5 ms·

Genuinely curious: I don't work in the space of CAD, video editing or any other field that people tend to use to justify the MacBook Pro's ludicrous pricetag th

Genuinely curious: I don't work in the space of CAD, video editing or any other field that people tend to use to justify the MacBook Pro's ludicrous pricetag that has some shiny numbers on the tech specs sheet. Do these really do anything a sufficiently equipped laptop from anyone else can't? Plenty of options with latest gen Intel and Nvidia 10xx series are out there for less insane prices. Granted, I don't see many with that much storage space and RAM but I'd love to hear how some of you have experienced the same workload on non-Apple devices and felt you should keep buying MacBook.

abakker 8y ago
OSX really. Loss of productivity from the little stuff in windows just isn’t manageable for me. OS X has problems, but I’m used to it and familiar with it and it works as expected.
- garren 8y ago
  I agree with the loss of productivity in Windows. For me it started with Win7, really took hold with Win8/server 2012 "metro", and only got a little better in Win10. I don't understand why there are two significantly different ways to do simple things like connect to a network or configure an existing connection. The OS throws the pretty/flat metro inspired applet at you, but it has 10% of the actual functionality you're looking for, so you end up popping open the control panel anyway. The start menu ads are an insane addition. The apps in the app store are pretty much pointless and anything you actually need you can install via chocolatey. If MS were to produce an actual "pro" version of Windows that removed all of the fluffy inconsistent stuff, ripped out all vestiges of Win8, and put PowerShell front and center, it would appeal to a lot of people that just want to get stuff done.
RussianCow 8y ago
> justify the MacBook Pro's ludicrous pricetag that has some shiny numbers on the tech specs sheet If you think people buy MacBook Pros because of their tech specs, you are missing the point. MacBooks are by far the best general purpose, well-rounded laptops on the market from a build quality perspective. Everything from the screen to the touchpad to sleep/hibernate (and, until recently, the keyboard) is finely tuned to the point that you can't find another laptop on the market that just feels anywhere as nice as a whole. The tight integration between the hardware and the software doesn't hurt, either. If all you need is a powerful laptop, or if you don't care about any of those details, you are probably better off getting a more cost effective machine, but you will always sacrifice some combination of things for it. (For me personally, the biggest one is the touchpad.) I say this as someone who doesn't own any other Apple products, but I will likely never buy a laptop other than a MacBook Pro.
- untog 8y ago
  Seconding the touchpad. If I'm spending eight or so hours a day using a computer you can bet I'm going to get the one that feels best. CPU performance matters, but I'm not running at 100% CPU all day. I am clicking and typing all day, though.
- corey_moncure 8y ago
  Have you taken the Surface Book 2 for a spin? Pricey, but gives the MBP a good run for its money, and does a couple tricks the MBP cannot, such as having an excellent touch/pen surface for a screen. Real ports, including SD card. The outstanding downside is, of course, the abominable Windows 10.
  - RussianCow 8y ago
    I have, and to give Microsoft credit, it's the closest thing to a MBP I've ever used. That said, it still doesn't just quite feel as polished (the touchpad isn't as accurate, for one). But if I had to use a non-Apple laptop, I would probably go for a Surface Book.
  - garren 8y ago
    How often do you rely on the touch screen? I know it seems like a naive question, but I have an older surface pro and I rarely used the touch screen. The machine itself was bulkier than an iPad or Nexus9, so I tended to use those instead for tooling around and mindless consumption. The surface pro was pretty much useless for actual work unless I had a second monitor, actual keyboard, and trackpad. I do native Windows dev for a living, but I have no urge to pick up a machine with a touch screen unless it's a tablet. Is a touch pen/surface actually useful in day to day work?
    - abhorrence 8y ago
      The surface pro seemed designed to be a tablet that could also be your computer. The surface book is a laptop that can also be a tablet. This difference is really important for interaction. That said I feel like the digitizer is only really useful for taking notes that contain diagrams, or things like digital art. I also barely use my surface book, despite thinking it's one of the best alternatives to my beloved 2015 15" MBP.
nickthemagicman 8y ago
