6 ms·

The men and women who brought curry to Birmingham

33 points by okket 8y ago

overcast 8y ago
The use of the term "curry" drives me nuts. It's just an all encompassing word for Indian food, culminating in that dreadful "curry powder" spice blend the Brits came up with. Spend some actual time in India, and you'll see there is an infinite number of sauces and flavors.
- j45 8y ago
  Co signed. No such thing as curry. It is a popular term in England though and one of the few ways communal bread was broken in an otherwise extremely immigrant unfriendly UK in the 70's and 80s. (see Southhall riots). Currying food may be a style but not in any way indicative of a particular dish. Curry might be one of originally appropriated/invented terms not too unlike Yoga and Chai.
  - JoeSmithson 8y ago
    Yes, "curry" is a British meal invented by British people (British-Asian) in Britain. I read a funny article a few years ago about British Indian people going to India for the first time to visit relatives and really looking forward to the amazing currys they would be able to get out there (surely better than the knockoffs we get here??). They were very disappointed to discover what British people call "an Indian" is nothing like the food Indian people eat.
    - j45 8y ago
      There is also a curry plant that is unrelated to all of this. In the UK when we hear Balti, it literally means bucket.
      - robotresearcher 8y ago
        I love that there is a nice short word for a bucket of curry.
    - ummonk 8y ago
      It's also interesting to consider that many of the standard ingredients in Indian dishes (chili peppers, potatoes, and tomatoes) are not indigenous and were only introduced from the New World by Portuguese traders within the past 500 years.
    - ggg9990 8y ago
      That's like when I had Chinese food in China. Nothing like Chinese food in America. I'm sure if I had never had either the real stuff would have been better, but I was hoping for a better version of the comfort food I remember from my childhood.
      - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        That’s funny because sichuanese food in Beijing is nothing like sichuanese food in Sichuan. Try even ordering Kung Pao chicken in chengdu... American or European (or Indian or Thai) style Chinese food is just another regional variant, of which there are many in China.
- mc32 8y ago
  Curry in Japan and curry in Thailand and curry in Vietnam have quite predictable meanings.
  - overcast 8y ago
    Yeh sure, a dish of vegetables, and or meat that comes with a sauce. There a million different types of sauces. Curry just isn't a thing you ask for, and get the same thing every time.
- alkonaut 8y ago
  To me the term Curry just means “spice mix” in some form (paste, dry) or in the context of cooked food, a sauce based on such a mix. It’s important to remember that when people talk about ”Indian food” in the western world, we usually mean the British adopted version, not the authentic stuff. Similar to how many use the term ”mexican food” when they talk about the food more properly named “Tex-Mex” Perhaps there should be a Tex-Mex type term for UK-style Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi dishes that isn’t just “Curries” or “Indian”.
  - wavefunction 8y ago
    >”Indian food” in the western world, we usually mean the British adopted version That seems to be the contention of Brits, at least, though it's a claim fraught with much contention. Many of the early Indian immigrants to the US were Punjabi and so it is the dishes or variations of Punjabi cuisine that are considered icons of "Indian food" in the US. With subsequent waves of immigration from Kerala and other regions of India and growing pressure to differentiate many more regionally-focused places have sprung up in the US, at least for the general public. A Chettinad restaurant recently opened near me, though I've yet to try it.
  - ben_w 8y ago
    > Perhaps there should be a Tex-Mex type term for UK-style Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi dishes that isn’t just “Curries” or “Indian”. Given the history, the obvious name may also be… contentious: “Empire food”
- kerrsclyde 8y ago
  The best show I've seen which educates us Brits on authentic Indian food is Rick Stein's India BBC series, the book has some wonderful recipes in too - perhaps not authentic UK takeaway though.
- Angostura 8y ago
  Good news! we don't just use 'curry' for indian foods, we'll use it for any most hot aromatic food that comes to the East of us. Thai, Indonesian etc etc.
- okket 8y ago
  Can we agree on that "curry" dishes are effing tasty?
  - vram22 8y ago
    Agreement not required. It's like a law of nature.
- osrec 8y ago
