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The problem with this is that Fast.com is owned by Netflix, which is such a significant consumer of bandwidth that it inclines ISPs to shape traffic to fudge th

The problem with this is that Fast.com is owned by Netflix, which is such a significant consumer of bandwidth that it inclines ISPs to shape traffic to fudge the numbers. Essentially, this kind of speed test only really tells you what the maximum bandwidth your ISP is able to provide you is, rather than what they're really providing. Even then, the test result with Fast.com could be subject to traffic shaping or slowdown at the remote end, so what is the result really telling you at all? In fairness, this would be true of any popular speed test, and I'm not sure of an obvious solution. Any kind of tunneling or onion routing would render the test pointless anyway, so I'm not sure of the extent to which you can ever really trust a speed test of this nature. The only really useful data for this kind of analysis is likely to come from a router with sufficiently sophisticated software that it can report on transfer rates over time (which many do), and even then, that doesn't account for scenarios where the remote connection is the bottleneck.

nothrabannosir 8y ago
That’s a feature, not a bug. It was originally created in the context of the net neutrality debate. This allows you to see if your ISP is cheating you on Netflix bandwidth, supposedly in order to push their own media-on-demand product. It was introduced after reports of ISPs doing just that, and it was Netflix’ way of hitting back.
- headmelted 8y ago
  Is Netflix sending the video data from Fast.com, though? If not then they could very well be fudging the numbers for Fast.com and not Netflix proper. It may not be common or even legal in the US (I really don't know), but in the UK traffic shaping is commonplace, even in instances where the package has been described as "Unlimited".
  - nothrabannosir 8y ago
    Yes, open the debug console and see for yourself ;) ...ntflxvideo.net ...ntflxvideo.net ...ntflxvideo.net ...ntflxvideo.net etc.
  - chinathrow 8y ago
    It's the opposit: they use video data as test data for fast.com, served from CDNs or open cache or whatever is closest.
  - xaldir 8y ago
    I think they are doing clever stuff to mimic real netflix traffic. You can see various request to *.nflxvideo.net
- Aissen 8y ago
  Indeed, and it's a wonderful, useful feature. So useful to consumers, that a french ISP (Free) wasn't very happy with it and sued Netflix for it in june 2017. I have no idea if this lawsuit is still ongoing, because Free seemed to have had a first peering with Netflix in April, and has been going up in the chart: https://ispspeedindex.netflix.com/country/france/ https://ispspeedindex.netflix.com/country/france/
  - rjvbk 8y ago
    Netflix uses fast.com and their speed index as a way to extort ISPs into giving them traffic for free. They refuse to pay any fees to connect directly to ISPs and then they use that website to imply they are being throttled when the meager free routes they use get saturated, which is their own fault.
    - dswalter 8y ago
      I know net neutrality is no longer law, but I think if you interviewed a thousand people on this site, you might be the only one miffed that Netflix isn't paying ISPs for faster routes. Put another way, it is my impression that consumers are already paying for bandwith. Getting Netflix to pay for faster routes would mean ISPs are double-dipping.
      - rjvbk 8y ago
        ISPs are neutral here, the problem is, once again, that Netflix uses a HUGE amount of traffic, and the normal routes (the ones everybody gets) get saturated. If they want "premium" routes for their MASSIVE traffic, they will have to pay to the ISPs. I think that's reasonable. Giving them premium routes for free would not be neutral, would it? ;)
        reitanqild 8y ago
        Netflix pay for their own uplinks. That is fair. They shouldn't pay for our downlinks, that we've already paid for. That would be double dipping or something by our isps.
reissbaker 8y ago
ISPs aren't generally inclined to shape traffic to increase bandwidth for Netflix, though. Often they throttle it, so it's a good test to see if you'll get good performance doing something you likely care about bandwidth for (streaming Netflix).
- headmelted 8y ago
  I'd mentioned this in another comment, but I'm not sure that shaping traffic (or not) for the speed-test would mean they're treating streams the same way, especially if it's a different TLD.
  - foota 8y ago
    I think based on the urls being requested on the site that they hit their production serving services, so it shouldn't be possible for an ISP to treat it differently (at least not without some highly advanced techniques)
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
dragonwriter 8y ago
> Essentially, this kind of speed test , rather than what they're really providing. I get half the download bandwidth on Fast.com that I get using th FCC Speed Test app, so I don't think the former “only really tells you what the maximum bandwidth your ISP is able to provide you is”.
- headmelted 8y ago
  Fair point, which I only realized after I'd submitted the comment. I've updated the parent to reflect this!
sml156 8y ago
I can't remember where I read this but some ISP's give preferential treatment to url's with the word " /speedtest " in it rendering the test meaningless
- saagarjha 8y ago
  "https://fast.com" https://fast.com" doesn't contain "/speedtest"?
- gruez 8y ago
  that's impossible because fast is served via https
  - gxs 8y ago
    Correct me if I am wrong, but you can still see the URL you navigate to when using https, is that not correct? Once the connection is established you can't see the traffic between you and the URL. Is my understanding correct?
    - tecleandor 8y ago
      Through SNI you get to see the domain name [0] (until encrypted SNI is working[1]), but not the rest of the url. [0] - https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/86723/why-do-https-requests-include-the-host-name-in-clear-text https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/86723/why-do-ht... [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17538390 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17538390
    - tomschlick 8y ago
      Due to SNI, the domain name is sent in cleartext but nothing else. So yes they could key off of "fast.com" but other sites where "/speedtest" is included would be encrypted.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
taf2 8y ago
Wouldn’t an obvious initial answer to this problem be open source and self hosting. That would for variation of the host name making it harder for ISPs to target this test for either positive or negative reporting. I’m assuming the test downloads and uploads a specific resource...
pnutjam 8y ago
If you really want to check bandwidth between two devices, LAN or WAN, you should use iperf. https://iperf.fr/ https://iperf.fr/

