliver. I think my departments budget is running low so I think that helps - Contractors - work less, cost less. There are multiple things at play but most significant is demonstrating the value imo. I've been contracting for 2 years now and lately I strongly prioritised the company culture and personal interest in the company over money. Turns out this way I found a really good cultural fit and people I can work with. They invited me to join as permie and I am strongly considering it as it seems it would allow me to do the most in my life while living comfortably. Flexibility seems to cost you ~20% of your normal rate - at least I'm confident my daily rate could be 20% higher if I wanted elsewhere.
sbjs 8y ago
How do you find such awesome companies to work for?

ioddly 8y ago

Well, I currently freelance and take significant amounts of time off (although I generally work 40hrs/week when I am working). Freelancing of course comes with its own challenges and downsides, if I was offered a salaried gig that provided the level of flexibility I want, I'd probably take it. That aside, it's fantastic, I heartily recommend trying to find a way out of the 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year lifestyle.

phakding 8y ago

No. I have lots of hobbies and I travel a lot. But I usually go to places like Norway, or Nepal for trekking. Having 4 day weekends would mean nothing to me. I could use more vacation time. Instead of 5 weeks I get now, I could use 8 weeks of vacation time and I would sacrifice 1/12 of my salary for that.

hacknat 8y ago
I like this answer. I actually feel like a shorter work week is probably way less productive than just having more vacation time. When I have momentum on a project I love spending time killing it. When I’m wrapping up a project I would love to have the freedom to ramp the hours down (maybe 3 4 day weeks in a row) then take a 2 week vacation. If I could do that once a quarter I would be very happy.
nataz 8y ago
Agree with the above poster. I don't want longer weekends, I want to take chunks of "retirement" early. If I'm going to work on a business side project, travel, or continuing education, I would prefer a solid chunk of time to focus and accomplish something meaningful. My goal is to work 8 months a year at a job I enjoy.

oldmancoyote 8y ago

For about 20 years I worked four days a week for 80% pay. It worked for me, but I could never afford a family. On reflection, that was too high a price to pay.

zerr 8y ago
The trick is to not to be underpaid even before you switch to reduced loads.

balladeer 8y ago

I'd rather take more leave days that I can utilise in consolidated manner.

MarkCole 8y ago

I have not done this, but I have considered it. It is certainly appealing but I'd have to be sure I'd be putting the time to good use. i.e. Not playing video games all day. What I recently discovered is that in Germany you have a right to change your employment from full-time to part-time. So long as you've worked at the employer more than 6 months and the employer employs more than 15 people. The Employer can still turn you down under some conditions but sounds like it would be hard for them to justify. https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/tzbfg/__8.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/tzbfg/__8.html - The applicable law for anyone interested.

alban23 8y ago

I have worked 70% (3 days in the office and half a day from home) for the last year. I am employed in a big company (in Germany), so there are rules in place which allow me to do that (and return to full time). I think you need to think about your priorities and what is important to you before you decide. Upsides: - Much more free time to do what you want. For me it is sports, health, pursuing my own projects and trying to get my business of the ground. Nothing seems to make me more happy than to go jogging on Thursdays after lunch while everyone else is in the office for 1.5 more days. Downsides: - Being at a quite traditional company where people have similar values (finance house over 30 years, get a company car, have a nice bicycle, go a little on exotic vacation from time to time, vent about the free cafeteria food), they will not understand you and why you even want part time. I looked there at the statistics and some 90+% of who do part time are women. - I couldn't support a family alone. I am not even sure though that I could do that well if I have a full-time job though, especially not save up for retirement (this is another long discussion, I recommend reading Unscripted or Fastlane Millionaire by MJDemarco to get a more entrepreneuial view on that). - I am not sure how good it is for my career if I switched permanently to part time, especially switching job inside (and even more outside) the company seems much harder in that case. Next month I will switch back to full time (as my part time period was limited to a year) and see how I like that again, but if I don't like it, I can fortunately switch back to part time. In Germany there is a law that you can switch to part time, but soon there might even be a new law that you can switch back to full time again [1] [1]https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/gesetzentwurf-beschlossen-von-teilzeit-auf-vollzeit-unter.1766.de.html?dram:article_id=420294 https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/gesetzentwurf-beschlossen-von...

r00fus 8y ago
What's the pay like? Is it 70% of your full-time wage?

snarfybarfy 8y ago

I do this and everybody else in the office hates me when I wish them a nice weekend on wednesday afternoon:-) 50% (3 x 7h) would be even better, as I don't know anyone being productive 8+ hours a day.

dev_north_east 8y ago

I'd quite like a 4 day week but it's just not possible for me, I've got a family to provide for.

quickthrower2 8y ago

I did a 4 day week for a while, but hated the job enough that I needed that extra day just to compensate, and then getting 20% less kind of sucked. However for a good job I would love to do a 4 day or 3 day week.

cimmanom 8y ago

Yes, if I could continue to be paid that 60% but move to a lower cost-of-living area. Also, would have to keep health benefits, because USA.

itamarst 8y ago

I've worked 28 hours and 32-35 hours. It's great. Basic process as employee is either: A) Switch from full-time to part-time at current job. This is easiest. B) Apply to full time jobs, negotiate after you get an offer. Some resources if you're interested: 1. Different ways you can do it (from negotiation on the job to consulting): https://codewithoutrules.com/2018/07/03/35-hour-workweek/ https://codewithoutrules.com/2018/07/03/35-hour-workweek/ 2. Interview with someone who has negotiated 4-day workweeks for past 15 years: https://codewithoutrules.com/2018/01/08/part-time-programmer/ https://codewithoutrules.com/2018/01/08/part-time-programmer...

duxup 8y ago

Provided I get health insurance at a good price... yes. Sad how much of a consideration that is in the US.

AnimalMuppet 8y ago

No. My life is really expensive right now (kids at college), and I need the money.

sloaken 8y ago

In a heart beat. I use to work for a company that let you buy a week of vacation a year. They just reduced your pay accordingly. I would joke I would buy the whole year if I could - and keep the vacation, sick and holiday pay :-)

ezekg 8y ago

I have definitely daydreamed about this.