4 ms·

Also I can't really muster any sympathy if a company is punished for having spent "billions of dollars at significant risk" to develop something intentionally a

by pluma 8y ago

Also I can't really muster any sympathy if a company is punished for having spent "billions of dollars at significant risk" to develop something intentionally anti-competitive. That's like saying "but we spent a lot of money on really expensive lawyers to evade those taxes" when charged with tax evasion.

garmaine 8y ago
Why would google develop Android otherwise?
- adventured 8y ago
  The Google Android skeptics would prefer exactly that. Their ideal is that Android - as we know it today - collapses and Google loses its position with the product and in the mobile market. The fantasy is that then a truly free, pure, saintly solution can spring up and smite the evil money grubbing commercial interests. That's likely to have about as much success as desktop Linux among mass consumers (and for the same reason). The sole thing that collapsing Google's Android position will do, is redistribute a lot of that market power and tech ecosystem benefit to a few other US tech giants, some Chinese tech giants and possibly to a lesser extent to some European players and Samsung. The US would net lose a considerable hegemony. As such, the US Government - State Dept, NSA, CIA, et al. - should get involved on a strategic economic security basis, and attack a very large EU company in a manner that is crippling (something worse than the Volkswagen emissions hit). We're in the midst of an economic war with the EU, the more vicious parts of the US Government need to start getting involved. At a minimum, find an excuse to perhaps take down eg Deutsche Bank, it's particularly weak, so a $10 or $15 billion invented magic fine would probably be enough to force its collapse and nationalization.
  - IBM 8y ago
    This is a Google talking point, and a laughable one at that. The list of complainants is full of American companies. Here's DuckDuckGo for example: https://twitter.com/DuckDuckGo/status/1019562507294461953 https://twitter.com/DuckDuckGo/status/1019562507294461953
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    Despite what the administration wants you to believe, we are not at "economic war" with our closest allies and trading partners.
  - craigsmansion 8y ago
    > The Google Android skeptics would prefer exactly that. Citation needed. > The fantasy is [..] evil money grubbing commercial interests. What are you even on about? >desktop Linux What does "desktop Linux" have to do with anything in this context? > The US would net lose [..] hegemony [..] State Dept, NSA, CIA, et al. - should get involved [..] an economic war with the EU ... Or, less bat-shit insane, the US government could look at how different blocs implement anti-trust and consumer protection, and extend those to its own citizens. > invented magic fine Or Google could just have obeyed the law, American.
  - fauigerzigerk 8y ago
    The US has already fined Deutsche Bank $7.2bn and BNP Paribas $8.9bn. At the time, many in Europe felt that the fines were excessive and that the existential threats used to discourage the use of the courts amounted to extortion. It was also seen by some as a form of protectionism. If we don't want to descend into nationalist mudslinging (or even war mongering) we have to consider each individual case based on its own merits. I think at least here on Hacker News we owe each other as much.
    - s73v3r_ 8y ago
      I don't see why we'd owe each other that much here as opposed to everywhere else in our lives.
      - fauigerzigerk 8y ago
        That's why I said "at least here", i.e not opposed to everywhere else, but my expectations of a very international community like this one with an analytical bent are higher than of some other places I had in mind. Anyway, you are right of course that we do owe each other that everywhere.
  - lovich 8y ago
    I personally enjoy how Google, Apple, Microsoft, et al are American companies when Europe fines them, and then are magically Irish companies when it's tax day in the US.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  Cause they don't want to be beholden to Apple in the mobile space.
  - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
    More like Microsoft. Google's nightmare was that Microsoft would control the mobile phone OS, and would use it to drive search results to Bing.
    - s73v3r_ 8y ago
      At the time, Apple had the dominant smartphone, not Microsoft.
      - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
        True. But Microsoft was coming. They were not yet clearly a loser in phones.

by pluma 8y ago

garmaine 8y ago

Why would google develop Android otherwise?

adventured 8y ago
The Google Android skeptics would prefer exactly that. Their ideal is that Android - as we know it today - collapses and Google loses its position with the product and in the mobile market. The fantasy is that then a truly free, pure, saintly solution can spring up and smite the evil money grubbing commercial interests. That's likely to have about as much success as desktop Linux among mass consumers (and for the same reason). The sole thing that collapsing Google's Android position will do, is redistribute a lot of that market power and tech ecosystem benefit to a few other US tech giants, some Chinese tech giants and possibly to a lesser extent to some European players and Samsung. The US would net lose a considerable hegemony. As such, the US Government - State Dept, NSA, CIA, et al. - should get involved on a strategic economic security basis, and attack a very large EU company in a manner that is crippling (something worse than the Volkswagen emissions hit). We're in the midst of an economic war with the EU, the more vicious parts of the US Government need to start getting involved. At a minimum, find an excuse to perhaps take down eg Deutsche Bank, it's particularly weak, so a $10 or $15 billion invented magic fine would probably be enough to force its collapse and nationalization.
- IBM 8y ago
  This is a Google talking point, and a laughable one at that. The list of complainants is full of American companies. Here's DuckDuckGo for example: https://twitter.com/DuckDuckGo/status/1019562507294461953 https://twitter.com/DuckDuckGo/status/1019562507294461953
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  Despite what the administration wants you to believe, we are not at "economic war" with our closest allies and trading partners.
- craigsmansion 8y ago
  > The Google Android skeptics would prefer exactly that. Citation needed. > The fantasy is [..] evil money grubbing commercial interests. What are you even on about? >desktop Linux What does "desktop Linux" have to do with anything in this context? > The US would net lose [..] hegemony [..] State Dept, NSA, CIA, et al. - should get involved [..] an economic war with the EU ... Or, less bat-shit insane, the US government could look at how different blocs implement anti-trust and consumer protection, and extend those to its own citizens. > invented magic fine Or Google could just have obeyed the law, American.
- fauigerzigerk 8y ago
  The US has already fined Deutsche Bank $7.2bn and BNP Paribas $8.9bn. At the time, many in Europe felt that the fines were excessive and that the existential threats used to discourage the use of the courts amounted to extortion. It was also seen by some as a form of protectionism. If we don't want to descend into nationalist mudslinging (or even war mongering) we have to consider each individual case based on its own merits. I think at least here on Hacker News we owe each other as much.
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    I don't see why we'd owe each other that much here as opposed to everywhere else in our lives.
    - fauigerzigerk 8y ago
      That's why I said "at least here", i.e not opposed to everywhere else, but my expectations of a very international community like this one with an analytical bent are higher than of some other places I had in mind. Anyway, you are right of course that we do owe each other that everywhere.
- lovich 8y ago
  I personally enjoy how Google, Apple, Microsoft, et al are American companies when Europe fines them, and then are magically Irish companies when it's tax day in the US.
s73v3r_ 8y ago
Cause they don't want to be beholden to Apple in the mobile space.
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  More like Microsoft. Google's nightmare was that Microsoft would control the mobile phone OS, and would use it to drive search results to Bing.
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    At the time, Apple had the dominant smartphone, not Microsoft.
    - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
      True. But Microsoft was coming. They were not yet clearly a loser in phones.