5 ms·

Isn't this not so much an issue with the Macbook itself but with this generation of processors? Yeah, when it gets hot (and it runs hotter) it will throttle. Th

Isn't this not so much an issue with the Macbook itself but with this generation of processors? Yeah, when it gets hot (and it runs hotter) it will throttle. The Apple reality distortion field only works on people -- it doesn't do much against thermodynamics. It seems a little misplaced to rail against Apple as if this is a design flaw. That's how this CPU will perform even in a completely different form factor without sufficient cooling. Want to prevent throttling? Here's a big heatsink with a couple fans attached to it. Want even more cooling? Here's a tank of water and a giant radiator. Want a slim form factor and an i9? It's going to throttle because it will get hot when you actually use it for something that makes use of that processor. Unless you live where I live and want to use the computer outside in the winter when it's -20F.

pasbesoin 8y ago
If the i9 profile doesn't fit what is approaching an ultrabook, then don't try to put it into that ultrabook. If your customers want an i9, be more honest with them. Don't just sell them what ends up being a crippled i9. If Intel could make an i9 that burned less, I'm sure they'd be happy to. (Well, at least now, given their increased need to compete.) I guess in that regard, you could "blame" Intel. If AMD really has pulled ahead in the race to 7 and 5 nm, interconnect data throughput, and whatever else.
- rhizome 8y ago
  If your customers want an i9, be more honest with them. Exactly. We accepted (or endured, but it wasn't a mystery) the DDR3 limit of 16GB in laptops for years after the desire for more arose.
- dguaraglia 8y ago
  This is the part I don't understand. Apple has been pushing for thinner and thinner laptops on the Pro line, when all I want is a laptop that can run a workload without throttling immediately, a good keyboard and a reasonable battery (that's the one thing they still do well, considering the legal cap on battery sizes). This is totally my personal opinion, but the MacBook Pro 2015 was the perfect laptop. I still use one as my main driver, and I'm agonizing on what my next (long overdue!) move will be.
larrik 8y ago
The heat may be Intel, but the ventilation and cooling is all Apple. Maybe they shouldn't sacrifice performance for aesthetics and then advertise impossible performance.
- kevin_b_er 8y ago
  The term I use for this is Form Over Function and is a very Apple thing to do.
ISL 8y ago
The issue is with a potential mismatch of expectation and reality. When a customer sees "i9" they expect to be able to get the performance of which the i9 is capable. If I were to purchase a laptop with an i9, I'd expect to be able to run full-throttle numerical simulations and data analysis on it. If I didn't plan to do that, I wouldn't have purchased a fast chip.
save_ferris 8y ago
How is this not on Apple? Surely a company with the resources that Apple does could and should have done more than just throw a new processor in the chassis and ship it. Instead, they went with the laziest approach and advertise the new specs knowing that they can't reasonably be achieved consistently. Frankly, this feels like false advertising to me. If I'm going to drop $3k on a MacBook with a Core-i9 chip that flies, I better get what I paid for. And clearly people aren't. They should've redesigned the chassis to address this, but instead they got caught shipping a subpar product. So "brave"...
- j-c-hewitt 8y ago
  I guess that's really the issue then. If you're familiar with the properties of these processors then you will not be surprised about the thermal complaints. If you aren't then you will be surprised. No it's not worth $3000 but it's also not possible to get the most out of that chip in any environment without a physically large cooling system. I think people who buy it because they want to be the kind of person who buys a $3000 laptop will be happy with it. The kind of person who wants $3000 performance would be better off buying something that isn't a laptop.
walrus01 8y ago
> Isn't this not so much an issue with the Macbook itself but with this generation of processors? Yeah, when it gets hot (and it runs hotter) it will throttle CPUs have very specific TDP figures in their manufacturer datasheets, the problem is with laptop makers trying to cram too much wattage into a package that is too thin and light.
oh_sigh 8y ago
> misplaced to rail against Apple as if this is a design flaw. That's how this CPU will perform even in a completely different form factor without sufficient cooling Isn't sufficient cooling a design decision by apple?
- j-c-hewitt 8y ago
  No one is going to buy a fat Macbook with giant fans. They will buy a $3000 laptop with a CPU that can't run at full speed that looks cool. There is no magical cooling system that takes up no space that would allow that processor in an MBP form factor to run at full turbo all the time.
  - oh_sigh 8y ago
    Of course, but then they shouldn't advertise chip specs that are unobtainable in their designs. It would be like a car manufacturer saying "The engine in this sedan can take you from 0 to 60 in 2.4 seconds", and then later finding out that they meant if the engine was mounted on a 300 lbs PVC frame, and not the actual frame of the car they were advertising when they told you that fact.
    - j-c-hewitt 8y ago
      It's exactly that.
spronkey 8y ago
Yes let's all blame Intel for producing the fastest and most powerful 45W TDP processor ever, that has literally no rivals. How dare they.

