4 ms·

If the drug has a non trivial chance of making you lose your mind, and no way to identify that it will do that without losing your mind, it might not be appropr

If the drug has a non trivial chance of making you lose your mind, and no way to identify that it will do that without losing your mind, it might not be appropriate to ever use it, even if it works well for some people.

nradov 8y ago
That's why we have doctors, to weigh the risks versus benefits and prescribe treatment in the patient's best interest. I suspect that some of the worst side effects might have genetic risk factors. Hopefully researchers will determine whether people with particular genes are at greater risk of suffering mental problems from Ambien.
- codewithcheese 8y ago
  I think doctors as a group of individuals have proven they can't be trusted to weigh the risks. Consider the opiods epidemic as an example There must be better alternatives to get a good nights sleep. OP description of " I renewed prescriptions and would actually think ahead to the moment when I got to enjoy an Ambien." sound a lot like early stage addiction.
  - fhood 8y ago
    I am hella addicted to amazon then. Holy shit.
  - nradov 8y ago
    If we can't trust doctors then we have a much bigger problem that can't be solved by banning medicines which the FDA has determined to be safe and effective for treating certain conditions. While there's room for improvement in medical care standards, issues with a handful of drugs aren't sufficient evidence to provoke distrust. Most doctors get it right more often than wrong.
  - boomboomsubban 8y ago
    >Consider the opiods epidemic as an example The one where drug companies actively lied about both how addictive their drugs were and the best way that they should be prescribed? Doctors aren't perfect, and there are some that are truly terrible, but in general their opinion is trustworthy.
  - mikec3010 8y ago
    Doctors did fine prescribing opioids in the 70s and 80s. They're not the cause of this epidemic.
    - icantdrive55 8y ago
      Yea--I'm not blaming doctors, nor drug companies. Americans are misserable on so many levels. I believe most people who really liked opiates, are also very depressed. Life in America, since the 80'-90's has been not great for many of us. I'm not suprised people liked a drug that lifted the depression, and completely took away the anxiety.
  - cortesoft 8y ago
    So who should you trust to weigh risks? Every group that needs to weigh risks sometimes gets it wrong, that is what makes something a risk (uncertainty)
    - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
      Fairly sure the opioid epidemic isn't caused doctors sometimes getting it wrong.
  - Nasrudith 8y ago
    The one which the majority of addicts started from street users? Doctors seem to be the convenient scapegoat especially considering that ironically cracking down on pill mills has proven to be a 'we need bigger morgues' disaster with the iron law of prohibition resulting in fentanyl taking its place. While pill mills aren't ideal clearly they were a form of harm reduction of sorts by ensuring very regularly measured doses - still possible to overdose of course but that is from upping it or taking it again too soon as opposed to having 'one dose' which is more like ten of the normal. The absolute sickest part of it all is that despite this addicts can get more than enough painkillers yet the quixotic knee-jerk 'Do something! This is something lets do it!' crackdowns are hurting the actual chronic pain patients.
- gameswithgo 8y ago
  I am sure some doctors share the opinion that maybe we shouldn't ever use ambien.
reverend_gonzo 8y ago
Alcohol has a non-trivial chance of making someone completely addicted to it, along with side effects that can ruin the lives of bystanders. Does that mean no one should ever take alcohol as well? The world is not black and white.
- codewithcheese 8y ago
  Doctors should not prescribe alcohol. From a health and safety point of view, yes one should not consumer alcohol.
  - xkcd-sucks 8y ago
    Ethanol is the safest, cheapest, and best-studied intervention for acute methanol poisoning though
    - yebyen 8y ago
      I don't think this is relevant to the reason why most people are using ethanol, though... or most of the people using Ambien for that matter, at least is the impression I get from reading the discussion thread on this post!
- emodendroket 8y ago
  From what I have read about Ambien I feel like the descent is much more sudden and unpredictable with the sleeping pills.
  - gnulinux 8y ago
    Ambien descent for me was absolutely momentary. One moment you feel normal, one moment later you feel absolutely different. For me it's even debatable if it ever makes you asleep. It feels more like it paralyzes you. I guess, I never had a "black out" from Ambien (like sleep walking etc) and the portions I remember were what I can describe as hell on earth.
- astura 8y ago
cortesoft 8y ago
Shouldn't that depend on how bad the disease is that you are trying to cure with the drug?