  While it doesn't drive me nuts, I see where you're coming from. It's actually taken from the Indian word 'kadhi', where the 'dh' sounds a bit like an 'r' if you roll the 'd'. Western settlers were unable to pronounce the 'dh' correctly, so they ended up calling it curry. Also, kadhi is a very specific dish in North and South India, but outside of India, it's become the general term for anything with a spicy sauce.
  - vram22 8y ago
    >While it doesn't drive me nuts, I see where you're coming from. It's actually taken from the Indian word 'kadhi' AFAIK, kadhi is the Marathi and Hindi word for a specific dish, made mainly of heated buttermilk with spices in it, eaten with rice and other things, or had as a drink. So what you say seems unlikely to be the origin of the bigger umbrella term curry as used in English in the West (and also some in India, where we informally say we had aloo curry or cabbage curry or whatever curry for lunch or dinner). See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry#Etymology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry#Etymology
    - osrec 8y ago
      Actually, it indeed a specific dish in South India as well (often made from yogurt - https://www.thespruceeats.com/south-indian-yogurt-curry-1957993 https://www.thespruceeats.com/south-indian-yogurt-curry-1957...). Indians saying aloo 'curry' or cabbage 'curry' is more likely due to India's colonial past, rather than it being a general term the Indians coined. It's well known that curry is one of those words that the English/Portuguese borrowed from South India and then generalised to mean 'pretty much any Indian dish'.
- ummonk 8y ago
  Eh? Maybe this is different in Britain, but here in the US, "curry" is simply a general word for the category of foods that are both spicy and liquidy, and tend to be eaten with rice or bread (in contrast to soups). It's obviously a given that there are an infinite number of sauces and flavors in curries, both in and outside India...
- vram22 8y ago
  It's not the use of the term "curry" per se, but the misknowledge of it ... See what I did there? :)
- mrob 8y ago
  Curry powder is used for British dishes such as coronation chicken. It's only "dreadful" if you mistakenly believe it's supposed to be used for Indian cuisine.
ArtWomb 8y ago
At the risk of giving away some closely held secrets here. An absolute pro-tip: use a Pressure Cooker when making meat based curries. In 20 minutes, you can have a dish that tastes as if it were slow roasted all day long. Can only speculate as to the science involved. But for goat and lamb that desired result of a tender, rope-y texture is readily achievable by even though most inexperienced cooks. Consult YouTube for technique. It even works great with that Japanese-style "Golden Curry" base you can find in the international foods section of your local grocery for $2.99 ;)
- pen2l 8y ago
  Can you recommend some good youtube channels or specific resources for Indian/Pakistani cooking? Chef John/Seriouseats et al. I feel are not so great when it comes to this cuisine, unfortunately I cannot find anything better. Grateful for any tips on getting a good CTM!
  - karanbhangui 8y ago
    My favorite is VahChef: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_R8qIXaTKpkAJuuiZhHTmA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_R8qIXaTKpkAJuuiZhHTmA Sanjeev Kapoor has been a famous Indian celebrity chef for a long time: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmoX4QULJ9MB00xW4coMiOw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmoX4QULJ9MB00xW4coMiOw And then there are several village-style cooking channels that are just fun to watch: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1of9ELYwB623fWaAMRDVFA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1of9ELYwB623fWaAMRDVFA https://www.youtube.com/user/CrazyIndianFood https://www.youtube.com/user/CrazyIndianFood
    - HarryHirsch 8y ago
      Manjula: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb75CvYbm5BXpbEkGqFKABw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb75CvYbm5BXpbEkGqFKABw She's been around for at least a decade and is reliable.
- riazrizvi 8y ago
  It sure is the preferred way in Brum it seems. Though now I mainly cook my chicken/fish/beef by flash broiling and removing from the heat at the point when the meat is just cooked through. Super juicy, and quick because the sauce/onions can be simmered to golden brown in less than ten minutes, simultaneously.
UK-Al05 8y ago
For any non English people who might be a bit confused, Birmingham is known for being Indian and balti (balti triangle) capital of the UK.
JdeBP 8y ago
Ladywood Road and Steelhouse Lane are relatively fairly close together. The nearest Coleshill Street that I could find, though, is over in Sutton Coldfield.