Yep Its just a million little details that make it such quality. The awesome UI of the OS. The trackpad is the best trackpad I've ever used. Every other trackpad feels clumsy after using one. The fact that it's a TRUE linux machine not just retrofitted Windows linux. The fact that everything just works. The chance of getting a virus is incredibly small. The time saved in troubleshooting is worth the price. Operating system upgrades are like 30 bucks vs the 1-200 dollars of every new windows release. Also, the build quality is the best. I have a macbook that has lasted 10 years and still works great. Never had a windows machine do that. So the quality, UI, attention to detail, upgrades, and more make it more than worth the upfront price tag in hassle saved down the line.
- RussianCow 8y ago
  > Operating system upgrades are like 30 bucks vs the 1-200 dollars of every new windows release. When was the last time you upgraded macOS? It's been free for several years. :) Also, to be fair to Microsoft, Windows 10 is supposed to be the last version of Windows, so you should only have to buy it once and never upgrade again.
- sehugg 8y ago
  The fact that it's a TRUE linux machine To be pedantic, a GNU/Darwin/Mach/BSD machine.
  - nickthemagicman 8y ago
    Yessir. A flavor of Linux but Linux nonetheless.
    - parasubvert 8y ago
      A flavour of UNIX. BSD (and OS X) evolved mostly separately from GNU or Linux, with some limited cross-over. Even basic CLI tools have subtle differences. The only Linus Torvalds code in a Mac would be git.
      - 8y ago
sneak 8y ago
OSX, as sibling pointed out, but let me be much more specific: - iMessage - excellent integration between Contacts, Maps, iMessage, Mail, and Spotlight - Mail.app, the best desktop mail client (IMO) - Siri > Cortana > Whatever tarball you are expected to run autoconf inside of to get your linux box to act like a mac from the 90s - excellent HiDPI support (neither Windows nor Linux have figured this out yet) - plug and play external display support - configuration-free lid switch sanity - configuration-free trackpad sanity - Lack of vendor adware (Windows obvs, did Ubuntu ever remove those Amazon search things?) - painless FDE (extremely important) - good fonts - iOS development possible - the most common modifier key is where my thumb can reach it and is not overloaded with the unix modifier key (is ctrl-c copy or SIGINT?) - copy and paste work between apps using consistent keystrokes (windows figured this one out, linux not so much) - less malware than windows - an order of magnitude better a11y than anyone else in the history of OSes (it’s literally not even a race anymore, Apple is so far ahead here) Finally, in not-OSX: - build quality, even with keyboard and thermal issues, is still simply a head and shoulders higher than everyone else The only people who could reasonably challenge Apple’s level of fit and finish from an OS perspective are Google, which is why I carry an rMBP and the 16gb Pixelbook. ChromeOS these days is a fucking marvel, up there on quality par with google search before answer cards, google assistant, and google maps. It’s a major achievement and is the first actually workable/usable Linux desktop.
- aplummer 8y ago
  Genuinely can someone explain why this is downvoted? The answer says “the software” which people constantly discount - just look at the cycle predicting Nintendo’s death every few years.
double0jimb0 8y ago
In general, unless you are running a long computation (in CAD, that could be a stress analysis; in graphic design that could be rendering a frame) you won’t notice any difference in snappiness of workflow. I run Autodesk Inventor 2018 on a bootcamped mid-2017 Mackbook 12”, it has a built in Intel video card (650 I believe). The only time I wish I had more processing power is when doing huge FEA analysis, my 15W processor goes into a down-clocked limp mode, and computations take 4X longer than on a latest gen desktop).
prawn 8y ago
I do some Photoshop and Lightroom work, but generally don't need an overly powerful laptop. I used to detest OS9 or whatever Apple had before OSX and stuck with Windows for some time. But after switching and when I last upgraded, price was no issue. There might've been a powerful, $500 Windows laptop, and I would ignore it. The MacBook Pro has simple, clean lines. It works well. The OS stays out of my way (I shrink and hide the Dock and don't use many of the other features - Expose, etc - can't even remember what they're called). I can't trust that to be the same for Windows-based laptops or other hardware. If it costs $3-5k and I use it for hours and hours each day, years on end, it's peanuts as a professional tool. I'd rather pay and enjoy using it than take a discount but be frustrated each day.
ridgeguy 8y ago
Comsol and sometime CAD user here, on a 2015 MacBook Pro, the latest of many Apple laptops for me. My workflow runs faster on many laptops outside the walled garden. But I've gotten used to an exceptional build quality that's reliable under hard use, and OSX lets me think & work more like I want than other OSes. Also, my customer experience with Apple has been outstanding for decades. For me, Apple has a mix of quality and aesthetics that I like better than what I've experienced from other manufacturers. It's been worth the price premium for me. That said, I'm avoiding the butterfly keyboards until they really get them figured out.
sumedh 8y ago
> Do these really do anything a sufficiently equipped laptop from anyone else can't? Yes, mac touchpads are light years ahead of non mac touchpads.

