12 ms·

When is a nation not a nation? Somaliland’s dream of independence

106 points by unmole 8y ago

roryisok 8y ago
I had literally no idea that Somaliland existed, and I consider myself to be pretty up to date with the political world map. It's fascinating to read about a country you knew nothing of, even an unrecognised one. No, especially an unrecognised one
- jcranmer 8y ago
  The existence of Somaliland tends to come up in any in-depth article discussing Somalia's problems. Somalian piracy flared up around 2005 and more or less completely died off around 2013. Similarly, al-Shabab peaked around 2012. This means that Somalia has kept out of the news for half a decade, which reduces the opportunities to find out about Somaliland and Puntland [the region of Somalia next to Somaliland that has a stable, functioning government but doesn't claim independence]. The main reason that most countries refuse to recognize Somaliland is that the current thinking is that letting it be independent would harm the process of putting Somalia back together again after it fell apart in 1991.
- grecy 8y ago
  I was fascinated to learn about Western Sahara when I drove through. It was at one point a fully-fledged country, now it's listed by the UN as an "occupied territory". i.e. Morocco invaded and have taken over. They're adamant it's simply Morocco, and they get really mean to anyone that says otherwise, or even if you have a map that shows it as a separate country. Driving through it's just like you never left Morocco, except there are military roadblocks every 100km, there is a lot of new construction, and gas is noticeably cheaper than the rest of Morocco (i.e. Morocco attempting to spur development and help "claim" it) It's fascinating to me a country can be invaded and occupied by their neighbor and the world does nothing about it.
  - netsharc 8y ago
    Well there's the Spratly Islands, and (puts flamesuit on) the Occupied Palestinian Territories. And there's a place on earth no country wants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bir_Tawil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bir_Tawil
  - s_kilk 8y ago
    >> It's fascinating to me a country can be invaded and occupied by their neighbor and the world does nothing about it. See also: Palestine
  - bumholio 8y ago
    > a country can be invaded and occupied by their neighbor and the world does nothing about it. Western Sahara was never a sovereign, recognized state. Spain relinquished it's colonial claim over it and Morocco and Mauritania rushed to claim parts of the territory (Mauritania has since renounced too). The closest thing to a nationally representative organization was the Polisario Front, a military-political structure based on ethnic Sahrawi affiliation. It didn't help that the area is so sparsely populated and could barely sustain an independent state in the 70s, let alone a state capable of withstanding the territorial advances of such a powerful neighbor like Morocco.
    - dmurray 8y ago
      > Spain relinquished it's colonial claim over it and Morocco and Mauritania rushed to claim parts of the territory Is this a case where the colonial power should have been more firm when drawing arbitrary lines in the sand? The opposite of what they usually get criticised for.
  - busterarm 8y ago
    The world does nothing about it because every single party involved, from Morocco to SADR to Algeria, got their hands dirty with breaking the Geneva conventions. With napalm and WP used against refugee camps on multiple sides, no country wants the optics of picking one. The political situation is also pretty stable there since the late 70s. Shit, but stably shit.
  - 8y ago
Robotbeat 8y ago
Fairly safe compared to its neighbor in the South. I know a lot of the Somali refugees in Minnesota who have gotten back on their feet financially have been investing in Somaliland and some are moving back.
- barry-cotter 8y ago
  You could say the same regarding investing and moving back about Mogadishu, where the UN puppet government has its capital and it is not safe. People just have real affection for their home.
  - jeromegv 8y ago
    Except if you read the article you would see it's a fairly safe place, compared to the rest of Somalia.
    - barry-cotter 8y ago
      If all you know about Somaliland comes from reading that article look at the Wikipedia article on Somaliland. More detail, less colour. Ditto for Puntland, which is also safer than any region settled by ethnic Somalis bar Dijibouti. Mogadishu is safe enough that one of my friends spent two months there trying to find business opportunities and her most memorable story was of an argument with a “government” soldier. It’s safer than Congo.
      - Simon_says 8y ago
        > It’s safer than Congo. Uh ... OK
- jtchang 8y ago
  Out of curiosity how are the investing it in? Going back and starting businesses or sending money?
  - Robotbeat 8y ago
21 8y ago
I was discussing this with my Catalan friend, that from the outside world their declaration of independence looks comical, because Catalonia doesn't act like a real country in any shape or form, unlike Somaliland here. Now I get it that Catalonia is inside a powerful state and you can't just do "country things", but still.
- dudul 8y ago
