22 ms·

Hi there, I'm the author of the blog post. Some context you may find interesting, and maybe I should do a follow up post about this. We were very enterprise fo

by dpower 8y ago

Hi there, I'm the author of the blog post. Some context you may find interesting, and maybe I should do a follow up post about this. We were very enterprise focused, but it just didn't work. We were trying to displace MS Outlook. And unfortunately, most people want to stick with Outlook. Not because it's better, but because it's what they know. We found that even if we convinced 8 out of 10 people in a company to buy Hiri, it wasn't enough. IT departments don't want to support more than one email client. 100% adoption is simply not an option. So we pivoted to the current model. A bottom up strategy that has made the company viable. I would say about 50% of our customers are paying with the department credit card, and the other 50% buy it using their personal card. Another interesting find - the growth stage of any given company has a role to play too. Younger companies (both the age of the company and the age of the staff) seem to be more open to trying new software. I guess they don't bring any legacy issues to the table. The problem is that a lot of these young companies choose Gmail. This is why we have chosen to support Gmail.

dogma1138 8y ago
Honestly while it might sounds like I’m speaking out of my ass that’s a bad business model. Outlook is one of the best mail clients out there, not many can disagree about that. The Office 365 web client is nearly identical these days and it runs in the browser. You aren’t going to out Office Microsoft that is just a fools errand. You can maybe focus on better mail clients for the desktop but there are quite a few good ones already yes they don’t work with Exchange out of the box but with IMAP and exchange connectors many of them do. Also by essentially building a client for Exchange you are putting your product at the mercy of Microsoft that can change their APIs and protocol on a whim and even block 3rd party clients with their EULA all together.
- shimon 8y ago
  They probably shouldn't try to compete so generally. "Better business email than outlook" is a very very difficult challenge. "Better tools to help developers who prefer Linux on the desktop function in a company committed to Microsoft" seems like a real market, but one far too small for a big company. That's the type of market that might be a great starting point for a startup.
- slrz 8y ago
  > Outlook is one of the best mail clients out there, not many can disagree about that. Outlook may be a fine program for some types of office work but its MUA is one of the absolute worst mail programs in existence, surpassed only by certain webmailers and a collection of weird mobile apps handset manufacturers are probably paid serious money for shipping pre-installed on their (low-end) devices. I have never seen a mailer being so actively destructive to email. The only times I receive mail that is more garbled and/or broken than that from Outlook users are the creepy web and mobile apps described above. I have no idea whether all of this is the result of configuration errors on the user side. Maybe it's actually possible to configure the Exchange/Outlook combination to behave in a sane way. If so, this knowledge appears to be awfully rare among the Outlook- and Exchange-using population.
- biktor_gj 8y ago
  I would say it is one of the most _feature complete_ email client, but I don't think it is a good email software. I've seen it crash too many times at the worst possible timings, and, latest updates have rendered almost unusable without patching on Mac for Exchange enterprise users (I even had to make a script to disable Outlook autodiscover on all our corporate macs because from 16.12 version and up it started trying to go to office 365 to authenticate a local exchange account...) Opensource or not, I thank every company who thinks of linux as a target where it can invest. Let's face it, proprietary software needs to be in linux too if linux can eventually gain marketshare in the client landscape, and given the state of Windows 10 and its spyware, and all the big problems with MacOS since 10.10, any help to increase linux adoption out of server and embedded platforms is welcome. I will give this a try tomorrow, using linux at work and having no choice but to use evolution to get access to Exchange I think my use case is exactly the target client:)
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    Office for Mac has been a shitshow for years, either use 365 online or use the windows one through parallels et al.
- ben509 8y ago
  > Outlook is one of the best mail clients out there, not many can disagree about that. > You aren’t going to out Office Microsoft that is just a fools errand. Having used Outlook for a while, even on Windows, I'm shocked that people describe Outlook as good. It may be the least worst, but Outlook is, being generous, a very mediocre piece of software. That's Microsoft's strategy in a nutshell: be Good Enough for a very large audience. > Also by essentially building a client for Exchange you are putting your product at the mercy of Microsoft that can change their APIs and protocol on a whim and even block 3rd party clients with their EULA all together. That used to be true, but they're far more constrained by their installed base these days.
  - _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
    > That's Microsoft's strategy in a nutshell: be Good Enough for a very large captive audience.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Outlook is wonderful when compared against the competition, specially when you are unlucky enough to use Lotus Notes as alternative.
