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Not trying to start a "town vs city" argument - to each their own, as you said - but I think people who don't live in big cities misunderstand what life is like
by jacobmoe 8y ago
Not trying to start a "town vs city" argument - to each their own, as you said - but I think people who don't live in big cities misunderstand what life is like there. In NYC you hear tourists say "I could never live here". The thing is, as someone who lives in New York, I also could never live here, if _here_ is Times Square or some other tourist hotspot. Cities are just collections of neighborhoods. In your neighborhood you recognize your neighbors and feel the same community spirit you would in any town. The difference is that you can get on a subway or bus and see people or have experiences that would require a trip to the airport somewhere else. But the real thing I love about city life are the opportunities you have every day to come into contact with people who are different than you. Going for a jog in the winter through a Hasidic neighborhood, an elderly man in a wheelchair is stuck in the snow, so I help him get to temple. A woman with a cane who has clearly had a very different life than me needs a seat on the subway, we make eye contact and I get up for her, she says thank you and I say no trouble. These small unavoidable collisions every day really do have an impact on how you see the world.
- b_b 8y agoThis is especially poignant in NYC, given the density and diversity of life here. Sometimes I think the NYC subway only seems fast because life changes so rapidly from city block to block that it seems like you've arrived in an entirely new place.
- rch 8y agoUnless the uptown C is delayed again, then you're just late.
- rbyrne 8y agoI second this. I grew up in the NYC suburbs, have went to school and lived in various boroughs of NYC for the past 10+ years, and my wife was born and raised in NYC. I think most people not from here (and perhaps 'here' can be any big city one may just pass through when visiting in this context I guess) seem to forget it's as you say just a collection of small neighborhoods just like anywhere else. I am sure there is an exception (maybe Midtown Manhattan but) - but for the most part I think most people know their neighbors, help each other out, see the same people around when they got to a bar or get coffee, go to the same parks in their neighborhood - all the same things people think you may miss out on vs living in 'small towns.'
- grogenaut 8y agoHave you lived in a all town like this article is talking about. Or just NYC burbs that this article isn't talking about.
- sturgill 8y agoI was in Brooklyn for 2.5 years living in South Slope just off of Prospect Park. Now I’m in a suburb of Birmingham, AL. I basically live in a forest. Have a 5 bedroom / 6 bathroom home that is significantly cheaper than my 3 bedroom / 1 bathroom apartment. Raising three kids, I am just so incredibly happy with life out here. My commute is a 10 min drive through beautiful woodlands in a comfortable car. Any time I get slightly annoyed by traffic, I remember jamming myself in a crowded subway where I’d be lodged between sweaty body parts of strangers for 45 min and I just grin. Public transportation is great, except for rush hours. And the nights and weekends scheduling. Don’t get me wrong: we loved our time in NY (and, like most people in NY we also hated it; it was a bipolar relationship). And my career might takes us back that way. But I hope not. It’s not really built for single income families raising multiple children. I’m perfectly happy if you’re happy with the city trade offs. Because they are just trade offs. But I prefer the trade offs of living in unincorporated county outside a small city.
- mlthoughts2018 8y agoI find these descriptions fascinating, because my experience of Park Slope is so different. Short walk to the R at Union Street, easy commute to midtown even during rush hour, rarely more than 25 minutes, almost always get a seat, enjoying a podcast or ebook, never have to worry about parking, snow removal, traffic, car repair, refilling gas. I grew up on what was practically a nature preserve in rural midwest, and I find Prospect Park is so beautiful, great for a walk or a jog, and has such a friendly community with the farmer’s market, weekend off-leash dog hours, kids programs, free BRIC concerts at the bandshell. I find quality of life solely on factors like enjoyment of nature, community belonging, diversity of activities, is just so, so much greater in New York. The direct access to private nature areas in the rural and suburban midwest has plenty of upsides, but truly was much less convenient, much less community-oriented, much less diverse in terms of both cultures and variety of free or cheap activities. I had similar experiences in Boston too. I joined a geocaching group that frequently met in Middlesex Fells. It’s borderline impossible to find such a group in the midwest that actually has meaningfully large membership and meaningfully diverse variety of people regularly participating. I do agree that one has to weigh the cost tradeoffs carefully with cities. But I think what you get out of a big city is very different than the way you put it. It’s more about the vibrancy and diversity of the community, and that you can find inclusiveness no matter what walk of life you come from.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- rch 8y agoYou've done some cherry picking with your examples, and I would postulate that your innate tolerance (or possibly desire) for the full spectrum of unavoidable social collisions probably influenced your decision to live in NYC. Having lived in Manhattan I appreciate being able to visit when I like, for as long as I choose (working remotely).
