5 ms·

The ego on those people, it never fails to amaze me, condescendingly judging entire continents with thousands of years of history.

jmngomes 8y ago
What I read in such a statement is something along the lines of 'The people of the world do not act for my benefit and as I wish, therefore they are lame'. The hubris is as disgusting as the person's end game is obvious. This narrative actually reminds of https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/19/despot-disguise-democracy-james-mcgill-buchanan-totalitarian-capitalism https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/19/despot...
api 8y ago
I think you're succumbing to a distortion brought about by Thiel's wealth and status. Ordinary people make blanket oversimplified statements all the time but because these people don't have such elevated status those statements are not taken as seriously. As a result they don't sound quite so glib. As a general rule the higher your perceived status the more criticism you get. Another example would be Elon's Twitter spat. Some random dude on the Internet gets into it with another random dude on the Internet and calls him some bad names and nobody cares and nobody takes it seriously, but when it's two high-profile people it's an international story.
- salawat 8y ago
  "Noblesse oblige". Or if you prefer the more modern version, "With great power comes great responsibility." It isn't just a "distortion" or quirk. It's a social obligation that goes a long way back. The new American billionaire would do well to remember that their state of privilege comes with a whole new set of do's and don'ts that if they were smart they would pay a good deal more attention to. The fact that many of the founding father's abhorred the idea of an aristocratic class developing is beside the point. If these magnates wish not to live under the microscope, them mayhaps they should look into actually doing something about the positive feedback loops they have exploited to get to the point they are at. I'm sure the labor force would appreciate the wage growth, and an end to under the table non-compete clauses, and forced arbitration clauses.
  - api 8y ago
    Yes, that's what I mean, but here's the thing. Elon (for example) is nuevo riche. People who are brought up in elite families are usually taught noblesse oblige as part of their upbringing.
- notahacker 8y ago
  I think most people talk about politics most of the time in glib generalization, but the ego bit isn't just that he (reasonably) can expect people to take his dismissal of Europe seriously, but that he dismisses it by specifically lamenting its lack of opportunities for people like him and expressing contempt for its provision of opportunities for people that are not like him. Admittedly, he was responding to some pretty leading questions. More than anything else though, you have to admire the sheer chutzpah of someone dismissing the millions who do not share his politics as "establishment" in the middle of a discussion about his donations and advice to the President...
emsy 8y ago
Do you happen to live in Europe? I live in Germany and while the Silicon Valley mentality doesn’t look healthy or sane, Germany is surprisingly “lame” for such a successful country. The German economy relies too much on old industries and the politics here are unwilling to change anything about it, be it policies, funding or infrastructure.
- carlmr 8y ago
  I live in Germany as well and I think it's less the politics and more the culture. He's absolutely right that there's this extreme envy here when someone is successful. The US has the opposite which is unquestioning adulation of success. Germans are extremely risk averse as well. Unicorn companies (whether you need them or not) are high risk-high reward companies which usually come with something entirely new. Thiel is spot on on these two. I'd personally add that there's a huge problem if you work in industry here and your CV doesn't have a simple path that always pointed in the same direction. Experimentation is almost culturally forbidden.
  - VeejayRampay 8y ago
    Back to my initial point, there might be something to be told about Germany (or my country France for that matter) and its unwillingness to "take risks" (whatever that means), but Germany has been successful as an economy for how long now? You guys are masters in engineering, long-term planning, leading Europe in terms of denuclearization, the green economy, you can build pretty much anything if you put your mind to it and some guy from across the ocean is going to come and call that lame? Let's be serious a second, Europe has been around for a while now, I really don't like people who know very little of the context calling shots as to who's in and who's not like their opinion matters. It's like those articles with European "thinkers" condescending to the US because they don't have a proper social security safety net or affordable health care, it's ignorant.
    - repolfx 8y ago
      Maybe. German wages have been stagnant for a long time - the economy is successful at exporting things but not so much at raising living standards of ordinary Germans. Leading Europe in terms of denuclearization and the green economy, on the other hand, is just not an accurate read of the situation. Yes Merkel shut down the reactors and insisted on green energy. Now Germany emits more CO2 than before due to the need for lots of coal burning power stations to provide base load. From an environment perspective it was a disaster. Germany does well, for sure, I'm not criticising it. But it gets a lot of uncritical press too, especially with respect to its economy.