- btschaegg 8y ago
  > Outlook is one of the best mail clients out there, not many can disagree about that. Are we talking about the client that sent the plaintext for encrypted emails along for half a year?
- willtim 8y ago
  Outlook was designed and built in an era were just a few emails were ever sent/received in a day. It does not cope well with the deluge of mails common to today's corporate world. I think there now is an opportunity for other players here, as Google have shown.
mattl 8y ago
> Unfortunately, the fundamentalist FOSS mentality we encountered on Reddit is still alive and well. This is incredibly rude. You may not like it, but GNU/Linux was built by people for user freedom, not for proprietary email clients. Instead of using words like “fundamentalist” please instead consider that you are doing something that is not welcomed by the creators of the operating system and a large number of the long-term users. A little understanding would go a long way.
- gandreani 8y ago
  I welcome it It's just impractical to have high quality software for every niche be built by the FOSS community. Even non-niche products (like, let's say email) leave a lot to be desired If I could pay companies for these products I would. But I don't because they don't make products for Linux because they think we only want FOSS programs Also, yes the creators probably don't condone proprietary software but who cares. They're not the market. The users of the OS are the market. And I want high quality software, free or not, source be dammed!
  - mattl 8y ago
    There’s no reason free software can’t be paid for either. I agree that not every type of software will be built by community efforts alone, which is why many companies are contributing to free software. Out of interest, what free software would you like to see?
    - gandreani 8y ago
      Oh man where do I begin? So I can't confidently say I've tried it all but when I booted up Ubuntu within the last year it was hard to find... - simple email client with good html template support and conversation threading (thunderbird was meh) - simple pdf viewer - pdf editor - an oscilliscope app that works with those usb oscilliscopes - image editor (gimp is a slow nightmare to use) - Microsoft Office suite replacement (Open/Libre Office is also a UI nightmare) - A diagram app ala draw.io (Admittedly I haven't looked too hard for this one) - Music library organizer (Also didn't look too hard) I guess now would also be a good time to mention apps that are great - Desktops shells (Gnome/KDE/Xfce) - VLC - Firefox/Chrome - Package managers - Music players (generally bearable)
alkonaut 8y ago
Any business that is part Linux and part windows, exchange infrastructure, will need an exchange client for all their Linux client machines? Assuming web based won’t cut it for those users, then it would seem Hiri is a good fit for that business? I can’t see in what way you are competing or displacing Outlook if you are makinhg a product for Linux. The reason it’s a viable product would be 1) because there is no Linux outlook, and 2) because a business has users that have to run Linux while others run Outlook on windows, against the same Exchange infrastructure?
- ndarwincorn 8y ago
  >there is no Linux outlook With the GH aquisition I'll be shocked if we don't see most of MS's desktop stuff, including Office, move to Electron/WebAssembly in the next few years.
  - awill 8y ago
    Outlook is already a bloated beast. Moving it to Electron would be a disaster. I can't see it happening. Maybe a 'lite' version of outlook, but not the version enterprises use.
    - hug 8y ago
      Yes, but https://twitter.com/thelarkinn/status/1006746626617008128?s=21 https://twitter.com/thelarkinn/status/1006746626617008128?s=...
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        That guy was forced to comment on Reddit that he was joking about it. What about linking to that instead?
        fourthark 8y ago
        https://amp.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8qqhlz/office_365_ms_teams_skype_code_and_the_edge_debug/?__twitter_impression=true https://amp.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8qqhlz/office_...
kemonocode 8y ago
Good. I know it might sound awful, but I feel relieved by the fact you're seeing strong resistance/reluctance towards a paid, proprietary product. Don't get me wrong though- I'm a pragmatist, and I'll gladly use any closed source solution if it's really the best to adapt to my needs and there's no open source solution I can't readily tweak for what I need. When working on Linux, I find myself pining for Visual Studio at times, and for art Krita does have a hard time beating Clip Studio, but they've both earned their spot rightly. I do think many people are like this though: they will use your software if they truly believe it's the best at what it does.
jerguismi 8y ago
> I would say about 50% of our customers are paying with the department credit card, and the other 50% buy it using their personal card. Is this your way to determine if it is for business or personal use? Often in small companies and startups people use their personal credit cards for business purchases. Even in some bigger companies they do that, they just invoice it later separately.
- txcwpalpha 8y ago
  At my old company of 200k+ people, purchases for things like software licenses or other misc tools would be paid using a card that was in the employee's name, but with the bill going to the employer. I know it's the same method with at least 3 other 150k+ companies that are in my industry. I have a feeling this would confound those results quite significantly.