- seanmcdirmid 8y agoHuh? The cherry picking goes both ways I guess. For those places where people actually live in NYC, you’ll find parks and even parking, sidewalk cafes, cleanish air, beaches, even deer, etc... it seems scary to those who only visit, but it is completely livable to those that actually live there. NYC is much larger than Manhattan.
- infinite8s 8y agoAnd you can even find all those in Manhattan (well maybe not the benches).
- jacobmoe 8y agoYeah, the question is "do cities attract people high on the 'openness to experience' spectrum, or do they make people that way". I don't think we can know for sure, but I suspect there is a little of both going on. I'm reluctant to be a complete relativist about these things, even though I recognize that I'm biased. The fact is that a demogogue who wants to drive a wedge of fear between people (no need to state who I'm talking about) has a much harder time doing it in cities. All perspectives arent equal in this respect - some perspectives are based on ignorance and fear, and some are based on the actual experience of interacting with the kinds of people we're supposed to be afraid of.
- rch 8y agoAll due respect, but it's hubris to conflate an affection for the urban lifestyle with being "high on the 'openness to experience' spectrum". There was even a story on HN just in the last few days exploring the biases in the research used to support that notion. As to the high correlation between population density and political affiliation, I don't see that as being particularly mysterious, even if it is a complex topic. And having recently hosted a fundraiser for a prominent progressive candidate I can attest that fear is being effectively employed across the entire electorate.
- victor106 8y agoAgree with everything you say. Been living in nyc on/off since the past 10 years. I love it. One terrible thing about nyc is the subway. It’s been getting worse every year.
- grogenaut 8y agoAnd yet you do what every new Yorker does... "Not to make this story that is not about new youk about New York but really if you've never lived there it's souch better I really wish people would take the time to understand New York better". This article isn't a about nor does it require defend of living in NYC or it's people. Your property value isn't going down because 3 people move to Ohio The irony being you refuse to or are side tracking the thread and conversation immediately to talk about how misunderstood NYC is. NYC doesn't need defending, millions live there. Tons of articles about it constantly. Media made there, hyped to infinity. It's not the topic of the article either. What I noticed is many people from NYC only see other places as not NYC and complain about how they aren't. Talk about the article and the virtues of a small town. Have you ever lived in one or are you just a NYC snob like the lady was for Truckee? Discuss the article not threadjack it to extoll NYC. Sure you know plenty of people on the street. Do you know 80% of them like you did in highschool? No, you don't, you don't know your whole burough. That's the point of know lots of people. Not everything needs to be about you or NYC or defended. Many people here barely know small towns are an option or how cheap and welcoming they can be. Not everyone needs to eat waygu steak every day... Chicken and tofu are also fantastic in their own ways.
- jacobmoe 8y agoI was responding to a comment, not to the post. Didn't know tangents aren't allowed here. You're right - New Yorkers can be insufferable. I was just pointing out what I like about living in big cities. I'm sure you have preferences that you sometimes justify with arguments to people that don't understand the reasons for your preferences.