  Can you elaborate a little what you mean by "doesn't act like a real country"? My understanding is that provinces in Spain actually enjoy quite a lot of autonomy in regards to how they organize their operations/policies. Catalonia promotes its own language in schools, they even have some form of foreign affairs with other governments. What do you think is missing? And just to be clear, I also thought the declaration of independence was really comical :)
  - vinceguidry 8y ago
    My understanding is that it's a bit like Texas or California or New York dreaming that they could be their own separate countries. If you live in one of these places it's easy to put on rose colored glasses and dream. But are they really going to put up a border wall, close off economically, form their own military, et al, et al? Their prosperity is based in large part on integration into the union. They will always be dependent on it in some form, even if they achieved political independence. Unlike Somaliland, which really has no use for it's neighbor and the realities on the ground reflect that.
    - _delirium 8y ago
      That's true, but in the modern era the Catalan form of independentism (like the Scottish and Flemish ones) is an aspiration to be an independent country still tightly integrated within the EU as the overarching supra-national framework, so there wouldn't really be a goal to put up border walls or be capable of militarily defending the border, any more than Luxembourg does either of those things. The hope was that as nations integrate closer into the EU, the EU picks up many of the traditional responsibilities of a nation (external border, customs, trade agreements, etc.), making it more viable for regions to detach from countries that themselves partly function as federations (like Spain, the UK, and Belgium) and just become direct members of the top-level federation. Now it's quite possible that political or procedural reasons (like the ease of vetoing new EU members) mean this is unlikely to happen, but it's generally the envisioned route that independence supporters in these regions have.
sandov 8y ago
Fun fact: Somaliland recognizes Liberland[1] as a country. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberland https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberland
- Uberphallus 8y ago
  Fun fact extension: most unrecognized countries recognize each other. One of my favourite moments in Tiraspol (Transnistria, de facto independent of Moldova) was finding the joint embassy of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
  - anticensor 8y ago
    Just like socially awkward people and autistic persons interact very well among themselves.
  - hokobomo 8y ago
    All these are simply russian puppet quasi-states, so the "embassies" there are no wonder
- microcolonel 8y ago
  Liberland is quite countrylike, as a matter of fact. It has a dense network of unmaintained track roads, and a capital city containing the ruins of an entire shed.
NedIsakoff 8y ago
When no country important recognizes you as a country? eg. Taiwan
- rtkwe 8y ago
  Taiwan (ROC) is a bit of an odd duck because so many places treat them as different but don't do it 'officially' because China demands that they don't as part of maintaining relations with the PRC. For example the US sells them arms after all, it's not like the US completely refuses to admit they exist. Many countries have quasi-embassies in the form of Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Offices (TECRO) which are definitely totally not embassies just act like them in pretty much every way.
- tanbog 8y ago
  To be fair, the issue here is also that for most of the last 70 or so years the Taiwanese government actually claimed to be the rightful government for ALL of mainland China and even occupied its seat at the UN in that capacity for a time. I don't think anyone argues that Taiwan - outside of the Indigenous population which are a minority - see themselves as anything other than Chinese.
sdiq 8y ago
The blue Somali flag has a star that with each of the points of the star representating a Somali inhabited region: French Somaliland which is Djibouti; British Somaliland, which is the focus of the article; Italian Somaliland, the Somalia with Mogadishu as its capital; the Ogaden in Ethiopia and Northern Frontier District NFD in Kenya.I am an ethnic Somali from NFD though the name has since changed. Last time it was called North Eastern Province before Kenya abolished the provincial system. The Ogaden as a name is also frowned upon. Ironically, I am also from the Ogadeni clan. Ethiopian Somalis, and Ethiopians in general, prefer calling the same as Somali Regional State. Anyway, Somalia, before the union and merger of the British and Italian Somalilands, claimed sovereignty over all these other Somalilands. This dream was known as Greater Somalia. But, the same is know probably dead. The collapse of the Somali government didn't help matters. Interestingly, rather than Somalis ultimately uniting in one country, after the war, the numerous other Somalilands came to the aid of the fleeing Somali regions. My home county in Kenya has been host to one of the largest refugee camps in the world - Dadaab. Well, that was before Syria happened. Somaliland, the one in the article, seems to be functioning much better than Somalia - an entity it is tied to in a marriage that wasn't supposed to work from the beginning. Somaliland should have negotiated for a better deal before unconditionally joining Somalia. Also, the Africa Union is probably not going to recognise Somaliland as an independent state. This, for fear of opening a Pandora's box. There are many other African communities not happy of being part of the countries they have been forced to be a part of. Anyway, I do support the independence of Somaliland though the border issues would need to be sorted out. Some clans are happy with being in Somalia. I support their independence because of the potential for their prosperity. They are currently being forced for Somalia to sort out its issues which I think is unfair.