- dpower 8y ago
  We use domains more than anything. It's not the easiest thing to determine, but I'd be pretty confident in the 50/50 scenario. But I should have said that many of the people buying with their own credit card are actually purchasing for work.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    Right. I mean, how many people have personal Exchange accounts?
    - kevkav 8y ago
      That is true but at a lot of people do use outlook.com / hotmail.com for their personal email. Those are effectively Exchange accounts (MS finished migrating them to Exchange last year). So Hiri works with those too.
      - mirimir 8y ago
        Oh. I had no clue. What's the advantage vs IPMI or POP?
peterwwillis 8y ago
The decision to choose a "mail client" (really a "groupware system") is a complex process in most cases. MS Office is the default because it does everything, and it works on the top two platforms. Google is sort of competing in this space, but it's nowhere near MS's feature set, customer/business service, and compatibility. The people buying your product are not integrating it into their business case because your product can't compete, it can only fill a niche. In this sense you should definitely find niches, such as users willing to pay money to have a working client on Linux. But this can be a dangerous game. If, for example, Evolution suddenly stopped sucking balls at Exchange compatibility and became a half-decent mail client, you could lose your niche, and your cash flow. If I were you, I would make your product be as different as it can be while still being compatible. One way would be tightly integrating with an OS or product. Another way would be providing custom integration that competitors don't even come close to. Another would be to provide utility functions that nobody else has. Getting to the point where people use your product not because they like it, but because they have to have it. Kind of like the iPhone. Nobody ever needed a giant glass touch screen, but once people started using it, they couldn't give it up. Once you have that kind of core functionality, you could give away a stripped down product and ask for payment for premium features. This would net you additional users that would otherwise go to a free competitor, and be a potential entry to sales once they feel they need the extra features. (apologies if you're already doing any/all of this)
- jest3r1 8y ago
  A Linux niche I have had success selling is "privacy". The Linux crowd, especially decision makers in businesses that run Linux somewhere, are very privacy aware. It's a good differentiator. And people will pay for better privacy, especially considering the options.
  - raphinou 8y ago
    Could you tell a bit more? I am currently evaluating opportunities to address the need of privacy. Maybe our offers could be complementary? I am also reachable at my user name @gmail.com.
- 8y ago
jpwgarrison 8y ago
> This is why we have chosen to support Gmail. Your website and this discussion suggests Hiri does not support gmail. Which is it?
- jpwgarrison 8y ago
  Whoops just re-read TFA, you are working on it, good luck!
dotancohen 8y ago
> We were very enterprise focused, but it just didn't work. How was that focus manifested? What is your focus now? I ask because I would love to pay for an email client that has the single feature I most need. But the Hiri website only lets me know that the software: * Helps me conquer my inbox. How? I have no idea. * Removes unnecessary clutter from my inbox. I actually don't want anything removed from my inbox. * Accesses Office 365 and Exchange calendars, and a bunch of other Active Directory integration features. I already have that with Lightning. I'm currently using Thunderbird with an extension that provides the feature that I need, and I've donated to both the Mozilla foundation and the developer of said extension. What unique features does Hiri provide that Thunderbird does not? What can I do with Hiri that I cannot do with Thunderbird and Lightning? Lastly, why is it $120? I'll pay $10 without a second thought. I'll pay $20-$40 if it really scratches an itch. But I won't even consider $50 for an email client at all. $120 is absolutely ridiculous. I won't consider the one-year plan, nor is it even clear what is a one-year plan that includes indefinite access to updates and new features. What happens after one year?
- pjmlp 8y ago
  $120 ridiculous, oh the prices we use to pay in the 80's and 70's even for basic stuff like having access to a compiler. Pick your monthly salary, then imagine how many units of work you would need to sell to achieve the same value at what given price. Naturally $120 means one sale equals several at $20-$40, thus easier to achieve sustainability, given the ratio of marketing and sales team efforts to effective sales.
  - dpower 8y ago
    We tried a few price points/models. This one is what seems to work for us. Every business is different and it's a matter of experimenting until you find what works.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Perfectly, that is the point I was kind of trying to make. It is easier to ask for a random price, without taking the time to understand that there are a set of variables associated with production cost and keeping it sustainable. All the best to your business.
afarrell 8y ago
1) Do you have a mailing list to let me know when you do support Gmail? 2) I notice you've chosen 7 days as the length of the free trial. Why that rather than the 21ish days it takes to form a habit? 3) For your annual subscription plan, how do you avoid the user's credit card being expired by the 4th time you try to charge it?