- grogenaut 8y agoNo I just like rational discourse based on experience and people who know when they're being biased. I thought you were responding direct to the article. Misnest read. Meaculpa. My problem with your comment stems from me feeling you haven't lived in a small town ever and so only see it from the side of NYC as many big city and small town folks both do. NYC is a crime ridden cesspool with no parking. NYC is a walkers Utopia with tons of culture. Small towns are filled with Hicks who know nothing. Small towns are filled with many self sufficient who have a direct and obvious impact on the community and I know them like family (and like family I hate about 30% of them)
- patagonia 8y agoI think you missed the point of the parent comment. And I think you are making a “town vs city” argument. In fairness, so is the parent comment. But the parent wasn’t saying “towns are better than cities”, the parent was just saying it’s refreshing to see an article highlighting the pros of the town as compared to the city, which are often overlooked during this type of discussion. I lived in NYC (read, Manhattan) for 4 years. Sorry but if you’re saying you lived in “the City” and you’re talking to non New Yorkers, the other boroughs don’t count cause they are equally unique in their living experience when compared to non NYC living. For instance you mention jogging through a Hasidic neighborhood and I instantly know you are 90% not talking about Manhattan and I also know what Hasidic means (I would venture to guess most Americans do not). I see your Hasidic name dropping and raise you a, I converted to Reform Judaism at Central Synagogue in the City, and there wasn’t even a threat of marriage involved. I say all of that to make the point that I still agree with the parent’s comment, so much so that I now live in Texas. There came a moment where I had to choose between making work my life, so that I could afford a decent life for myself and any family I would eventually maybe have, or I could make my life my priority, which would mean sometimes not prioritizing decisions that impacted an upward trajectory for my paycheck. If you live in the City and you didn’t arrive there with a trust fund or pre existing network, and even then, you still have to prioritize work, then you’re not gonna have enough money to have a decent sized home (you will still not have a yard) and if you choose to own a car that will be a sizeable expense and you won’t be able to afford family expenses or possible downturns in the economy. Period. Contrast that to my life in Austin (still a fairly expensive city) where I have a one bedroom to myself that is $500 less than the (actual) bedroom I was renting in the City, an SUV, that I use to tow my sailboat, which I use to go sailing with my friends cause I have free time. And if the economy tanks, I don’t fear I’ll go bankrupt if I don’t get a job in 3 months since I can have savings and there is no state income tax and no city (NYC) tax. And since other people enjoy much the same lifestyle I can develop actual, sincere, non transactional relationships with people since we’re not all jockeying for professional advancement, transient, or tying to get laid every night to fill the vacuum in our soul caused by the lack of real relationships. (But there is 6th street, if one gets the urge). And we have parks. And we have an awesome economy. Etc etc. Yes I understand Austin is not a small town. It’s a good compromise for me. My sister lives in a legit small town a short drive from here. Much like the small city I was raised in, Kingsville. Anyhow. Very much agree with the parent comment. And tired of people romanticizing the City, like name dropping, and not being called out on it.
- losvedir 8y agoOr, people do understand and yet still don't like it. I've lived in New York City and also had those superficial interactions with people different from me. But like the person you're responding to, I much prefer my current life of remote work from a rural town in the South, for all the reasons in the original comment. It just felt like your comment, despite reiterating the parent's "to each their own" caveat, was either a total non sequitur or pushing the perspective that if you don't like city life you must just not understand it.
- jacobmoe 8y agoI've elicited some strong reactions here. The commenter I responded to said this: > When I read the stories of big city lifestyles I'm amazed so many people opt-in to it. Traffic, noise, concrete everywhere. Yuck - but to each their own. I was simply explaining some of _my_ reasons for opting in to it. It's a tangent from the original post, I realize. I could easily come up with reasons a person might enjoy a rural or small town lifestyle, but here I simply gave my reasons for enjoying the urban life I currently live, even though I too have the option of going the remote work route. No offense intended.
- losvedir 8y agoSorry, I missed that part of the comment you responded to, and how it implies knowledge of big cities only via what they read and not personal experience. In that light your comment wasn't a non sequitur and was a fair response.
- mlevental 8y ago>had those superficial interactions with people different from me sorry why do you presume they're superficial? or i should sat why do you exalt your small town interactions over someone else's big-town interactions? i've lived in both a smalltown (currently) and brooklyn ny (previously) and the depth of the interactions is absolutely about the same. btw we can all play presumptuous and haughty: in your "tight-knit" community no one will help you/acknowledge you as soon as you diverge from highly constrained cultural norms even a small iota - where as in my diverse working class neighborhood in brooklyn that wouldn't be the case. what do you say? not true? color me just as suspicious as you color yourself if i claim to you that i actually had deep and genuine conversations with my neighbors, grocers, and occasionally fellow subway riders.
- redler 8y ago“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness.” — Mark Twain And as you point out, living in a big city can be akin to traveling.
- starpilot 8y ago> I think that New York is the new model for the new concentration camp, where the camp has been built by the inmates themselves, and the inmates are the guards, and they have this pride in this thing that they’ve built—they’ve built their own prison—and so they exist in a state of schizophrenia where they are both guards and prisoners. And as a result they no longer have—having been lobotomized—the capacity to leave the prison they’ve made or even to see it as a prison. My Dinner with Andre > [In NYC he heard] the enormous hiss of egos at various stages of inflation and deflation DFW
- sharadov 8y agoNo better way of describing it, as someone who recently moved from LA to San Jose, I miss those daily random interactions with people who are completely different from you, I believe it keeps you forever open-minded. And the ability to take an UBER and go to a K-town, Little Tokyo or a little Armenia in less than 20 mins..nothing ever beats that.