6 ms·

Am I the only one who prefers the nipples on thinkpads?

rataata_jr 8y ago
Uuuuuuhhhhh... Wut? You use that?
lokedhs 8y ago
No, but you are probably in the minority. I have one on the Dell laptop I'm using (which also has a touchpad). Once in a while I try to use it, but I find it almost impossible control with any kind of precision. Changing the sensitivity doesn't help much. I first tried that device on the first Thinkpads that had it, back in the 90's or whenever it was. I have always had the same reaction to it. How do you use it? Is this just a matter of getting used to it, and if it is, how long does it take?
- gjvc 8y ago
  Using a concave rubber top to the TrackPoint helps me greatly.
- chx 8y ago
  The Dell ones are vastly inferior to the ThinkPad ones. While I do not know the ones in the 20, the last ten or so years I worked solely with TrackPoint first under Linux now under Windows 10. Under Windows 10, there's a Mouse tab in Control Panel, there's a sensitivity slider and I found it's best to have it just one notch below fastest. The default makes me feel I am wrestling with my laptop.
  - lokedhs 8y ago
    I see. I haven't tried the Thinkpads since before they were sold to Lenovo, so perhaps they are superior. I am in the market for a new laptop, so perhaps I should give them a chance. Not really for the pointers, but they do seem to be fine laptops overall.
    - Rovanion 8y ago
      Yeah. I got a Dell for my day job and unfortunately the nipple is entirely unusable. I miss my ThinkPad :/
      - tie_ 8y ago
        Same here. I had big hopes for Dell's nipple, but it's hardly usable and I tend to prefer the touchpad. On my own Lenovo, I use the nipple exclusively, and touchpad is disabled completely. I had played Quake vs other human players with the nipple and won, and I find it vastly superior to any kind of touchpad.
      - 738472527784 8y ago
        Can confirm. Dell's nipples are unusable. Nothing like the Thinkpad ones.
- isostatic 8y ago
  I have no idea how not to use it. Right index finger (I'm right handed) moves it round, right thumb presses the keys. I'm not a classic touch typist, but my fingers tend to be near the home row most of the time, having the pointing device one or two keys away, and the mouse buttons next to space, is a big benefit. Having to shift my left hand to the left, and right hand down 3", just to move the pointer, feels like a lot of effort. I use point-to-focus (but not raise) a fair bit too, as moving the mouse is almost as easy as alt-tab, I use it a lot to switch between terminal windows.
  - masklinn 8y ago
    > I have no idea how not to use it. Right index finger (I'm right handed) moves it round, right thumb presses the keys. That's completely immaterial to the precision of it, which is why I'm unable to use it: I never managed to aim at something, I take ages to actually reach a button to click on it (either under- or over-shooting it unless I move the cursor extremely slowly) let alone select some characters in the middle of text. I have that issue on neither trackpad nor mouse, and can use both reliably precisely.
    - isostatic 8y ago
      I find it (on my 8 year old t410s) far more precise than any trackpad I've used, and more precise than the old ball-mouse and trackballs. I guess it's what you know. I actually just used the touchpad on said laptop with my thumb, to move the arrow to the 'reply' button (I have an inbuilt distrust of tab on websites). And now I used the trackpoint to resize the text box to read my reply, again without thinking about it. I suspect that when I'm in "doing" mode I use the trackpoint, when I'm in "consuming" mode I use the pad.
    - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
      Odd. I find the trackpoint more precise than any touchpad, Macs included. I've owned Macbooks for years yet am instantly happier, and faster, on the keyboard and trackpoint of the wife's T series. I'd pay significantly more over already inflated Apple prices to have my MBP with a trackpoint and no touchpad.
pimeys 8y ago
No. I even have a Lenovo USB keyboard which has the nipple for my workstation. Love them.
tty7 8y ago
nope, i am thinking about putting an x1 carbon keyboard into a case so i can use it with my desktop :)
- isostatic 8y ago
  Something like https://support.lenovo.com/gb/en/solutions/migr-73183 https://support.lenovo.com/gb/en/solutions/migr-73183
  - tty7 8y ago
    yep, but i prefer the newer style keyboards. id also make it smaller, no palm rests - closer to a 60key keyboard size.
    - em500 8y ago
      Like this? https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/accessories-and-monitors/keyboards-and-mice/keyboards/KEYBOARD-US-English/p/0B47190 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/accessories-and-monitors/keyboa...
      - tty7 8y ago
        lol where is the fun in that ! but yeah i guess exactly
      - 738472527784 8y ago
        From what I've read, those don't have the same feel as the keyboards used in the laptops and are definitely unrelated hardware. Since the keyboards are one of the "switched/repaired in < 5min parts" of (older) thinkpads, I don't get why there isn't just a case with an USB converter available. I would pay way to much for an authentic external Thinkpad keyboard. Nothing I have encountered so far feels comparable.
        em500 8y ago
