8 ms·

Java as we know it is over. Time to fork?

83 points by auxbuss 16y ago

wccrawford 16y ago
I've noticed a trend. When people sit around and talk about forking a project, it doesn't happen. When someone forks a project, there's a chance it'll take off. You can't convince someone else to fork something. If they had the drive to fork it, they wouldn't need convincing in the first place.
- fierarul 16y ago
  Yeah, this is "Armchair forking" -- happens all the time. As you see in this blogpost it starts with the most important thing -- naming the new fork and then goes into some politics and maybe even release schedule. Of course, the second the "Post blog" button has been pressed it's all forgotten as nobody wants to actually spend time working on this.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    http://www.google.com/search?q=%22armchair+forking%22 http://www.google.com/search?q=%22armchair+forking%22 Congratulations on coining a new term!
    - fierarul 16y ago
      Heh, the beauty of English.
- rudasn 16y ago
  I was watching a video on TED the other day about this phenomenon. If you talk about your goals your brain releases the chemicals that are needed to make you feel that you have actually done something. You "feel good" about doing something even if you haven't actually done it. Having already felt good about your self you have little to no motivation to start doing it. In contrast, if you don't talk about your goals then you really try to achieve them because you know at the end you will "feel good".
  - krschultz 16y ago
    That sounds interesting, which TED talk was it?
    - dho 16y ago
      He probably meant this talk: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/derek_sivers_keep_your_goals_to_yourself.html http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/derek_sivers_keep_your_goa...
      - rudasn 16y ago
        yes, that's it
  - Jach 16y ago
    Reminds me of the Taoist phrase "Those who know don't speak, those who speak don't know." We're fascinating self-deluding machines...
- tomjen3 16y ago
  Isn't it generally the case that when people sit down and talk about x, it doesn't happen?
- dkarl 16y ago
  The bar is a lot higher for forking Java. It's not enough for a few guys to establish a track record of consistent high-quality releases. IBM and Red Hat will only give their support to an organization comparable to the one that controls Java now, which requires a lot of coordination and planning, which in turn requires some high-level decisions made inside organizations that have the personnel, money, and interest to make it happen. A single blog post doesn't accomplish much, but this is the kind of pitch that needs to be made in more detail to the right people inside IBM et al.
- InclinedPlane 16y ago
  Isn't this just a special case of "someone oughta do X?" syndrome? If it's not important enough for you personally to make the effort to do it, why do you think anyone else will?
dminor 16y ago
Oracle hasn't canceled JavaFX - they're discontinuing JavaFX script. JavaFX is going to live on through an API (third time's the charm for a Java UI API?).
- seltzered 16y ago
  Still, having a separate markup/scripting language for the UI layout has become an established paradigm for anyone writing apps that need to run in a browser. side note: this action I guess has prompted the creation of "visage" http://steveonjava.com/accouncing-visage/ http://steveonjava.com/accouncing-visage/ as a JavaFX scripting alternative.
- zmmmmm 16y ago
  I'm actually glad to hear that. I really scratched my head over why on earth Sun invented a new language for scripting UIs even while simultaneously funding things like JRuby, or having options like Groovy or Jython they could have simply run with (albeit, with some slimming down). The mind share they would have gotten by tapping into any one of those communities would have blown the lid off JavaFX adoption. Heck, even just use Javascript / Rhino which already ships with the JVM (which would ironically be a fast way to port Flash / ActionScript developers over). But announcing yet another new language to learn that is not used anywhere else in the universe? Meh.
strebler 16y ago
Can't we just get IBM to make J9 free & open? Last I checked, they supported more OSes than Sun did and the VM was pretty speedy too.
- ShabbyDoo 16y ago
  I wonder how encumbered it is with Oracle contractual restrictions? Didn't IBM at one point license Sun code to build its own version of the JVM?
  - whatajoke 16y ago
    Much of high performance modern VMs (not just JVM) are built on Self project and StrongTalk acquisiotion by Sun. I think Oracle would have quite a few key patents due to this. Though the Visual works contribution to VM technology cannot be discounted. And it is owned by IBM. So probably IBM and Oracle will not use these patents against each other.
    - whatajoke 16y ago
      The excellent research done under Jikes project in IBM cannot be forgotten. It to contributed to IBM's patent portofolio. Bad to reply to own comment, but can't edit it anymore.
barnaby 16y ago