abakker 8y ago

OSX really. Loss of productivity from the little stuff in windows just isn’t manageable for me. OS X has problems, but I’m used to it and familiar with it and it works as expected.

garren 8y ago
I agree with the loss of productivity in Windows. For me it started with Win7, really took hold with Win8/server 2012 "metro", and only got a little better in Win10. I don't understand why there are two significantly different ways to do simple things like connect to a network or configure an existing connection. The OS throws the pretty/flat metro inspired applet at you, but it has 10% of the actual functionality you're looking for, so you end up popping open the control panel anyway. The start menu ads are an insane addition. The apps in the app store are pretty much pointless and anything you actually need you can install via chocolatey. If MS were to produce an actual "pro" version of Windows that removed all of the fluffy inconsistent stuff, ripped out all vestiges of Win8, and put PowerShell front and center, it would appeal to a lot of people that just want to get stuff done.

RussianCow 8y ago

> justify the MacBook Pro's ludicrous pricetag that has some shiny numbers on the tech specs sheet If you think people buy MacBook Pros because of their tech specs, you are missing the point. MacBooks are by far the best general purpose, well-rounded laptops on the market from a build quality perspective. Everything from the screen to the touchpad to sleep/hibernate (and, until recently, the keyboard) is finely tuned to the point that you can't find another laptop on the market that just feels anywhere as nice as a whole. The tight integration between the hardware and the software doesn't hurt, either. If all you need is a powerful laptop, or if you don't care about any of those details, you are probably better off getting a more cost effective machine, but you will always sacrifice some combination of things for it. (For me personally, the biggest one is the touchpad.) I say this as someone who doesn't own any other Apple products, but I will likely never buy a laptop other than a MacBook Pro.

untog 8y ago
Seconding the touchpad. If I'm spending eight or so hours a day using a computer you can bet I'm going to get the one that feels best. CPU performance matters, but I'm not running at 100% CPU all day. I am clicking and typing all day, though.
corey_moncure 8y ago
Have you taken the Surface Book 2 for a spin? Pricey, but gives the MBP a good run for its money, and does a couple tricks the MBP cannot, such as having an excellent touch/pen surface for a screen. Real ports, including SD card. The outstanding downside is, of course, the abominable Windows 10.
- RussianCow 8y ago
  I have, and to give Microsoft credit, it's the closest thing to a MBP I've ever used. That said, it still doesn't just quite feel as polished (the touchpad isn't as accurate, for one). But if I had to use a non-Apple laptop, I would probably go for a Surface Book.
- garren 8y ago
  How often do you rely on the touch screen? I know it seems like a naive question, but I have an older surface pro and I rarely used the touch screen. The machine itself was bulkier than an iPad or Nexus9, so I tended to use those instead for tooling around and mindless consumption. The surface pro was pretty much useless for actual work unless I had a second monitor, actual keyboard, and trackpad. I do native Windows dev for a living, but I have no urge to pick up a machine with a touch screen unless it's a tablet. Is a touch pen/surface actually useful in day to day work?
  - abhorrence 8y ago
    The surface pro seemed designed to be a tablet that could also be your computer. The surface book is a laptop that can also be a tablet. This difference is really important for interaction. That said I feel like the digitizer is only really useful for taking notes that contain diagrams, or things like digital art. I also barely use my surface book, despite thinking it's one of the best alternatives to my beloved 2015 15" MBP.

nickthemagicman 8y ago

Yep Its just a million little details that make it such quality. The awesome UI of the OS. The trackpad is the best trackpad I've ever used. Every other trackpad feels clumsy after using one. The fact that it's a TRUE linux machine not just retrofitted Windows linux. The fact that everything just works. The chance of getting a virus is incredibly small. The time saved in troubleshooting is worth the price. Operating system upgrades are like 30 bucks vs the 1-200 dollars of every new windows release. Also, the build quality is the best. I have a macbook that has lasted 10 years and still works great. Never had a windows machine do that. So the quality, UI, attention to detail, upgrades, and more make it more than worth the upfront price tag in hassle saved down the line.