        The older versions (like in the earlier link) differ from the laptop counterparts. The recent ones are supposed to be much closer: https://www.thinkscopes.com/2015/08/10/thinkpad-compact-usb-keyboard-review/ https://www.thinkscopes.com/2015/08/10/thinkpad-compact-usb-...
acchow 8y ago
I used thinkpad nipples for 5+ years. Macbook took a couple months of adjustment. But there is almost no use of muscle whatsoever when moving the mouse on a macbook. Thinkpads feel incredibly straining in comparison now. And scrolling on a macbook...completely effortless. There is nothing like it.
- pas 8y ago
  I'm using a Dell Latitude E7440 for years now with Linux, and scrolling is effortless. I'm really intrigued by what exactly the MBP scroll does better.
  - rezeroed 8y ago
    I'm on a latitude 7480 at work. Clunky keyboard, clumsy trackpad, dim screen.
- vinay427 8y ago
  TrackPoint scrolling feels far more effortless to me. No need to move your fingers back and forth repeatedly to keep swiping.
altano 8y ago
I love them when doing programming that requires my fingers to rarely leave the keyboard. It's nice to be able to nudge the mouse here or there occasionally without having the context switch of moving my fingers completely off the keyboard.
- test1235 8y ago
  I've always wondered how these were meant to be used! Of course it makes sense if you're touch typing and your fingers are already there ...
- systoll 8y ago
  To me this was the big benefit of the pressure-sensitive MacBook trackpad —- since clicking is just pressing harder, you can use it with a thumb while your fingers are on the home row.
ghaff 8y ago
For years, they were the only things I would use. I could never effectively use trackpads until I got my first MacBook which had the first one I actively liked rather than barely tolerated. These days, I still have a Lenovo X200 for Linux and still use the pointer there although I'm generally happy with trackpads across the board. (Except on Windows apparently. I had to get a mouse for my 17" Alienware laptop because the trackpad still drove me crazy.)
jlebrech 8y ago
nipples are great if you want to not move away from home row. for casual use a touch pad is better and for gaming a mouse is better.
krylon 8y ago
You are not! It is the main reason why I refuse to attach an external mouse and keyboard to my work laptop!
bluecalm 8y ago
I am the same. I don't use touchpad at all on my Thinkpad. Give me a laptop without one but with better keyboard or at least speaker above it any day. Other than being quick to point to things nipple is amazing for scrolling. This is something Mac can't get close to, especially if you need to scroll a lot.
cuillevel3 8y ago
I also did before I got used to the Macbook touchpad. Now the trackpoint is a last resort or if I'm just typing mostly.
dorfsmay 8y ago
Same here, I'm much more productive with a track point and three buttons. I feel trapped buying Thinkpad (which have slowly become less and less robuste and well-designed) the same way some people in here say they feel trap buying Mac. Having said that, this is the beauty of Linux, let people use what they like, being devices or window managers.
738472527784 8y ago
If it works and you got used to it, it is so great on the integrated display. I got so used to not leaving the home row, I get annoyed when I have to use the arrow keys. My X220 nipple unfortunately became a little unreliable. Needs calibration often (auto moving cursor) and sometimes one direction works better than others. It's annoying, especially since the touchpad is just unusable. Any suggestions? Hardware or software issue? Would a new rubber nipple hood thingy help?
- acomjean 8y ago
  Its probably a hardware issue. I worked at IBM and they were very proud of that device that was invented there. They had a little glass display with the hardware broken out and prototypes. It works with strain gauges[1]. Thats why you can control the speed of the pointer, not just the direction. When you get used to it, its quite effective. You can pull the rubber nub off and try it, that shouldn't help but it might. If its sticking in a position that isn't "Neutral" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick Oddly IBM made a mouse with that nub pointer thing. It worked so much better that any sort of wheel for pointing and scrolling, but I left it when I left IBM many many moons ago.
  - 738472527784 8y ago
    Thanks. Maybe I get a new keyboard (new nipple) alongside some SSDs for the next 6 years to come.
ak217 8y ago
They are great, but the jumbo Macbook trackpads are better (I use both - my macbook's external keyboard is a Lenovo SK-8855). Also, be careful not to strain your fingers too much on the trackpoint. You could easily get carpal tunnel. My fingers start tingling after using the trackpoint for too long.
rkangel 8y ago
No, but I can't get the nipple on my t430 to be as precise as it is on Windows. To quick for small movements or too slow for big ones.
b3b0p 8y ago
No. I prefer the Thinkpad nipple and sad they added a touchpad as it just gets in the way. I wish it was a BTO option to have the nipple only or touchpad only, or both. The nipple on every other manufacturer I have tried isn't even usable. The nipple on the Thinkpad is god like. I used to hear of designers prefer it for Photoshop editing back in the days before Lenovo. That said, I am using a MacBook Pro now with macOS and have been for years because I tend to spend way too much time tinkering to get things perfect.