nothrabannosir 8y ago

That’s a feature, not a bug. It was originally created in the context of the net neutrality debate. This allows you to see if your ISP is cheating you on Netflix bandwidth, supposedly in order to push their own media-on-demand product. It was introduced after reports of ISPs doing just that, and it was Netflix’ way of hitting back.

headmelted 8y ago
Is Netflix sending the video data from Fast.com, though? If not then they could very well be fudging the numbers for Fast.com and not Netflix proper. It may not be common or even legal in the US (I really don't know), but in the UK traffic shaping is commonplace, even in instances where the package has been described as "Unlimited".
- nothrabannosir 8y ago
  Yes, open the debug console and see for yourself ;) ...ntflxvideo.net ...ntflxvideo.net ...ntflxvideo.net ...ntflxvideo.net etc.
- chinathrow 8y ago
  It's the opposit: they use video data as test data for fast.com, served from CDNs or open cache or whatever is closest.
- xaldir 8y ago
  I think they are doing clever stuff to mimic real netflix traffic. You can see various request to *.nflxvideo.net
Aissen 8y ago
Indeed, and it's a wonderful, useful feature. So useful to consumers, that a french ISP (Free) wasn't very happy with it and sued Netflix for it in june 2017. I have no idea if this lawsuit is still ongoing, because Free seemed to have had a first peering with Netflix in April, and has been going up in the chart: https://ispspeedindex.netflix.com/country/france/ https://ispspeedindex.netflix.com/country/france/
- rjvbk 8y ago
  Netflix uses fast.com and their speed index as a way to extort ISPs into giving them traffic for free. They refuse to pay any fees to connect directly to ISPs and then they use that website to imply they are being throttled when the meager free routes they use get saturated, which is their own fault.
  - dswalter 8y ago
    I know net neutrality is no longer law, but I think if you interviewed a thousand people on this site, you might be the only one miffed that Netflix isn't paying ISPs for faster routes. Put another way, it is my impression that consumers are already paying for bandwith. Getting Netflix to pay for faster routes would mean ISPs are double-dipping.
    - rjvbk 8y ago
      ISPs are neutral here, the problem is, once again, that Netflix uses a HUGE amount of traffic, and the normal routes (the ones everybody gets) get saturated. If they want "premium" routes for their MASSIVE traffic, they will have to pay to the ISPs. I think that's reasonable. Giving them premium routes for free would not be neutral, would it? ;)
      - reitanqild 8y ago
        Netflix pay for their own uplinks. That is fair. They shouldn't pay for our downlinks, that we've already paid for. That would be double dipping or something by our isps.

reissbaker 8y ago

ISPs aren't generally inclined to shape traffic to increase bandwidth for Netflix, though. Often they throttle it, so it's a good test to see if you'll get good performance doing something you likely care about bandwidth for (streaming Netflix).

headmelted 8y ago
I'd mentioned this in another comment, but I'm not sure that shaping traffic (or not) for the speed-test would mean they're treating streams the same way, especially if it's a different TLD.
- foota 8y ago
  I think based on the urls being requested on the site that they hit their production serving services, so it shouldn't be possible for an ISP to treat it differently (at least not without some highly advanced techniques)

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

dragonwriter 8y ago

> Essentially, this kind of speed test , rather than what they're really providing. I get half the download bandwidth on Fast.com that I get using th FCC Speed Test app, so I don't think the former “only really tells you what the maximum bandwidth your ISP is able to provide you is”.

headmelted 8y ago
Fair point, which I only realized after I'd submitted the comment. I've updated the parent to reflect this!

sml156 8y ago

I can't remember where I read this but some ISP's give preferential treatment to url's with the word " /speedtest " in it rendering the test meaningless

saagarjha 8y ago
"https://fast.com" https://fast.com" doesn't contain "/speedtest"?
gruez 8y ago
that's impossible because fast is served via https
- gxs 8y ago
  Correct me if I am wrong, but you can still see the URL you navigate to when using https, is that not correct? Once the connection is established you can't see the traffic between you and the URL. Is my understanding correct?
  - tecleandor 8y ago
    Through SNI you get to see the domain name [0] (until encrypted SNI is working[1]), but not the rest of the url. [0] - https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/86723/why-do-https-requests-include-the-host-name-in-clear-text https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/86723/why-do-ht... [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17538390 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17538390
  - tomschlick 8y ago
    Due to SNI, the domain name is sent in cleartext but nothing else. So yes they could key off of "fast.com" but other sites where "/speedtest" is included would be encrypted.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

taf2 8y ago

Wouldn’t an obvious initial answer to this problem be open source and self hosting. That would for variation of the host name making it harder for ISPs to target this test for either positive or negative reporting. I’m assuming the test downloads and uploads a specific resource...

pnutjam 8y ago

If you really want to check bandwidth between two devices, LAN or WAN, you should use iperf. https://iperf.fr/ https://iperf.fr/