- losvedir 8y ago
  Very interesting comment, thanks. Also, the Africa Union is probably not going to recognise Somaliland as an independent state. This, for fear of opening a Pandora's box. There are many other African communities not happy of being part of the countries they have been forced to be a part of. This kind of surprises me. I've sometimes thought it might be in Africa's long term interest to have this happen. The current countries were created arbitrarily by Europeans based on what they wanted to control, without regard for the underlying peoples with their languages, cultures, and histories. Perhaps a rethinking of borders would be positive in the long run.
Raphmedia 8y ago
Reminds me of the confusing situation of Québec, Canada: "Our position is clear. Do the Québécois form a nation within Canada? The answer is yes. Do the Québécois form an independent nation? The answer is no and the answer will always be no," Harper told the House on Wednesday. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebecers-form-a-nation-within-canada-pm-1.624141 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebecers-form-a-nation-withi...
- sharpercoder 8y ago
  Countries within nation states are not uncommon. For example, the Kingdom of The Netherlands consists of multiple countries: The Netherlands, Curacao, Sint Maarten and Aruba. The same can be said for example for the United Kingdom.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > Countries within nation states are not uncommon. If it has more than one distinct nation within it, it is a multinational state, not a nation-state. Nation-states have been the dominant (but not universal!) norm for so long that people use “nation-state” when they just mean “state”.
    - vkou 8y ago
      By that definition, Canada is already a multinational state. There is not that much common language, culture, ethnicity between Quebec and, say, Alberta.
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > By that definition, Canada is already a multinational state. That was exactly my point.
    - ghkbrew 8y ago
      Unfortunately, "state" can't be used unambiguously to mean a sovereign political entity, because there are so many states that aren't sovereign (e.g. New York). I would guess "nation-state" has acquired it's current popular meaning because it is one of the few terms that unambiguously implies sovereignty, which is what the speaker is usually trying to emphasize.
ataturk 8y ago
I hope they work it out because (and this is going to sound racist, but I don't care) importing Somalis into the US is really not solving their problem and it is creating a whole shit-ton of new problems for Americans. I live around a lot of Somali people, so spare the fucking SJW, virtue signaling bullshit. They're people, they have issues and needs like all people. But damn man, they need to integrate and stop thinking that we exist to placate them and pick up after them. I don't see this attitude among other recent arrivals. I don't feel like Americans owe the people of the world anything. If they want to join our community, they can maintain their cultural heritage without being dicks about it.
phobosdeimos 8y ago
If other countries recognize your independence you are there. The US gained recognition from the Netherlands and France day one. Nobody gives a shit about Somaliland nor does anyone gain anything for supporting it.
m23khan 8y ago
Perhaps allow a major Western military power to come and establish a huge permanent base, and pray for some natural resources to be found might shorten the long road to independence. That and paying huge wads of cash to celebrity-turned-activists ($$$ not Somaliland cash bricks!!) to come and create heartbleed documentaries could potentially help their cause. Just sayin...
freedom_squared 8y ago
Somaliland is a customer of mine; I build national software and Somaliland is my second oldest customer. It’s cool to hear about their continued success on Hacker News. I like to think I played a small part in it. I hope that one day they achieve their dream of independence.
- genieyclo 8y ago
  How can I reach you to talk about this? From the area
tanbog 8y ago
In political theory and International Relations studies, there is a reasonably well established set of theories regarding the difference between "A nation", "A state" and a "Nation-State" the three are not synonymous and it irks me somewhat how even in an article like this the three seem to be conflated as I think it adds t everyone's confusion about things. Having said that, there is no "hegemon" (arbiter/judge/police/enforcer-of-rules) at international level so what is, or is not, a state is somewhat arbitrary and contingent on whatever power structures are at play at the time.