I doubt that even the best quality fork can compete with Oracles sales machine, no matter how badly they ruin Java. Even if all the great and passionate Java developers leave to become Python programmers, Java will still be the most common language out there.
- Tyrannosaurs 16y ago
  On top of that Java has the brand. Programmers may not feel positive about it but it's embedded in a lot of large organisations, many of whom will, at the management level, be perfectly happy with the Oracle acquisition. They won't see the need or the appeal to move to something else until there is a strong incentive to do so. Against that sort of entrenchment programmers will struggle to influence things a whole load in a lot of Java's key markets.
  - dkarl 16y ago
    Users have little obligation with respect to the Java trademark. My organization can use the word "Java" internally to remind our execs that we're doing the safe, boring thing, and there's no problem if we actually deploy Lava or Fava or Cava (my pick) to our servers. As long as we don't publicly advertise that our services rely on Java technology (and who does that anymore?) we're free to call anything Java internally. If Oracle targets an "OMG Don't Get Caught Using Fake Low-Quality Java" marketing campaign at our upper management, we'll talk to management ourselves and paint Oracle as losers who lost their grasp on everything but the trademark and no longer offer the premier, industry-standard implementation that we require.
    - nl 16y ago
      Oracle doesn't do marketing like that. Oracle doesn't care what you do, unless you are in their target market: enterprise software. If you are, then no amount of talking to management will trump the potential of their talk with management: "Sorry, you are using an unsupported configuration. Your 500K support contract is now void, you will no longer receive critical updates and your licence will expire at the end of the month. Good luck getting your data out before then. Oh, BTW, if you keep your database running after the licence is expired then we'll sue you" You'll never win taking Oracle on head on like that. OTOH, they are very vulnerable to new applications that just happen to be written in Cava on a JVM-derived virtual machine.
po 16y ago
The only part of this that makes me think that a fork will have to happen is the fact that IBM, HP, Google, RedHat, etc… have got to be more than a little uncomfortable with Oracle in the driver's seat.
rwl 16y ago
Wouldn't a fork be running smack into a patent suit? I confess to not understanding the Java ecosystem at all, but I do know that Oracle just sued Google over their alternative Java implementation...how could a fork avoid this?
- btilly 16y ago
  If you start with existing GPL code from Oracle, then you have an implicit patent license. But your code has to be under the GPL. If you meet the "Technology Compatibility Kit", then you're an official Java and have a license. Unfortunately Sun was not in the habit of giving access to the TCK to people who were doing things they did not like with Java, and there is no reason to believe that Oracle will be more generous. Google's problem was that they didn't want GPLed code (wouldn't work for the vendors who want to customize Android), and Sun wouldn't give them access to the TCK. So anyone can create a GPLed fork, or someone who already has access to the TCK (eg IBM) can fork as long as they maintain complete compatibility with the TCK.
  - lhnn 16y ago
    So implementing the JVM under the GPL is legal and patent free? A group of companies could get behind an independent JVM already in progress, refine it and back it, without Oracle interference?
    - wmf 16y ago
      No, you only get patent protection if you use Oracle's GPL code (OpenJDK). If you write your own (e.g. GCJ, Kaffe) there's less protection.
      - lhnn 16y ago
        So someone could fork OpenJDK indefinitely without merging and be protected? Where is all of this documented? Where is the primary source on patent/licensing dangers of (writing/forking a JVM|creating your own "version" of Java)? I don't like asking a lot of questions, but I don't know where to look.
retroryan 16y ago
Why fork? Just go with Scala! http://www.scala-lang.org/ http://www.scala-lang.org/
- TwoSheds 16y ago
  Scala needs the JVM (well, at least it's main implementation does).
  - rue 16y ago
    And the article title asks someone to fork Java.
    - adambyrtek 16y ago
      We comment on the contents, not just the title of the article.
      - rue 16y ago
        Frankly, "contents" substituting Java for JVM are pretty worthless. Notwithstanding, the article seems to be either confused about what it wants to fork, or it does indeed want to fork Java in addition to the JVM. Either way, not a stellar effort.
        adambyrtek 16y ago
        The article mentioned OpenJDK, which contains JVM, but overall I agree that I wouldn't this call to action particularly inspiring.
- mseebach 16y ago