by dpower 8y ago

dogma1138 8y ago

Honestly while it might sounds like I’m speaking out of my ass that’s a bad business model. Outlook is one of the best mail clients out there, not many can disagree about that. The Office 365 web client is nearly identical these days and it runs in the browser. You aren’t going to out Office Microsoft that is just a fools errand. You can maybe focus on better mail clients for the desktop but there are quite a few good ones already yes they don’t work with Exchange out of the box but with IMAP and exchange connectors many of them do. Also by essentially building a client for Exchange you are putting your product at the mercy of Microsoft that can change their APIs and protocol on a whim and even block 3rd party clients with their EULA all together.

shimon 8y ago
They probably shouldn't try to compete so generally. "Better business email than outlook" is a very very difficult challenge. "Better tools to help developers who prefer Linux on the desktop function in a company committed to Microsoft" seems like a real market, but one far too small for a big company. That's the type of market that might be a great starting point for a startup.
slrz 8y ago
> Outlook is one of the best mail clients out there, not many can disagree about that. Outlook may be a fine program for some types of office work but its MUA is one of the absolute worst mail programs in existence, surpassed only by certain webmailers and a collection of weird mobile apps handset manufacturers are probably paid serious money for shipping pre-installed on their (low-end) devices. I have never seen a mailer being so actively destructive to email. The only times I receive mail that is more garbled and/or broken than that from Outlook users are the creepy web and mobile apps described above. I have no idea whether all of this is the result of configuration errors on the user side. Maybe it's actually possible to configure the Exchange/Outlook combination to behave in a sane way. If so, this knowledge appears to be awfully rare among the Outlook- and Exchange-using population.
biktor_gj 8y ago
I would say it is one of the most _feature complete_ email client, but I don't think it is a good email software. I've seen it crash too many times at the worst possible timings, and, latest updates have rendered almost unusable without patching on Mac for Exchange enterprise users (I even had to make a script to disable Outlook autodiscover on all our corporate macs because from 16.12 version and up it started trying to go to office 365 to authenticate a local exchange account...) Opensource or not, I thank every company who thinks of linux as a target where it can invest. Let's face it, proprietary software needs to be in linux too if linux can eventually gain marketshare in the client landscape, and given the state of Windows 10 and its spyware, and all the big problems with MacOS since 10.10, any help to increase linux adoption out of server and embedded platforms is welcome. I will give this a try tomorrow, using linux at work and having no choice but to use evolution to get access to Exchange I think my use case is exactly the target client:)
- dogma1138 8y ago
  Office for Mac has been a shitshow for years, either use 365 online or use the windows one through parallels et al.
ben509 8y ago
> Outlook is one of the best mail clients out there, not many can disagree about that. > You aren’t going to out Office Microsoft that is just a fools errand. Having used Outlook for a while, even on Windows, I'm shocked that people describe Outlook as good. It may be the least worst, but Outlook is, being generous, a very mediocre piece of software. That's Microsoft's strategy in a nutshell: be Good Enough for a very large audience. > Also by essentially building a client for Exchange you are putting your product at the mercy of Microsoft that can change their APIs and protocol on a whim and even block 3rd party clients with their EULA all together. That used to be true, but they're far more constrained by their installed base these days.
- _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
  > That's Microsoft's strategy in a nutshell: be Good Enough for a very large captive audience.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Outlook is wonderful when compared against the competition, specially when you are unlucky enough to use Lotus Notes as alternative.
btschaegg 8y ago
> Outlook is one of the best mail clients out there, not many can disagree about that. Are we talking about the client that sent the plaintext for encrypted emails along for half a year?
willtim 8y ago
Outlook was designed and built in an era were just a few emails were ever sent/received in a day. It does not cope well with the deluge of mails common to today's corporate world. I think there now is an opportunity for other players here, as Google have shown.