pasbesoin 8y ago

If the i9 profile doesn't fit what is approaching an ultrabook, then don't try to put it into that ultrabook. If your customers want an i9, be more honest with them. Don't just sell them what ends up being a crippled i9. If Intel could make an i9 that burned less, I'm sure they'd be happy to. (Well, at least now, given their increased need to compete.) I guess in that regard, you could "blame" Intel. If AMD really has pulled ahead in the race to 7 and 5 nm, interconnect data throughput, and whatever else.

rhizome 8y ago
If your customers want an i9, be more honest with them. Exactly. We accepted (or endured, but it wasn't a mystery) the DDR3 limit of 16GB in laptops for years after the desire for more arose.
dguaraglia 8y ago
This is the part I don't understand. Apple has been pushing for thinner and thinner laptops on the Pro line, when all I want is a laptop that can run a workload without throttling immediately, a good keyboard and a reasonable battery (that's the one thing they still do well, considering the legal cap on battery sizes). This is totally my personal opinion, but the MacBook Pro 2015 was the perfect laptop. I still use one as my main driver, and I'm agonizing on what my next (long overdue!) move will be.

larrik 8y ago

The heat may be Intel, but the ventilation and cooling is all Apple. Maybe they shouldn't sacrifice performance for aesthetics and then advertise impossible performance.

kevin_b_er 8y ago
The term I use for this is Form Over Function and is a very Apple thing to do.

ISL 8y ago

The issue is with a potential mismatch of expectation and reality. When a customer sees "i9" they expect to be able to get the performance of which the i9 is capable. If I were to purchase a laptop with an i9, I'd expect to be able to run full-throttle numerical simulations and data analysis on it. If I didn't plan to do that, I wouldn't have purchased a fast chip.

save_ferris 8y ago

How is this not on Apple? Surely a company with the resources that Apple does could and should have done more than just throw a new processor in the chassis and ship it. Instead, they went with the laziest approach and advertise the new specs knowing that they can't reasonably be achieved consistently. Frankly, this feels like false advertising to me. If I'm going to drop $3k on a MacBook with a Core-i9 chip that flies, I better get what I paid for. And clearly people aren't. They should've redesigned the chassis to address this, but instead they got caught shipping a subpar product. So "brave"...

j-c-hewitt 8y ago
I guess that's really the issue then. If you're familiar with the properties of these processors then you will not be surprised about the thermal complaints. If you aren't then you will be surprised. No it's not worth $3000 but it's also not possible to get the most out of that chip in any environment without a physically large cooling system. I think people who buy it because they want to be the kind of person who buys a $3000 laptop will be happy with it. The kind of person who wants $3000 performance would be better off buying something that isn't a laptop.

walrus01 8y ago

> Isn't this not so much an issue with the Macbook itself but with this generation of processors? Yeah, when it gets hot (and it runs hotter) it will throttle CPUs have very specific TDP figures in their manufacturer datasheets, the problem is with laptop makers trying to cram too much wattage into a package that is too thin and light.

oh_sigh 8y ago

> misplaced to rail against Apple as if this is a design flaw. That's how this CPU will perform even in a completely different form factor without sufficient cooling Isn't sufficient cooling a design decision by apple?

j-c-hewitt 8y ago
No one is going to buy a fat Macbook with giant fans. They will buy a $3000 laptop with a CPU that can't run at full speed that looks cool. There is no magical cooling system that takes up no space that would allow that processor in an MBP form factor to run at full turbo all the time.
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  Of course, but then they shouldn't advertise chip specs that are unobtainable in their designs. It would be like a car manufacturer saying "The engine in this sedan can take you from 0 to 60 in 2.4 seconds", and then later finding out that they meant if the engine was mounted on a 300 lbs PVC frame, and not the actual frame of the car they were advertising when they told you that fact.
  - j-c-hewitt 8y ago
    It's exactly that.

spronkey 8y ago

Yes let's all blame Intel for producing the fastest and most powerful 45W TDP processor ever, that has literally no rivals. How dare they.