RussianCow 8y ago
> Operating system upgrades are like 30 bucks vs the 1-200 dollars of every new windows release. When was the last time you upgraded macOS? It's been free for several years. :) Also, to be fair to Microsoft, Windows 10 is supposed to be the last version of Windows, so you should only have to buy it once and never upgrade again.
sehugg 8y ago
The fact that it's a TRUE linux machine To be pedantic, a GNU/Darwin/Mach/BSD machine.
- nickthemagicman 8y ago
  Yessir. A flavor of Linux but Linux nonetheless.
  - parasubvert 8y ago
    A flavour of UNIX. BSD (and OS X) evolved mostly separately from GNU or Linux, with some limited cross-over. Even basic CLI tools have subtle differences. The only Linus Torvalds code in a Mac would be git.
    - 8y ago

sneak 8y ago

OSX, as sibling pointed out, but let me be much more specific: - iMessage - excellent integration between Contacts, Maps, iMessage, Mail, and Spotlight - Mail.app, the best desktop mail client (IMO) - Siri > Cortana > Whatever tarball you are expected to run autoconf inside of to get your linux box to act like a mac from the 90s - excellent HiDPI support (neither Windows nor Linux have figured this out yet) - plug and play external display support - configuration-free lid switch sanity - configuration-free trackpad sanity - Lack of vendor adware (Windows obvs, did Ubuntu ever remove those Amazon search things?) - painless FDE (extremely important) - good fonts - iOS development possible - the most common modifier key is where my thumb can reach it and is not overloaded with the unix modifier key (is ctrl-c copy or SIGINT?) - copy and paste work between apps using consistent keystrokes (windows figured this one out, linux not so much) - less malware than windows - an order of magnitude better a11y than anyone else in the history of OSes (it’s literally not even a race anymore, Apple is so far ahead here) Finally, in not-OSX: - build quality, even with keyboard and thermal issues, is still simply a head and shoulders higher than everyone else The only people who could reasonably challenge Apple’s level of fit and finish from an OS perspective are Google, which is why I carry an rMBP and the 16gb Pixelbook. ChromeOS these days is a fucking marvel, up there on quality par with google search before answer cards, google assistant, and google maps. It’s a major achievement and is the first actually workable/usable Linux desktop.

aplummer 8y ago
Genuinely can someone explain why this is downvoted? The answer says “the software” which people constantly discount - just look at the cycle predicting Nintendo’s death every few years.

double0jimb0 8y ago

In general, unless you are running a long computation (in CAD, that could be a stress analysis; in graphic design that could be rendering a frame) you won’t notice any difference in snappiness of workflow. I run Autodesk Inventor 2018 on a bootcamped mid-2017 Mackbook 12”, it has a built in Intel video card (650 I believe). The only time I wish I had more processing power is when doing huge FEA analysis, my 15W processor goes into a down-clocked limp mode, and computations take 4X longer than on a latest gen desktop).

prawn 8y ago

I do some Photoshop and Lightroom work, but generally don't need an overly powerful laptop. I used to detest OS9 or whatever Apple had before OSX and stuck with Windows for some time. But after switching and when I last upgraded, price was no issue. There might've been a powerful, $500 Windows laptop, and I would ignore it. The MacBook Pro has simple, clean lines. It works well. The OS stays out of my way (I shrink and hide the Dock and don't use many of the other features - Expose, etc - can't even remember what they're called). I can't trust that to be the same for Windows-based laptops or other hardware. If it costs $3-5k and I use it for hours and hours each day, years on end, it's peanuts as a professional tool. I'd rather pay and enjoy using it than take a discount but be frustrated each day.

ridgeguy 8y ago

Comsol and sometime CAD user here, on a 2015 MacBook Pro, the latest of many Apple laptops for me. My workflow runs faster on many laptops outside the walled garden. But I've gotten used to an exceptional build quality that's reliable under hard use, and OSX lets me think & work more like I want than other OSes. Also, my customer experience with Apple has been outstanding for decades. For me, Apple has a mix of quality and aesthetics that I like better than what I've experienced from other manufacturers. It's been worth the price premium for me. That said, I'm avoiding the butterfly keyboards until they really get them figured out.

sumedh 8y ago

> Do these really do anything a sufficiently equipped laptop from anyone else can't? Yes, mac touchpads are light years ahead of non mac touchpads.