mattl 8y ago

> Unfortunately, the fundamentalist FOSS mentality we encountered on Reddit is still alive and well. This is incredibly rude. You may not like it, but GNU/Linux was built by people for user freedom, not for proprietary email clients. Instead of using words like “fundamentalist” please instead consider that you are doing something that is not welcomed by the creators of the operating system and a large number of the long-term users. A little understanding would go a long way.

gandreani 8y ago
I welcome it It's just impractical to have high quality software for every niche be built by the FOSS community. Even non-niche products (like, let's say email) leave a lot to be desired If I could pay companies for these products I would. But I don't because they don't make products for Linux because they think we only want FOSS programs Also, yes the creators probably don't condone proprietary software but who cares. They're not the market. The users of the OS are the market. And I want high quality software, free or not, source be dammed!
- mattl 8y ago
  There’s no reason free software can’t be paid for either. I agree that not every type of software will be built by community efforts alone, which is why many companies are contributing to free software. Out of interest, what free software would you like to see?
  - gandreani 8y ago
    Oh man where do I begin? So I can't confidently say I've tried it all but when I booted up Ubuntu within the last year it was hard to find... - simple email client with good html template support and conversation threading (thunderbird was meh) - simple pdf viewer - pdf editor - an oscilliscope app that works with those usb oscilliscopes - image editor (gimp is a slow nightmare to use) - Microsoft Office suite replacement (Open/Libre Office is also a UI nightmare) - A diagram app ala draw.io (Admittedly I haven't looked too hard for this one) - Music library organizer (Also didn't look too hard) I guess now would also be a good time to mention apps that are great - Desktops shells (Gnome/KDE/Xfce) - VLC - Firefox/Chrome - Package managers - Music players (generally bearable)

alkonaut 8y ago

Any business that is part Linux and part windows, exchange infrastructure, will need an exchange client for all their Linux client machines? Assuming web based won’t cut it for those users, then it would seem Hiri is a good fit for that business? I can’t see in what way you are competing or displacing Outlook if you are makinhg a product for Linux. The reason it’s a viable product would be 1) because there is no Linux outlook, and 2) because a business has users that have to run Linux while others run Outlook on windows, against the same Exchange infrastructure?

ndarwincorn 8y ago
>there is no Linux outlook With the GH aquisition I'll be shocked if we don't see most of MS's desktop stuff, including Office, move to Electron/WebAssembly in the next few years.
- awill 8y ago
  Outlook is already a bloated beast. Moving it to Electron would be a disaster. I can't see it happening. Maybe a 'lite' version of outlook, but not the version enterprises use.
  - hug 8y ago
    Yes, but https://twitter.com/thelarkinn/status/1006746626617008128?s=21 https://twitter.com/thelarkinn/status/1006746626617008128?s=...
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      That guy was forced to comment on Reddit that he was joking about it. What about linking to that instead?
      - fourthark 8y ago
        https://amp.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8qqhlz/office_365_ms_teams_skype_code_and_the_edge_debug/?__twitter_impression=true https://amp.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8qqhlz/office_...

kemonocode 8y ago

Good. I know it might sound awful, but I feel relieved by the fact you're seeing strong resistance/reluctance towards a paid, proprietary product. Don't get me wrong though- I'm a pragmatist, and I'll gladly use any closed source solution if it's really the best to adapt to my needs and there's no open source solution I can't readily tweak for what I need. When working on Linux, I find myself pining for Visual Studio at times, and for art Krita does have a hard time beating Clip Studio, but they've both earned their spot rightly. I do think many people are like this though: they will use your software if they truly believe it's the best at what it does.

jerguismi 8y ago

> I would say about 50% of our customers are paying with the department credit card, and the other 50% buy it using their personal card. Is this your way to determine if it is for business or personal use? Often in small companies and startups people use their personal credit cards for business purchases. Even in some bigger companies they do that, they just invoice it later separately.

txcwpalpha 8y ago
At my old company of 200k+ people, purchases for things like software licenses or other misc tools would be paid using a card that was in the employee's name, but with the bill going to the employer. I know it's the same method with at least 3 other 150k+ companies that are in my industry. I have a feeling this would confound those results quite significantly.
dpower 8y ago
We use domains more than anything. It's not the easiest thing to determine, but I'd be pretty confident in the 50/50 scenario. But I should have said that many of the people buying with their own credit card are actually purchasing for work.
- mirimir 8y ago
  Right. I mean, how many people have personal Exchange accounts?
  - kevkav 8y ago
    That is true but at a lot of people do use outlook.com / hotmail.com for their personal email. Those are effectively Exchange accounts (MS finished migrating them to Exchange last year). So Hiri works with those too.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      Oh. I had no clue. What's the advantage vs IPMI or POP?