  Why the downvotes? That's a perfectly reasonable suggestion. Java is attractive because it's mostly sane, and it's backed by The Enterprise in a big way. Sure, if Google, RedHat, HP and IBM gets behind a fork, it could work - but I can't really see what RH and HP has to gain there. They both need to keep support for Oracle Java to stay relevant. IBMs primary interest in Java is consulting - and the consulting-money going to stay with Oracle Java. Google has a lot of stuff in Java, but they're by no means married to it, except for Android/Dalvik. I'd bet they're more keen to push something like Go (or even Scala for that matter). But without the enterprise backing, Java is just a pretty dated language. Scala, on the other hand, is a very modern language by most measures, and it will integrate seamlessly with your Java legacy stuff. Sure, it doesn't solve the problem of depending on the JVM, but if Oracle kills Dalvik, getting a good open source drop-in replacement to the JVM is not going to happen. If not, well, then we have Dalvik :)
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
keyist 16y ago
I'm surprised that IcedTea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icedtea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icedtea ) has not been mentioned yet. From the link: "On June 2008, it was announced that IcedTea6 (as the packaged version of OpenJDK on Fedora 9) has passed the Technology Compatibility Kit tests and can claim to be a fully compatible Java 6 implementation." I'm not a Java developer -- is there something about the project that makes it less appealing than a fork from scratch?
- j_baker 16y ago
  My personal anecdotal experience from using it on Ubuntu is that Iced Tea isn't as reliable or compatible with Java code as the Sun java. Maybe that's changed recently?
  - technomancy 16y ago
    Definitely not true in my experience. The only difference I've noticed is that the Sun one forces you to manually download some jars in order to get strong crypto because of some outdated US legal BS, while openJDK bundles them.
    - crosvenir 16y ago
      The last time I used the openJDK on ubuntu was version 9.10 and then JGoodies LaF looked abysmal. Well, by abysmal I mean that the openJDK inserted spacing between most components and the sun JDK looked consistent with the rendering on Windows and AIX.
      - technomancy 16y ago
        Hmm; I haven't done any GUI work with OpenJDK, but now that you mention it I do remember some caveats about the font rendering engine being one of the pieces that they were having difficult tracking down provenance on for open-sourcing.
  - akeefer 16y ago
    That was true when it first came out; the version shipped with Ubuntu was the 1.6.0_0 version of Iced Tea, which had all sorts of problems. The latest version is fine. For anyone who's curious, OpenJDK was (if I recall correctly) originally a fork of the early JDK7 code line, but with everything JDK7-specific stripped out. Originally it was fairly buggy, so the initial Iced Tea builds of Open JDK6 weren't really usable for production work, but since Open JDK6 was released most of the bug fixes that have gone into the official JDK6 have also been ported to OpenJDK6, so the current version is now fairly stable and should be comparable in quality to the official JDK.
davidw 16y ago
Apache Harmony is something to look at, although of course the Oracle/Android patent suit seems like it might have implications for Harmony.
lukev 16y ago
Time to fork? Yes. Practical to fork? I hope so, but the pessimist in me doubts it.
mjv 16y ago
Too bad, Minecraft just made me respect java a little bit!
whatajoke 16y ago
What is wrong with http://harmony.apache.org/ http://harmony.apache.org/ ? It is a from scratch implementation of the JVM. And is backed by IBM AFAIK.
- wmf 16y ago
  What's wrong is that Oracle won't (ever) allow Harmony to be called Java Compatible™, even though it is.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - whatajoke 16y ago
    > What's wrong is that Oracle won't (ever) allow Harmony to be called Java Compatible, even though it is. The same can be said of a fork. It will not be allowed to run the Java test suite (I forget the name) and certify itself Java. Edit : Typo
- jaaron 16y ago
  There are contributions from many large companies including IBM, Google and Intel.
zephyrfalcon 16y ago
It seems the Lava name has already been taken: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lava_%28programming_language%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lava_%28programming_language%29
- Setsuna 16y ago
  Lava = Libre Java?
shareme 16y ago
The author forgot that java is already forked and supported by many JCP members.. The project is called Harmony an dis under the Apache banner supported by such JCP members as IBM and many OHA members as well. Given Oracle's planned moves they will end up killing java on Mobile except for Android and Java on enterprise except for the open source stacks that support Harmony's use.. Also note that the harmony project does use off-shoots of the JVM research IBM invested in as well..
Hexstream 16y ago
What about: let Java die and let something better take its place?... But it's true I live in an alternate reality.
16s 16y ago
Using the name Lava would surely get you sued. Only one char difference. The trademark holder would be all over that. NcDonalds can't sell BigNacs and get away with doing so.