33 points by okket 8y ago

The use of the term "curry" drives me nuts. It's just an all encompassing word for Indian food, culminating in that dreadful "curry powder" spice blend the Brits came up with. Spend some actual time in India, and you'll see there is an infinite number of sauces and flavors.

j45 8y ago
Co signed. No such thing as curry. It is a popular term in England though and one of the few ways communal bread was broken in an otherwise extremely immigrant unfriendly UK in the 70's and 80s. (see Southhall riots). Currying food may be a style but not in any way indicative of a particular dish. Curry might be one of originally appropriated/invented terms not too unlike Yoga and Chai.
- JoeSmithson 8y ago
  Yes, "curry" is a British meal invented by British people (British-Asian) in Britain. I read a funny article a few years ago about British Indian people going to India for the first time to visit relatives and really looking forward to the amazing currys they would be able to get out there (surely better than the knockoffs we get here??). They were very disappointed to discover what British people call "an Indian" is nothing like the food Indian people eat.
  - j45 8y ago
    There is also a curry plant that is unrelated to all of this. In the UK when we hear Balti, it literally means bucket.
    - robotresearcher 8y ago
      I love that there is a nice short word for a bucket of curry.
  - ummonk 8y ago
    It's also interesting to consider that many of the standard ingredients in Indian dishes (chili peppers, potatoes, and tomatoes) are not indigenous and were only introduced from the New World by Portuguese traders within the past 500 years.
  - ggg9990 8y ago
    That's like when I had Chinese food in China. Nothing like Chinese food in America. I'm sure if I had never had either the real stuff would have been better, but I was hoping for a better version of the comfort food I remember from my childhood.
    - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
      That’s funny because sichuanese food in Beijing is nothing like sichuanese food in Sichuan. Try even ordering Kung Pao chicken in chengdu... American or European (or Indian or Thai) style Chinese food is just another regional variant, of which there are many in China.
mc32 8y ago
Curry in Japan and curry in Thailand and curry in Vietnam have quite predictable meanings.
- overcast 8y ago
  Yeh sure, a dish of vegetables, and or meat that comes with a sauce. There a million different types of sauces. Curry just isn't a thing you ask for, and get the same thing every time.
alkonaut 8y ago
To me the term Curry just means “spice mix” in some form (paste, dry) or in the context of cooked food, a sauce based on such a mix. It’s important to remember that when people talk about ”Indian food” in the western world, we usually mean the British adopted version, not the authentic stuff. Similar to how many use the term ”mexican food” when they talk about the food more properly named “Tex-Mex” Perhaps there should be a Tex-Mex type term for UK-style Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi dishes that isn’t just “Curries” or “Indian”.
- wavefunction 8y ago
  >”Indian food” in the western world, we usually mean the British adopted version That seems to be the contention of Brits, at least, though it's a claim fraught with much contention. Many of the early Indian immigrants to the US were Punjabi and so it is the dishes or variations of Punjabi cuisine that are considered icons of "Indian food" in the US. With subsequent waves of immigration from Kerala and other regions of India and growing pressure to differentiate many more regionally-focused places have sprung up in the US, at least for the general public. A Chettinad restaurant recently opened near me, though I've yet to try it.
- ben_w 8y ago
  > Perhaps there should be a Tex-Mex type term for UK-style Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi dishes that isn’t just “Curries” or “Indian”. Given the history, the obvious name may also be… contentious: “Empire food”
kerrsclyde 8y ago
The best show I've seen which educates us Brits on authentic Indian food is Rick Stein's India BBC series, the book has some wonderful recipes in too - perhaps not authentic UK takeaway though.
Angostura 8y ago
Good news! we don't just use 'curry' for indian foods, we'll use it for any most hot aromatic food that comes to the East of us. Thai, Indonesian etc etc.
okket 8y ago
Can we agree on that "curry" dishes are effing tasty?
- vram22 8y ago
  Agreement not required. It's like a law of nature.
osrec 8y ago
While it doesn't drive me nuts, I see where you're coming from. It's actually taken from the Indian word 'kadhi', where the 'dh' sounds a bit like an 'r' if you roll the 'd'. Western settlers were unable to pronounce the 'dh' correctly, so they ended up calling it curry. Also, kadhi is a very specific dish in North and South India, but outside of India, it's become the general term for anything with a spicy sauce.
- vram22 8y ago
  >While it doesn't drive me nuts, I see where you're coming from. It's actually taken from the Indian word 'kadhi' AFAIK, kadhi is the Marathi and Hindi word for a specific dish, made mainly of heated buttermilk with spices in it, eaten with rice and other things, or had as a drink. So what you say seems unlikely to be the origin of the bigger umbrella term curry as used in English in the West (and also some in India, where we informally say we had aloo curry or cabbage curry or whatever curry for lunch or dinner). See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry#Etymology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry#Etymology
  - osrec 8y ago
    Actually, it indeed a specific dish in South India as well (often made from yogurt - https://www.thespruceeats.com/south-indian-yogurt-curry-1957993 https://www.thespruceeats.com/south-indian-yogurt-curry-1957...). Indians saying aloo 'curry' or cabbage 'curry' is more likely due to India's colonial past, rather than it being a general term the Indians coined. It's well known that curry is one of those words that the English/Portuguese borrowed from South India and then generalised to mean 'pretty much any Indian dish'.
ummonk 8y ago
Eh? Maybe this is different in Britain, but here in the US, "curry" is simply a general word for the category of foods that are both spicy and liquidy, and tend to be eaten with rice or bread (in contrast to soups). It's obviously a given that there are an infinite number of sauces and flavors in curries, both in and outside India...
vram22 8y ago
It's not the use of the term "curry" per se, but the misknowledge of it ... See what I did there? :)
mrob 8y ago
Curry powder is used for British dishes such as coronation chicken. It's only "dreadful" if you mistakenly believe it's supposed to be used for Indian cuisine.