peterwwillis 8y ago

The decision to choose a "mail client" (really a "groupware system") is a complex process in most cases. MS Office is the default because it does everything, and it works on the top two platforms. Google is sort of competing in this space, but it's nowhere near MS's feature set, customer/business service, and compatibility. The people buying your product are not integrating it into their business case because your product can't compete, it can only fill a niche. In this sense you should definitely find niches, such as users willing to pay money to have a working client on Linux. But this can be a dangerous game. If, for example, Evolution suddenly stopped sucking balls at Exchange compatibility and became a half-decent mail client, you could lose your niche, and your cash flow. If I were you, I would make your product be as different as it can be while still being compatible. One way would be tightly integrating with an OS or product. Another way would be providing custom integration that competitors don't even come close to. Another would be to provide utility functions that nobody else has. Getting to the point where people use your product not because they like it, but because they have to have it. Kind of like the iPhone. Nobody ever needed a giant glass touch screen, but once people started using it, they couldn't give it up. Once you have that kind of core functionality, you could give away a stripped down product and ask for payment for premium features. This would net you additional users that would otherwise go to a free competitor, and be a potential entry to sales once they feel they need the extra features. (apologies if you're already doing any/all of this)

jest3r1 8y ago
A Linux niche I have had success selling is "privacy". The Linux crowd, especially decision makers in businesses that run Linux somewhere, are very privacy aware. It's a good differentiator. And people will pay for better privacy, especially considering the options.
- raphinou 8y ago
  Could you tell a bit more? I am currently evaluating opportunities to address the need of privacy. Maybe our offers could be complementary? I am also reachable at my user name @gmail.com.
8y ago

jpwgarrison 8y ago

> This is why we have chosen to support Gmail. Your website and this discussion suggests Hiri does not support gmail. Which is it?

jpwgarrison 8y ago
Whoops just re-read TFA, you are working on it, good luck!

dotancohen 8y ago

> We were very enterprise focused, but it just didn't work. How was that focus manifested? What is your focus now? I ask because I would love to pay for an email client that has the single feature I most need. But the Hiri website only lets me know that the software: * Helps me conquer my inbox. How? I have no idea. * Removes unnecessary clutter from my inbox. I actually don't want anything removed from my inbox. * Accesses Office 365 and Exchange calendars, and a bunch of other Active Directory integration features. I already have that with Lightning. I'm currently using Thunderbird with an extension that provides the feature that I need, and I've donated to both the Mozilla foundation and the developer of said extension. What unique features does Hiri provide that Thunderbird does not? What can I do with Hiri that I cannot do with Thunderbird and Lightning? Lastly, why is it $120? I'll pay $10 without a second thought. I'll pay $20-$40 if it really scratches an itch. But I won't even consider $50 for an email client at all. $120 is absolutely ridiculous. I won't consider the one-year plan, nor is it even clear what is a one-year plan that includes indefinite access to updates and new features. What happens after one year?

pjmlp 8y ago
$120 ridiculous, oh the prices we use to pay in the 80's and 70's even for basic stuff like having access to a compiler. Pick your monthly salary, then imagine how many units of work you would need to sell to achieve the same value at what given price. Naturally $120 means one sale equals several at $20-$40, thus easier to achieve sustainability, given the ratio of marketing and sales team efforts to effective sales.
- dpower 8y ago
  We tried a few price points/models. This one is what seems to work for us. Every business is different and it's a matter of experimenting until you find what works.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Perfectly, that is the point I was kind of trying to make. It is easier to ask for a random price, without taking the time to understand that there are a set of variables associated with production cost and keeping it sustainable. All the best to your business.

afarrell 8y ago

1) Do you have a mailing list to let me know when you do support Gmail? 2) I notice you've chosen 7 days as the length of the free trial. Why that rather than the 21ish days it takes to form a habit? 3) For your annual subscription plan, how do you avoid the user's credit card being expired by the 4th time you try to charge it?