jmngomes 8y ago

What I read in such a statement is something along the lines of 'The people of the world do not act for my benefit and as I wish, therefore they are lame'. The hubris is as disgusting as the person's end game is obvious. This narrative actually reminds of https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/19/despot-disguise-democracy-james-mcgill-buchanan-totalitarian-capitalism https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/19/despot...

api 8y ago

I think you're succumbing to a distortion brought about by Thiel's wealth and status. Ordinary people make blanket oversimplified statements all the time but because these people don't have such elevated status those statements are not taken as seriously. As a result they don't sound quite so glib. As a general rule the higher your perceived status the more criticism you get. Another example would be Elon's Twitter spat. Some random dude on the Internet gets into it with another random dude on the Internet and calls him some bad names and nobody cares and nobody takes it seriously, but when it's two high-profile people it's an international story.

salawat 8y ago
"Noblesse oblige". Or if you prefer the more modern version, "With great power comes great responsibility." It isn't just a "distortion" or quirk. It's a social obligation that goes a long way back. The new American billionaire would do well to remember that their state of privilege comes with a whole new set of do's and don'ts that if they were smart they would pay a good deal more attention to. The fact that many of the founding father's abhorred the idea of an aristocratic class developing is beside the point. If these magnates wish not to live under the microscope, them mayhaps they should look into actually doing something about the positive feedback loops they have exploited to get to the point they are at. I'm sure the labor force would appreciate the wage growth, and an end to under the table non-compete clauses, and forced arbitration clauses.
- api 8y ago
  Yes, that's what I mean, but here's the thing. Elon (for example) is nuevo riche. People who are brought up in elite families are usually taught noblesse oblige as part of their upbringing.
notahacker 8y ago
I think most people talk about politics most of the time in glib generalization, but the ego bit isn't just that he (reasonably) can expect people to take his dismissal of Europe seriously, but that he dismisses it by specifically lamenting its lack of opportunities for people like him and expressing contempt for its provision of opportunities for people that are not like him. Admittedly, he was responding to some pretty leading questions. More than anything else though, you have to admire the sheer chutzpah of someone dismissing the millions who do not share his politics as "establishment" in the middle of a discussion about his donations and advice to the President...

emsy 8y ago

Do you happen to live in Europe? I live in Germany and while the Silicon Valley mentality doesn’t look healthy or sane, Germany is surprisingly “lame” for such a successful country. The German economy relies too much on old industries and the politics here are unwilling to change anything about it, be it policies, funding or infrastructure.

carlmr 8y ago
I live in Germany as well and I think it's less the politics and more the culture. He's absolutely right that there's this extreme envy here when someone is successful. The US has the opposite which is unquestioning adulation of success. Germans are extremely risk averse as well. Unicorn companies (whether you need them or not) are high risk-high reward companies which usually come with something entirely new. Thiel is spot on on these two. I'd personally add that there's a huge problem if you work in industry here and your CV doesn't have a simple path that always pointed in the same direction. Experimentation is almost culturally forbidden.
- VeejayRampay 8y ago
  Back to my initial point, there might be something to be told about Germany (or my country France for that matter) and its unwillingness to "take risks" (whatever that means), but Germany has been successful as an economy for how long now? You guys are masters in engineering, long-term planning, leading Europe in terms of denuclearization, the green economy, you can build pretty much anything if you put your mind to it and some guy from across the ocean is going to come and call that lame? Let's be serious a second, Europe has been around for a while now, I really don't like people who know very little of the context calling shots as to who's in and who's not like their opinion matters. It's like those articles with European "thinkers" condescending to the US because they don't have a proper social security safety net or affordable health care, it's ignorant.
  - repolfx 8y ago
    Maybe. German wages have been stagnant for a long time - the economy is successful at exporting things but not so much at raising living standards of ordinary Germans. Leading Europe in terms of denuclearization and the green economy, on the other hand, is just not an accurate read of the situation. Yes Merkel shut down the reactors and insisted on green energy. Now Germany emits more CO2 than before due to the need for lots of coal burning power stations to provide base load. From an environment perspective it was a disaster. Germany does well, for sure, I'm not criticising it. But it gets a lot of uncritical press too, especially with respect to its economy.