106 points by unmole 8y ago

I had literally no idea that Somaliland existed, and I consider myself to be pretty up to date with the political world map. It's fascinating to read about a country you knew nothing of, even an unrecognised one. No, especially an unrecognised one

jcranmer 8y ago
The existence of Somaliland tends to come up in any in-depth article discussing Somalia's problems. Somalian piracy flared up around 2005 and more or less completely died off around 2013. Similarly, al-Shabab peaked around 2012. This means that Somalia has kept out of the news for half a decade, which reduces the opportunities to find out about Somaliland and Puntland [the region of Somalia next to Somaliland that has a stable, functioning government but doesn't claim independence]. The main reason that most countries refuse to recognize Somaliland is that the current thinking is that letting it be independent would harm the process of putting Somalia back together again after it fell apart in 1991.
grecy 8y ago
I was fascinated to learn about Western Sahara when I drove through. It was at one point a fully-fledged country, now it's listed by the UN as an "occupied territory". i.e. Morocco invaded and have taken over. They're adamant it's simply Morocco, and they get really mean to anyone that says otherwise, or even if you have a map that shows it as a separate country. Driving through it's just like you never left Morocco, except there are military roadblocks every 100km, there is a lot of new construction, and gas is noticeably cheaper than the rest of Morocco (i.e. Morocco attempting to spur development and help "claim" it) It's fascinating to me a country can be invaded and occupied by their neighbor and the world does nothing about it.
- netsharc 8y ago
  Well there's the Spratly Islands, and (puts flamesuit on) the Occupied Palestinian Territories. And there's a place on earth no country wants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bir_Tawil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bir_Tawil
- s_kilk 8y ago
  >> It's fascinating to me a country can be invaded and occupied by their neighbor and the world does nothing about it. See also: Palestine
- bumholio 8y ago
  > a country can be invaded and occupied by their neighbor and the world does nothing about it. Western Sahara was never a sovereign, recognized state. Spain relinquished it's colonial claim over it and Morocco and Mauritania rushed to claim parts of the territory (Mauritania has since renounced too). The closest thing to a nationally representative organization was the Polisario Front, a military-political structure based on ethnic Sahrawi affiliation. It didn't help that the area is so sparsely populated and could barely sustain an independent state in the 70s, let alone a state capable of withstanding the territorial advances of such a powerful neighbor like Morocco.
  - dmurray 8y ago
    > Spain relinquished it's colonial claim over it and Morocco and Mauritania rushed to claim parts of the territory Is this a case where the colonial power should have been more firm when drawing arbitrary lines in the sand? The opposite of what they usually get criticised for.
- busterarm 8y ago
  The world does nothing about it because every single party involved, from Morocco to SADR to Algeria, got their hands dirty with breaking the Geneva conventions. With napalm and WP used against refugee camps on multiple sides, no country wants the optics of picking one. The political situation is also pretty stable there since the late 70s. Shit, but stably shit.
- 8y ago

Robotbeat 8y ago

Fairly safe compared to its neighbor in the South. I know a lot of the Somali refugees in Minnesota who have gotten back on their feet financially have been investing in Somaliland and some are moving back.

barry-cotter 8y ago
You could say the same regarding investing and moving back about Mogadishu, where the UN puppet government has its capital and it is not safe. People just have real affection for their home.
- jeromegv 8y ago
  Except if you read the article you would see it's a fairly safe place, compared to the rest of Somalia.
  - barry-cotter 8y ago
    If all you know about Somaliland comes from reading that article look at the Wikipedia article on Somaliland. More detail, less colour. Ditto for Puntland, which is also safer than any region settled by ethnic Somalis bar Dijibouti. Mogadishu is safe enough that one of my friends spent two months there trying to find business opportunities and her most memorable story was of an argument with a “government” soldier. It’s safer than Congo.
    - Simon_says 8y ago
      > It’s safer than Congo. Uh ... OK
jtchang 8y ago
Out of curiosity how are the investing it in? Going back and starting businesses or sending money?
- Robotbeat 8y ago

21 8y ago

I was discussing this with my Catalan friend, that from the outside world their declaration of independence looks comical, because Catalonia doesn't act like a real country in any shape or form, unlike Somaliland here. Now I get it that Catalonia is inside a powerful state and you can't just do "country things", but still.