Uuuuuuhhhhh... Wut? You use that?

No, but you are probably in the minority. I have one on the Dell laptop I'm using (which also has a touchpad). Once in a while I try to use it, but I find it almost impossible control with any kind of precision. Changing the sensitivity doesn't help much. I first tried that device on the first Thinkpads that had it, back in the 90's or whenever it was. I have always had the same reaction to it. How do you use it? Is this just a matter of getting used to it, and if it is, how long does it take?

gjvc 8y ago
Using a concave rubber top to the TrackPoint helps me greatly.
chx 8y ago
The Dell ones are vastly inferior to the ThinkPad ones. While I do not know the ones in the 20, the last ten or so years I worked solely with TrackPoint first under Linux now under Windows 10. Under Windows 10, there's a Mouse tab in Control Panel, there's a sensitivity slider and I found it's best to have it just one notch below fastest. The default makes me feel I am wrestling with my laptop.
- lokedhs 8y ago
  I see. I haven't tried the Thinkpads since before they were sold to Lenovo, so perhaps they are superior. I am in the market for a new laptop, so perhaps I should give them a chance. Not really for the pointers, but they do seem to be fine laptops overall.
  - Rovanion 8y ago
    Yeah. I got a Dell for my day job and unfortunately the nipple is entirely unusable. I miss my ThinkPad :/
    - tie_ 8y ago
      Same here. I had big hopes for Dell's nipple, but it's hardly usable and I tend to prefer the touchpad. On my own Lenovo, I use the nipple exclusively, and touchpad is disabled completely. I had played Quake vs other human players with the nipple and won, and I find it vastly superior to any kind of touchpad.
    - 738472527784 8y ago
      Can confirm. Dell's nipples are unusable. Nothing like the Thinkpad ones.
isostatic 8y ago
I have no idea how not to use it. Right index finger (I'm right handed) moves it round, right thumb presses the keys. I'm not a classic touch typist, but my fingers tend to be near the home row most of the time, having the pointing device one or two keys away, and the mouse buttons next to space, is a big benefit. Having to shift my left hand to the left, and right hand down 3", just to move the pointer, feels like a lot of effort. I use point-to-focus (but not raise) a fair bit too, as moving the mouse is almost as easy as alt-tab, I use it a lot to switch between terminal windows.
- masklinn 8y ago
  > I have no idea how not to use it. Right index finger (I'm right handed) moves it round, right thumb presses the keys. That's completely immaterial to the precision of it, which is why I'm unable to use it: I never managed to aim at something, I take ages to actually reach a button to click on it (either under- or over-shooting it unless I move the cursor extremely slowly) let alone select some characters in the middle of text. I have that issue on neither trackpad nor mouse, and can use both reliably precisely.
  - isostatic 8y ago
    I find it (on my 8 year old t410s) far more precise than any trackpad I've used, and more precise than the old ball-mouse and trackballs. I guess it's what you know. I actually just used the touchpad on said laptop with my thumb, to move the arrow to the 'reply' button (I have an inbuilt distrust of tab on websites). And now I used the trackpoint to resize the text box to read my reply, again without thinking about it. I suspect that when I'm in "doing" mode I use the trackpoint, when I'm in "consuming" mode I use the pad.
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    Odd. I find the trackpoint more precise than any touchpad, Macs included. I've owned Macbooks for years yet am instantly happier, and faster, on the keyboard and trackpoint of the wife's T series. I'd pay significantly more over already inflated Apple prices to have my MBP with a trackpoint and no touchpad.

