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This is similar to the stereotype of: young people are good with computers. Browsing Instagram is not the same as creating value through programming and complex

This is similar to the stereotype of: young people are good with computers. Browsing Instagram is not the same as creating value through programming and complex problem solving.

NullPrefix 8y ago
Watching TV makes you good with RF.
- whatshisface 8y ago
  Watching TV in the 50s made you good with knob adjustment and basic electronics maintenance, just because things tended to break and also tended to break in fixable ways. The same thing is true today, kids that play Minecraft aren't getting any better with computers by clicking on blocks, they are getting better by doing the things necessary to keep the blocks there in front of them (because if you want to install mods or run a server for your friends for example Minecraft becomes about as reliable as an early TV).
  - userbinator 8y ago
    Watching TV in the 50s made you good with knob adjustment and basic electronics maintenance, just because things tended to break and also tended to break in fixable ways. In particular, tube replacement was pretty common DIY and even nonspecialist corner stores would sell tubes and have self-service testers: http://travelphotobase.com/v/USOK/OKCH66.HTM http://travelphotobase.com/v/USOK/OKCH66.HTM In similar analogy, I wonder how many people today know how to replace a lightbulb and will do it themselves, and what that would be like in a few decades...
    - whatshisface 8y ago
      Embedded computers have done a lot to ruin automotive DIY. Someone should write a short story where nobody can change their low-failure-rate LED light bulbs without calling a technician who has a programmer card with the right IoT private keys. Electric utilities are no longer common-carier and underground cyberpunk "Edisons" fabricate incandscents that disguise themselves as toasters on the grid in order to circumvent the expensive licensing deals between lightbulb manufacturers and power companies.
strken 8y ago
I've always felt that young people are seen as good with computers because they're more confident and less afraid of failure, and that even if their only experience is instagram they're more likely to google a scary error message or click around at random in various menus.
- some_account 8y ago
  It's because old timers are much more afraid to look bad since you are "supposed" to live up to that external image you put on LinkedIn. :)
- megaman22 8y ago
  I'm not sure that that is the case, any longer. I have a lot of trouble with our college-aged interns, because they will barely make an effort to try doing something before getting stonewalled and bailing out to go ask someone to do it for them. Sometimes I just want to yell at them to run the code and see what happens, and then try to figure out why what happened happened. And these are computer science majors.
  - LyndsySimon 8y ago
    Maybe they need someone to yell at them to break them out of their comfort zone and learn something new. They might find they enjoy it or even that they’re good at it once they do it. It’s human nature to feel like the next generation is coddled, of course. Maybe the real problem is that the current generation isn’t as capable of instruction as previous ones.
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > doing something before getting stonewalled and bailing out to go ask someone to do it for them Funny this is the problem. One of my major life lessons was learning not to always persevere, and to ask for help as soon as possible. Solves more problems faster, teaches you more ways of looking at a problem and smoothly scales to delegation.
    - 8y ago
conception 8y ago
Likewise with the Japanese living in the land of the future in the 90s-00's. I found there that people having access to tech was much much different than being technical. Fancy phones but few personal computers or the skills that go along with them.
gaius 8y ago
The BBC love to divide the population into “digital immigrants” and “digital natives”, always with the subtext that the “natives” are superior. But their so-called journalists can’t even understand that the “digital immigrants” that they sneer at actually built everything and the “natives” are mere consumers
- cm2187 8y ago
  Agree. Though if we think about it, kids who were computer savy in the 90s were certainly more technologically sophisticated than computer savy kids now (when you have to actually install TCP/IP it makes you learn what it is!). But the population of kids with daily access to computers then was much lower than today. So now you have a much bigger base which on average is less technical, but because of its cheer size, there is probably a much greater absolute population of sophisticated kids now than 20y ago.
aaronmdjones 8y ago
Related: http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/ http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-co...
- michaelmrose 8y ago
  I was just about to post this so I guess I'll just upvote this instead.

This is similar to the stereotype of: young people are good with computers. Browsing Instagram is not the same as creating value through programming and complex problem solving.

NullPrefix 8y ago

Watching TV makes you good with RF.

whatshisface 8y ago
Watching TV in the 50s made you good with knob adjustment and basic electronics maintenance, just because things tended to break and also tended to break in fixable ways. The same thing is true today, kids that play Minecraft aren't getting any better with computers by clicking on blocks, they are getting better by doing the things necessary to keep the blocks there in front of them (because if you want to install mods or run a server for your friends for example Minecraft becomes about as reliable as an early TV).
- userbinator 8y ago
  Watching TV in the 50s made you good with knob adjustment and basic electronics maintenance, just because things tended to break and also tended to break in fixable ways. In particular, tube replacement was pretty common DIY and even nonspecialist corner stores would sell tubes and have self-service testers: http://travelphotobase.com/v/USOK/OKCH66.HTM http://travelphotobase.com/v/USOK/OKCH66.HTM In similar analogy, I wonder how many people today know how to replace a lightbulb and will do it themselves, and what that would be like in a few decades...
  - whatshisface 8y ago
    Embedded computers have done a lot to ruin automotive DIY. Someone should write a short story where nobody can change their low-failure-rate LED light bulbs without calling a technician who has a programmer card with the right IoT private keys. Electric utilities are no longer common-carier and underground cyberpunk "Edisons" fabricate incandscents that disguise themselves as toasters on the grid in order to circumvent the expensive licensing deals between lightbulb manufacturers and power companies.

strken 8y ago

I've always felt that young people are seen as good with computers because they're more confident and less afraid of failure, and that even if their only experience is instagram they're more likely to google a scary error message or click around at random in various menus.

some_account 8y ago
It's because old timers are much more afraid to look bad since you are "supposed" to live up to that external image you put on LinkedIn. :)
megaman22 8y ago
I'm not sure that that is the case, any longer. I have a lot of trouble with our college-aged interns, because they will barely make an effort to try doing something before getting stonewalled and bailing out to go ask someone to do it for them. Sometimes I just want to yell at them to run the code and see what happens, and then try to figure out why what happened happened. And these are computer science majors.
- LyndsySimon 8y ago
  Maybe they need someone to yell at them to break them out of their comfort zone and learn something new. They might find they enjoy it or even that they’re good at it once they do it. It’s human nature to feel like the next generation is coddled, of course. Maybe the real problem is that the current generation isn’t as capable of instruction as previous ones.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > doing something before getting stonewalled and bailing out to go ask someone to do it for them Funny this is the problem. One of my major life lessons was learning not to always persevere, and to ask for help as soon as possible. Solves more problems faster, teaches you more ways of looking at a problem and smoothly scales to delegation.
  - 8y ago

conception 8y ago

Likewise with the Japanese living in the land of the future in the 90s-00's. I found there that people having access to tech was much much different than being technical. Fancy phones but few personal computers or the skills that go along with them.

gaius 8y ago

The BBC love to divide the population into “digital immigrants” and “digital natives”, always with the subtext that the “natives” are superior. But their so-called journalists can’t even understand that the “digital immigrants” that they sneer at actually built everything and the “natives” are mere consumers

cm2187 8y ago
Agree. Though if we think about it, kids who were computer savy in the 90s were certainly more technologically sophisticated than computer savy kids now (when you have to actually install TCP/IP it makes you learn what it is!). But the population of kids with daily access to computers then was much lower than today. So now you have a much bigger base which on average is less technical, but because of its cheer size, there is probably a much greater absolute population of sophisticated kids now than 20y ago.

aaronmdjones 8y ago

Related: http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/ http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-co...

michaelmrose 8y ago
I was just about to post this so I guess I'll just upvote this instead.