dudul 8y ago
Can you elaborate a little what you mean by "doesn't act like a real country"? My understanding is that provinces in Spain actually enjoy quite a lot of autonomy in regards to how they organize their operations/policies. Catalonia promotes its own language in schools, they even have some form of foreign affairs with other governments. What do you think is missing? And just to be clear, I also thought the declaration of independence was really comical :)
- vinceguidry 8y ago
  My understanding is that it's a bit like Texas or California or New York dreaming that they could be their own separate countries. If you live in one of these places it's easy to put on rose colored glasses and dream. But are they really going to put up a border wall, close off economically, form their own military, et al, et al? Their prosperity is based in large part on integration into the union. They will always be dependent on it in some form, even if they achieved political independence. Unlike Somaliland, which really has no use for it's neighbor and the realities on the ground reflect that.
  - _delirium 8y ago
    That's true, but in the modern era the Catalan form of independentism (like the Scottish and Flemish ones) is an aspiration to be an independent country still tightly integrated within the EU as the overarching supra-national framework, so there wouldn't really be a goal to put up border walls or be capable of militarily defending the border, any more than Luxembourg does either of those things. The hope was that as nations integrate closer into the EU, the EU picks up many of the traditional responsibilities of a nation (external border, customs, trade agreements, etc.), making it more viable for regions to detach from countries that themselves partly function as federations (like Spain, the UK, and Belgium) and just become direct members of the top-level federation. Now it's quite possible that political or procedural reasons (like the ease of vetoing new EU members) mean this is unlikely to happen, but it's generally the envisioned route that independence supporters in these regions have.

sandov 8y ago

Fun fact: Somaliland recognizes Liberland[1] as a country. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberland https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberland

Uberphallus 8y ago
Fun fact extension: most unrecognized countries recognize each other. One of my favourite moments in Tiraspol (Transnistria, de facto independent of Moldova) was finding the joint embassy of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
- anticensor 8y ago
  Just like socially awkward people and autistic persons interact very well among themselves.
- hokobomo 8y ago
  All these are simply russian puppet quasi-states, so the "embassies" there are no wonder
microcolonel 8y ago
Liberland is quite countrylike, as a matter of fact. It has a dense network of unmaintained track roads, and a capital city containing the ruins of an entire shed.

NedIsakoff 8y ago

When no country important recognizes you as a country? eg. Taiwan

rtkwe 8y ago
Taiwan (ROC) is a bit of an odd duck because so many places treat them as different but don't do it 'officially' because China demands that they don't as part of maintaining relations with the PRC. For example the US sells them arms after all, it's not like the US completely refuses to admit they exist. Many countries have quasi-embassies in the form of Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Offices (TECRO) which are definitely totally not embassies just act like them in pretty much every way.
tanbog 8y ago
To be fair, the issue here is also that for most of the last 70 or so years the Taiwanese government actually claimed to be the rightful government for ALL of mainland China and even occupied its seat at the UN in that capacity for a time. I don't think anyone argues that Taiwan - outside of the Indigenous population which are a minority - see themselves as anything other than Chinese.

sdiq 8y ago

The blue Somali flag has a star that with each of the points of the star representating a Somali inhabited region: French Somaliland which is Djibouti; British Somaliland, which is the focus of the article; Italian Somaliland, the Somalia with Mogadishu as its capital; the Ogaden in Ethiopia and Northern Frontier District NFD in Kenya.I am an ethnic Somali from NFD though the name has since changed. Last time it was called North Eastern Province before Kenya abolished the provincial system. The Ogaden as a name is also frowned upon. Ironically, I am also from the Ogadeni clan. Ethiopian Somalis, and Ethiopians in general, prefer calling the same as Somali Regional State. Anyway, Somalia, before the union and merger of the British and Italian Somalilands, claimed sovereignty over all these other Somalilands. This dream was known as Greater Somalia. But, the same is know probably dead. The collapse of the Somali government didn't help matters. Interestingly, rather than Somalis ultimately uniting in one country, after the war, the numerous other Somalilands came to the aid of the fleeing Somali regions. My home county in Kenya has been host to one of the largest refugee camps in the world - Dadaab. Well, that was before Syria happened. Somaliland, the one in the article, seems to be functioning much better than Somalia - an entity it is tied to in a marriage that wasn't supposed to work from the beginning. Somaliland should have negotiated for a better deal before unconditionally joining Somalia. Also, the Africa Union is probably not going to recognise Somaliland as an independent state. This, for fear of opening a Pandora's box. There are many other African communities not happy of being part of the countries they have been forced to be a part of. Anyway, I do support the independence of Somaliland though the border issues would need to be sorted out. Some clans are happy with being in Somalia. I support their independence because of the potential for their prosperity. They are currently being forced for Somalia to sort out its issues which I think is unfair.