83 points by auxbuss 16y ago

I've noticed a trend. When people sit around and talk about forking a project, it doesn't happen. When someone forks a project, there's a chance it'll take off. You can't convince someone else to fork something. If they had the drive to fork it, they wouldn't need convincing in the first place.

fierarul 16y ago
Yeah, this is "Armchair forking" -- happens all the time. As you see in this blogpost it starts with the most important thing -- naming the new fork and then goes into some politics and maybe even release schedule. Of course, the second the "Post blog" button has been pressed it's all forgotten as nobody wants to actually spend time working on this.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  http://www.google.com/search?q=%22armchair+forking%22 http://www.google.com/search?q=%22armchair+forking%22 Congratulations on coining a new term!
  - fierarul 16y ago
    Heh, the beauty of English.
rudasn 16y ago
I was watching a video on TED the other day about this phenomenon. If you talk about your goals your brain releases the chemicals that are needed to make you feel that you have actually done something. You "feel good" about doing something even if you haven't actually done it. Having already felt good about your self you have little to no motivation to start doing it. In contrast, if you don't talk about your goals then you really try to achieve them because you know at the end you will "feel good".
- krschultz 16y ago
  That sounds interesting, which TED talk was it?
  - dho 16y ago
    He probably meant this talk: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/derek_sivers_keep_your_goals_to_yourself.html http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/derek_sivers_keep_your_goa...
    - rudasn 16y ago
      yes, that's it
- Jach 16y ago
  Reminds me of the Taoist phrase "Those who know don't speak, those who speak don't know." We're fascinating self-deluding machines...
tomjen3 16y ago
Isn't it generally the case that when people sit down and talk about x, it doesn't happen?
dkarl 16y ago
The bar is a lot higher for forking Java. It's not enough for a few guys to establish a track record of consistent high-quality releases. IBM and Red Hat will only give their support to an organization comparable to the one that controls Java now, which requires a lot of coordination and planning, which in turn requires some high-level decisions made inside organizations that have the personnel, money, and interest to make it happen. A single blog post doesn't accomplish much, but this is the kind of pitch that needs to be made in more detail to the right people inside IBM et al.
InclinedPlane 16y ago
Isn't this just a special case of "someone oughta do X?" syndrome? If it's not important enough for you personally to make the effort to do it, why do you think anyone else will?

dminor 16y ago

Oracle hasn't canceled JavaFX - they're discontinuing JavaFX script. JavaFX is going to live on through an API (third time's the charm for a Java UI API?).

seltzered 16y ago
Still, having a separate markup/scripting language for the UI layout has become an established paradigm for anyone writing apps that need to run in a browser. side note: this action I guess has prompted the creation of "visage" http://steveonjava.com/accouncing-visage/ http://steveonjava.com/accouncing-visage/ as a JavaFX scripting alternative.
zmmmmm 16y ago
I'm actually glad to hear that. I really scratched my head over why on earth Sun invented a new language for scripting UIs even while simultaneously funding things like JRuby, or having options like Groovy or Jython they could have simply run with (albeit, with some slimming down). The mind share they would have gotten by tapping into any one of those communities would have blown the lid off JavaFX adoption. Heck, even just use Javascript / Rhino which already ships with the JVM (which would ironically be a fast way to port Flash / ActionScript developers over). But announcing yet another new language to learn that is not used anywhere else in the universe? Meh.

strebler 16y ago

Can't we just get IBM to make J9 free & open? Last I checked, they supported more OSes than Sun did and the VM was pretty speedy too.

ShabbyDoo 16y ago
I wonder how encumbered it is with Oracle contractual restrictions? Didn't IBM at one point license Sun code to build its own version of the JVM?
- whatajoke 16y ago
  Much of high performance modern VMs (not just JVM) are built on Self project and StrongTalk acquisiotion by Sun. I think Oracle would have quite a few key patents due to this. Though the Visual works contribution to VM technology cannot be discounted. And it is owned by IBM. So probably IBM and Oracle will not use these patents against each other.
  - whatajoke 16y ago
    The excellent research done under Jikes project in IBM cannot be forgotten. It to contributed to IBM's patent portofolio. Bad to reply to own comment, but can't edit it anymore.

barnaby 16y ago

I doubt that even the best quality fork can compete with Oracles sales machine, no matter how badly they ruin Java. Even if all the great and passionate Java developers leave to become Python programmers, Java will still be the most common language out there.