ArtWomb 8y ago

At the risk of giving away some closely held secrets here. An absolute pro-tip: use a Pressure Cooker when making meat based curries. In 20 minutes, you can have a dish that tastes as if it were slow roasted all day long. Can only speculate as to the science involved. But for goat and lamb that desired result of a tender, rope-y texture is readily achievable by even though most inexperienced cooks. Consult YouTube for technique. It even works great with that Japanese-style "Golden Curry" base you can find in the international foods section of your local grocery for $2.99 ;)

pen2l 8y ago
Can you recommend some good youtube channels or specific resources for Indian/Pakistani cooking? Chef John/Seriouseats et al. I feel are not so great when it comes to this cuisine, unfortunately I cannot find anything better. Grateful for any tips on getting a good CTM!
- karanbhangui 8y ago
  My favorite is VahChef: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_R8qIXaTKpkAJuuiZhHTmA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_R8qIXaTKpkAJuuiZhHTmA Sanjeev Kapoor has been a famous Indian celebrity chef for a long time: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmoX4QULJ9MB00xW4coMiOw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmoX4QULJ9MB00xW4coMiOw And then there are several village-style cooking channels that are just fun to watch: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1of9ELYwB623fWaAMRDVFA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1of9ELYwB623fWaAMRDVFA https://www.youtube.com/user/CrazyIndianFood https://www.youtube.com/user/CrazyIndianFood
  - HarryHirsch 8y ago
    Manjula: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb75CvYbm5BXpbEkGqFKABw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb75CvYbm5BXpbEkGqFKABw She's been around for at least a decade and is reliable.
riazrizvi 8y ago
It sure is the preferred way in Brum it seems. Though now I mainly cook my chicken/fish/beef by flash broiling and removing from the heat at the point when the meat is just cooked through. Super juicy, and quick because the sauce/onions can be simmered to golden brown in less than ten minutes, simultaneously.

UK-Al05 8y ago

For any non English people who might be a bit confused, Birmingham is known for being Indian and balti (balti triangle) capital of the UK.

JdeBP 8y ago

Ladywood Road and Steelhouse Lane are relatively fairly close together. The nearest Coleshill Street that I could find, though, is over in Sutton Coldfield.