5 ms·

File a bug :)

by sddfd 8y ago

File a bug :)

blattimwind 8y ago
I guess nowadays you could even shim this (if you've got many pictures and do do it correctly, trading bandwidth against user's CPU time).
- 21 8y ago
  But you lose hardware acceleration. On a mobile this can matter.
  - amaranth 8y ago
    Maybe but I wouldn't be so sure. Mobile browsers today don't use JPEG hardware decoders and for a single frame HEVC isn't _that_ expensive to decode. I believe the argument is that hardware decoders are inconsistent (what you can decode successfully depends on what platform you're running on) and have high latency due to needing to pass the data back and forth to another chip in the system. For something like HEIF which also lets you store short videos as a replacement for animated GIFs you'd still want hardware decoding at least some of the time though.
- wongarsu 8y ago
  The website claims >Supported by most Web browsers with a small Javascript decoder (gzipped size: 56 KB). 56kb isn't particularly small, but for an image galary it might be worth it.
  - talloaktrees 8y ago
    When some websites are 5mb after all ad.content is loaded. It's doesn't seem that much
    - SahAssar 8y ago
      It isn't the size that is the problem as much as that it is on the critical path for every image that uses it and that it does not support progressive rendering or rendering parts of the image as the file is downloaded. go to https://bellard.org/bpg/lena.html https://bellard.org/bpg/lena.html and set your browser to throttle to GPRS speeds and you will see a pretty huge difference.
masklinn 8y ago
It's unlikely they'll care: browsers which don't want to deal with HEVC licensing aren't going to touch it (likely preferring AVIF), and browsers which are fine with HEVC licensing support the conceptually similar HEIC.
- pmoriarty 8y ago
  Could someone expand on this? What are HEVC, AVIF, and HEIC licensing and why are browsers partial to some over the others?
  - Dylan16807 8y ago
    The most common video compression right now is h.264, which has to be licensed but isn't super onerous. The newer, better version is called h.265 or HEVC. BPG is a way to use HEVC's single-frame encoding to store an image. HEIC is essentially the same thing, but supported by Apple. HEVC has ugly licensing, causing a lot of companies to come together to make their own license-free video format called AV1. AVIF is the image format based on AV1. So nobody wants to go near HEVC, and if they did they would support HEIC over BPG. AVIF might get support, if they think it will be used enough to be worth it.
  - ksec 8y ago
    HEIC is based on HEVC ( H.265 ), and therefore requires licensing and paying royalty before using it, most likely paid by Microsoft (Windows), Apple or any of your hardware manufacture. It could cost up to ( capped ) $100M per year for hardware manufacture. HEVC Advance Group has made software decoding royalty free. But you still have to paid MPEG Licensing and Velos Media. Because Apple and Microsoft likely has cross patent arrangement to most of the companies within the group, so it wouldn't matter much to them. But for everyone else, HEVC licensing is still a bag of hurt. AVIF is based on AV1, by Open Media Alliance lead by Google, is royalty free. ( But not patent free, please don't mixed this up ) It is new and the spec has only been released for no more then 6 weeks. Google doesn't want to pay the licensing, especially when the initial licensing terms for HEVC include cost per streaming. All of Youtube video requires VP9 ( the predecessor of AV1 ) for 2K+ resolution, and does not and likely will not ever include HEVC. Chrome does not support HEVC decoding even if you have hardware decoding. The same for Firefox. That is why the parent said BPG won't ever be included in browser, or Chrome and Firefox. M$ IE 11 / Edge and Safari both support HEVC.

File a bug :)

by sddfd 8y ago

File a bug :)

I guess nowadays you could even shim this (if you've got many pictures and do do it correctly, trading bandwidth against user's CPU time).

21 8y ago
But you lose hardware acceleration. On a mobile this can matter.
- amaranth 8y ago
  Maybe but I wouldn't be so sure. Mobile browsers today don't use JPEG hardware decoders and for a single frame HEVC isn't _that_ expensive to decode. I believe the argument is that hardware decoders are inconsistent (what you can decode successfully depends on what platform you're running on) and have high latency due to needing to pass the data back and forth to another chip in the system. For something like HEIF which also lets you store short videos as a replacement for animated GIFs you'd still want hardware decoding at least some of the time though.
wongarsu 8y ago
The website claims >Supported by most Web browsers with a small Javascript decoder (gzipped size: 56 KB). 56kb isn't particularly small, but for an image galary it might be worth it.
- talloaktrees 8y ago
  When some websites are 5mb after all ad.content is loaded. It's doesn't seem that much
  - SahAssar 8y ago
    It isn't the size that is the problem as much as that it is on the critical path for every image that uses it and that it does not support progressive rendering or rendering parts of the image as the file is downloaded. go to https://bellard.org/bpg/lena.html https://bellard.org/bpg/lena.html and set your browser to throttle to GPRS speeds and you will see a pretty huge difference.

masklinn 8y ago

It's unlikely they'll care: browsers which don't want to deal with HEVC licensing aren't going to touch it (likely preferring AVIF), and browsers which are fine with HEVC licensing support the conceptually similar HEIC.

pmoriarty 8y ago
Could someone expand on this? What are HEVC, AVIF, and HEIC licensing and why are browsers partial to some over the others?
- Dylan16807 8y ago
  The most common video compression right now is h.264, which has to be licensed but isn't super onerous. The newer, better version is called h.265 or HEVC. BPG is a way to use HEVC's single-frame encoding to store an image. HEIC is essentially the same thing, but supported by Apple. HEVC has ugly licensing, causing a lot of companies to come together to make their own license-free video format called AV1. AVIF is the image format based on AV1. So nobody wants to go near HEVC, and if they did they would support HEIC over BPG. AVIF might get support, if they think it will be used enough to be worth it.
- ksec 8y ago
  HEIC is based on HEVC ( H.265 ), and therefore requires licensing and paying royalty before using it, most likely paid by Microsoft (Windows), Apple or any of your hardware manufacture. It could cost up to ( capped ) $100M per year for hardware manufacture. HEVC Advance Group has made software decoding royalty free. But you still have to paid MPEG Licensing and Velos Media. Because Apple and Microsoft likely has cross patent arrangement to most of the companies within the group, so it wouldn't matter much to them. But for everyone else, HEVC licensing is still a bag of hurt. AVIF is based on AV1, by Open Media Alliance lead by Google, is royalty free. ( But not patent free, please don't mixed this up ) It is new and the spec has only been released for no more then 6 weeks. Google doesn't want to pay the licensing, especially when the initial licensing terms for HEVC include cost per streaming. All of Youtube video requires VP9 ( the predecessor of AV1 ) for 2K+ resolution, and does not and likely will not ever include HEVC. Chrome does not support HEVC decoding even if you have hardware decoding. The same for Firefox. That is why the parent said BPG won't ever be included in browser, or Chrome and Firefox. M$ IE 11 / Edge and Safari both support HEVC.