nradov 8y ago

That's why we have doctors, to weigh the risks versus benefits and prescribe treatment in the patient's best interest. I suspect that some of the worst side effects might have genetic risk factors. Hopefully researchers will determine whether people with particular genes are at greater risk of suffering mental problems from Ambien.

codewithcheese 8y ago
I think doctors as a group of individuals have proven they can't be trusted to weigh the risks. Consider the opiods epidemic as an example There must be better alternatives to get a good nights sleep. OP description of " I renewed prescriptions and would actually think ahead to the moment when I got to enjoy an Ambien." sound a lot like early stage addiction.
- fhood 8y ago
  I am hella addicted to amazon then. Holy shit.
- nradov 8y ago
  If we can't trust doctors then we have a much bigger problem that can't be solved by banning medicines which the FDA has determined to be safe and effective for treating certain conditions. While there's room for improvement in medical care standards, issues with a handful of drugs aren't sufficient evidence to provoke distrust. Most doctors get it right more often than wrong.
- boomboomsubban 8y ago
  >Consider the opiods epidemic as an example The one where drug companies actively lied about both how addictive their drugs were and the best way that they should be prescribed? Doctors aren't perfect, and there are some that are truly terrible, but in general their opinion is trustworthy.
- mikec3010 8y ago
  Doctors did fine prescribing opioids in the 70s and 80s. They're not the cause of this epidemic.
  - icantdrive55 8y ago
    Yea--I'm not blaming doctors, nor drug companies. Americans are misserable on so many levels. I believe most people who really liked opiates, are also very depressed. Life in America, since the 80'-90's has been not great for many of us. I'm not suprised people liked a drug that lifted the depression, and completely took away the anxiety.
- cortesoft 8y ago
  So who should you trust to weigh risks? Every group that needs to weigh risks sometimes gets it wrong, that is what makes something a risk (uncertainty)
  - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
    Fairly sure the opioid epidemic isn't caused doctors sometimes getting it wrong.
- Nasrudith 8y ago
  The one which the majority of addicts started from street users? Doctors seem to be the convenient scapegoat especially considering that ironically cracking down on pill mills has proven to be a 'we need bigger morgues' disaster with the iron law of prohibition resulting in fentanyl taking its place. While pill mills aren't ideal clearly they were a form of harm reduction of sorts by ensuring very regularly measured doses - still possible to overdose of course but that is from upping it or taking it again too soon as opposed to having 'one dose' which is more like ten of the normal. The absolute sickest part of it all is that despite this addicts can get more than enough painkillers yet the quixotic knee-jerk 'Do something! This is something lets do it!' crackdowns are hurting the actual chronic pain patients.
gameswithgo 8y ago
I am sure some doctors share the opinion that maybe we shouldn't ever use ambien.

reverend_gonzo 8y ago

Alcohol has a non-trivial chance of making someone completely addicted to it, along with side effects that can ruin the lives of bystanders. Does that mean no one should ever take alcohol as well? The world is not black and white.

codewithcheese 8y ago
Doctors should not prescribe alcohol. From a health and safety point of view, yes one should not consumer alcohol.
- xkcd-sucks 8y ago
  Ethanol is the safest, cheapest, and best-studied intervention for acute methanol poisoning though
  - yebyen 8y ago
    I don't think this is relevant to the reason why most people are using ethanol, though... or most of the people using Ambien for that matter, at least is the impression I get from reading the discussion thread on this post!
emodendroket 8y ago
From what I have read about Ambien I feel like the descent is much more sudden and unpredictable with the sleeping pills.
- gnulinux 8y ago
  Ambien descent for me was absolutely momentary. One moment you feel normal, one moment later you feel absolutely different. For me it's even debatable if it ever makes you asleep. It feels more like it paralyzes you. I guess, I never had a "black out" from Ambien (like sleep walking etc) and the portions I remember were what I can describe as hell on earth.
astura 8y ago

cortesoft 8y ago

Shouldn't that depend on how bad the disease is that you are trying to cure with the drug?