Tyrannosaurs 16y ago
On top of that Java has the brand. Programmers may not feel positive about it but it's embedded in a lot of large organisations, many of whom will, at the management level, be perfectly happy with the Oracle acquisition. They won't see the need or the appeal to move to something else until there is a strong incentive to do so. Against that sort of entrenchment programmers will struggle to influence things a whole load in a lot of Java's key markets.
- dkarl 16y ago
  Users have little obligation with respect to the Java trademark. My organization can use the word "Java" internally to remind our execs that we're doing the safe, boring thing, and there's no problem if we actually deploy Lava or Fava or Cava (my pick) to our servers. As long as we don't publicly advertise that our services rely on Java technology (and who does that anymore?) we're free to call anything Java internally. If Oracle targets an "OMG Don't Get Caught Using Fake Low-Quality Java" marketing campaign at our upper management, we'll talk to management ourselves and paint Oracle as losers who lost their grasp on everything but the trademark and no longer offer the premier, industry-standard implementation that we require.
  - nl 16y ago
    Oracle doesn't do marketing like that. Oracle doesn't care what you do, unless you are in their target market: enterprise software. If you are, then no amount of talking to management will trump the potential of their talk with management: "Sorry, you are using an unsupported configuration. Your 500K support contract is now void, you will no longer receive critical updates and your licence will expire at the end of the month. Good luck getting your data out before then. Oh, BTW, if you keep your database running after the licence is expired then we'll sue you" You'll never win taking Oracle on head on like that. OTOH, they are very vulnerable to new applications that just happen to be written in Cava on a JVM-derived virtual machine.

po 16y ago

The only part of this that makes me think that a fork will have to happen is the fact that IBM, HP, Google, RedHat, etc… have got to be more than a little uncomfortable with Oracle in the driver's seat.

rwl 16y ago

Wouldn't a fork be running smack into a patent suit? I confess to not understanding the Java ecosystem at all, but I do know that Oracle just sued Google over their alternative Java implementation...how could a fork avoid this?

btilly 16y ago
If you start with existing GPL code from Oracle, then you have an implicit patent license. But your code has to be under the GPL. If you meet the "Technology Compatibility Kit", then you're an official Java and have a license. Unfortunately Sun was not in the habit of giving access to the TCK to people who were doing things they did not like with Java, and there is no reason to believe that Oracle will be more generous. Google's problem was that they didn't want GPLed code (wouldn't work for the vendors who want to customize Android), and Sun wouldn't give them access to the TCK. So anyone can create a GPLed fork, or someone who already has access to the TCK (eg IBM) can fork as long as they maintain complete compatibility with the TCK.
- lhnn 16y ago
  So implementing the JVM under the GPL is legal and patent free? A group of companies could get behind an independent JVM already in progress, refine it and back it, without Oracle interference?
  - wmf 16y ago
    No, you only get patent protection if you use Oracle's GPL code (OpenJDK). If you write your own (e.g. GCJ, Kaffe) there's less protection.
    - lhnn 16y ago
      So someone could fork OpenJDK indefinitely without merging and be protected? Where is all of this documented? Where is the primary source on patent/licensing dangers of (writing/forking a JVM|creating your own "version" of Java)? I don't like asking a lot of questions, but I don't know where to look.

retroryan 16y ago

Why fork? Just go with Scala! http://www.scala-lang.org/ http://www.scala-lang.org/

TwoSheds 16y ago
Scala needs the JVM (well, at least it's main implementation does).
- rue 16y ago
  And the article title asks someone to fork Java.
  - adambyrtek 16y ago
    We comment on the contents, not just the title of the article.
    - rue 16y ago
      Frankly, "contents" substituting Java for JVM are pretty worthless. Notwithstanding, the article seems to be either confused about what it wants to fork, or it does indeed want to fork Java in addition to the JVM. Either way, not a stellar effort.
      - adambyrtek 16y ago
        The article mentioned OpenJDK, which contains JVM, but overall I agree that I wouldn't this call to action particularly inspiring.
mseebach 16y ago
Why the downvotes? That's a perfectly reasonable suggestion. Java is attractive because it's mostly sane, and it's backed by The Enterprise in a big way. Sure, if Google, RedHat, HP and IBM gets behind a fork, it could work - but I can't really see what RH and HP has to gain there. They both need to keep support for Oracle Java to stay relevant. IBMs primary interest in Java is consulting - and the consulting-money going to stay with Oracle Java. Google has a lot of stuff in Java, but they're by no means married to it, except for Android/Dalvik. I'd bet they're more keen to push something like Go (or even Scala for that matter). But without the enterprise backing, Java is just a pretty dated language. Scala, on the other hand, is a very modern language by most measures, and it will integrate seamlessly with your Java legacy stuff. Sure, it doesn't solve the problem of depending on the JVM, but if Oracle kills Dalvik, getting a good open source drop-in replacement to the JVM is not going to happen. If not, well, then we have Dalvik :)