losvedir 8y ago
Very interesting comment, thanks. Also, the Africa Union is probably not going to recognise Somaliland as an independent state. This, for fear of opening a Pandora's box. There are many other African communities not happy of being part of the countries they have been forced to be a part of. This kind of surprises me. I've sometimes thought it might be in Africa's long term interest to have this happen. The current countries were created arbitrarily by Europeans based on what they wanted to control, without regard for the underlying peoples with their languages, cultures, and histories. Perhaps a rethinking of borders would be positive in the long run.

Raphmedia 8y ago

Reminds me of the confusing situation of Québec, Canada: "Our position is clear. Do the Québécois form a nation within Canada? The answer is yes. Do the Québécois form an independent nation? The answer is no and the answer will always be no," Harper told the House on Wednesday. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebecers-form-a-nation-within-canada-pm-1.624141 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebecers-form-a-nation-withi...

sharpercoder 8y ago
Countries within nation states are not uncommon. For example, the Kingdom of The Netherlands consists of multiple countries: The Netherlands, Curacao, Sint Maarten and Aruba. The same can be said for example for the United Kingdom.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Countries within nation states are not uncommon. If it has more than one distinct nation within it, it is a multinational state, not a nation-state. Nation-states have been the dominant (but not universal!) norm for so long that people use “nation-state” when they just mean “state”.
  - vkou 8y ago
    By that definition, Canada is already a multinational state. There is not that much common language, culture, ethnicity between Quebec and, say, Alberta.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > By that definition, Canada is already a multinational state. That was exactly my point.
  - ghkbrew 8y ago
    Unfortunately, "state" can't be used unambiguously to mean a sovereign political entity, because there are so many states that aren't sovereign (e.g. New York). I would guess "nation-state" has acquired it's current popular meaning because it is one of the few terms that unambiguously implies sovereignty, which is what the speaker is usually trying to emphasize.

ataturk 8y ago

I hope they work it out because (and this is going to sound racist, but I don't care) importing Somalis into the US is really not solving their problem and it is creating a whole shit-ton of new problems for Americans. I live around a lot of Somali people, so spare the fucking SJW, virtue signaling bullshit. They're people, they have issues and needs like all people. But damn man, they need to integrate and stop thinking that we exist to placate them and pick up after them. I don't see this attitude among other recent arrivals. I don't feel like Americans owe the people of the world anything. If they want to join our community, they can maintain their cultural heritage without being dicks about it.

phobosdeimos 8y ago

If other countries recognize your independence you are there. The US gained recognition from the Netherlands and France day one. Nobody gives a shit about Somaliland nor does anyone gain anything for supporting it.

m23khan 8y ago

Perhaps allow a major Western military power to come and establish a huge permanent base, and pray for some natural resources to be found might shorten the long road to independence. That and paying huge wads of cash to celebrity-turned-activists ($$$ not Somaliland cash bricks!!) to come and create heartbleed documentaries could potentially help their cause. Just sayin...

freedom_squared 8y ago

Somaliland is a customer of mine; I build national software and Somaliland is my second oldest customer. It’s cool to hear about their continued success on Hacker News. I like to think I played a small part in it. I hope that one day they achieve their dream of independence.

genieyclo 8y ago
How can I reach you to talk about this? From the area

tanbog 8y ago

In political theory and International Relations studies, there is a reasonably well established set of theories regarding the difference between "A nation", "A state" and a "Nation-State" the three are not synonymous and it irks me somewhat how even in an article like this the three seem to be conflated as I think it adds t everyone's confusion about things. Having said that, there is no "hegemon" (arbiter/judge/police/enforcer-of-rules) at international level so what is, or is not, a state is somewhat arbitrary and contingent on whatever power structures are at play at the time.