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

keyist 16y ago

I'm surprised that IcedTea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icedtea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icedtea ) has not been mentioned yet. From the link: "On June 2008, it was announced that IcedTea6 (as the packaged version of OpenJDK on Fedora 9) has passed the Technology Compatibility Kit tests and can claim to be a fully compatible Java 6 implementation." I'm not a Java developer -- is there something about the project that makes it less appealing than a fork from scratch?

j_baker 16y ago
My personal anecdotal experience from using it on Ubuntu is that Iced Tea isn't as reliable or compatible with Java code as the Sun java. Maybe that's changed recently?
- technomancy 16y ago
  Definitely not true in my experience. The only difference I've noticed is that the Sun one forces you to manually download some jars in order to get strong crypto because of some outdated US legal BS, while openJDK bundles them.
  - crosvenir 16y ago
    The last time I used the openJDK on ubuntu was version 9.10 and then JGoodies LaF looked abysmal. Well, by abysmal I mean that the openJDK inserted spacing between most components and the sun JDK looked consistent with the rendering on Windows and AIX.
    - technomancy 16y ago
      Hmm; I haven't done any GUI work with OpenJDK, but now that you mention it I do remember some caveats about the font rendering engine being one of the pieces that they were having difficult tracking down provenance on for open-sourcing.
- akeefer 16y ago
  That was true when it first came out; the version shipped with Ubuntu was the 1.6.0_0 version of Iced Tea, which had all sorts of problems. The latest version is fine. For anyone who's curious, OpenJDK was (if I recall correctly) originally a fork of the early JDK7 code line, but with everything JDK7-specific stripped out. Originally it was fairly buggy, so the initial Iced Tea builds of Open JDK6 weren't really usable for production work, but since Open JDK6 was released most of the bug fixes that have gone into the official JDK6 have also been ported to OpenJDK6, so the current version is now fairly stable and should be comparable in quality to the official JDK.

davidw 16y ago

Apache Harmony is something to look at, although of course the Oracle/Android patent suit seems like it might have implications for Harmony.

lukev 16y ago

Time to fork? Yes. Practical to fork? I hope so, but the pessimist in me doubts it.

mjv 16y ago

Too bad, Minecraft just made me respect java a little bit!

whatajoke 16y ago

What is wrong with http://harmony.apache.org/ http://harmony.apache.org/ ? It is a from scratch implementation of the JVM. And is backed by IBM AFAIK.

wmf 16y ago
What's wrong is that Oracle won't (ever) allow Harmony to be called Java Compatible™, even though it is.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- whatajoke 16y ago
  > What's wrong is that Oracle won't (ever) allow Harmony to be called Java Compatible, even though it is. The same can be said of a fork. It will not be allowed to run the Java test suite (I forget the name) and certify itself Java. Edit : Typo
jaaron 16y ago
There are contributions from many large companies including IBM, Google and Intel.

zephyrfalcon 16y ago

It seems the Lava name has already been taken: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lava_%28programming_language%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lava_%28programming_language%29

Setsuna 16y ago
Lava = Libre Java?

shareme 16y ago

The author forgot that java is already forked and supported by many JCP members.. The project is called Harmony an dis under the Apache banner supported by such JCP members as IBM and many OHA members as well. Given Oracle's planned moves they will end up killing java on Mobile except for Android and Java on enterprise except for the open source stacks that support Harmony's use.. Also note that the harmony project does use off-shoots of the JVM research IBM invested in as well..

Hexstream 16y ago

What about: let Java die and let something better take its place?... But it's true I live in an alternate reality.

16s 16y ago

Using the name Lava would surely get you sued. Only one char difference. The trademark holder would be all over that. NcDonalds can't sell BigNacs and get away with doing so.