pimeys 8y ago

No. I even have a Lenovo USB keyboard which has the nipple for my workstation. Love them.

tty7 8y ago

nope, i am thinking about putting an x1 carbon keyboard into a case so i can use it with my desktop :)

isostatic 8y ago
Something like https://support.lenovo.com/gb/en/solutions/migr-73183 https://support.lenovo.com/gb/en/solutions/migr-73183
- tty7 8y ago
  yep, but i prefer the newer style keyboards. id also make it smaller, no palm rests - closer to a 60key keyboard size.
  - em500 8y ago
    Like this? https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/accessories-and-monitors/keyboards-and-mice/keyboards/KEYBOARD-US-English/p/0B47190 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/accessories-and-monitors/keyboa...
    - tty7 8y ago
      lol where is the fun in that ! but yeah i guess exactly
    - 738472527784 8y ago
      From what I've read, those don't have the same feel as the keyboards used in the laptops and are definitely unrelated hardware. Since the keyboards are one of the "switched/repaired in < 5min parts" of (older) thinkpads, I don't get why there isn't just a case with an USB converter available. I would pay way to much for an authentic external Thinkpad keyboard. Nothing I have encountered so far feels comparable.
      - em500 8y ago
        The older versions (like in the earlier link) differ from the laptop counterparts. The recent ones are supposed to be much closer: https://www.thinkscopes.com/2015/08/10/thinkpad-compact-usb-keyboard-review/ https://www.thinkscopes.com/2015/08/10/thinkpad-compact-usb-...

acchow 8y ago

I used thinkpad nipples for 5+ years. Macbook took a couple months of adjustment. But there is almost no use of muscle whatsoever when moving the mouse on a macbook. Thinkpads feel incredibly straining in comparison now. And scrolling on a macbook...completely effortless. There is nothing like it.

pas 8y ago
I'm using a Dell Latitude E7440 for years now with Linux, and scrolling is effortless. I'm really intrigued by what exactly the MBP scroll does better.
- rezeroed 8y ago
  I'm on a latitude 7480 at work. Clunky keyboard, clumsy trackpad, dim screen.
vinay427 8y ago
TrackPoint scrolling feels far more effortless to me. No need to move your fingers back and forth repeatedly to keep swiping.

altano 8y ago

I love them when doing programming that requires my fingers to rarely leave the keyboard. It's nice to be able to nudge the mouse here or there occasionally without having the context switch of moving my fingers completely off the keyboard.

test1235 8y ago
I've always wondered how these were meant to be used! Of course it makes sense if you're touch typing and your fingers are already there ...
systoll 8y ago
To me this was the big benefit of the pressure-sensitive MacBook trackpad —- since clicking is just pressing harder, you can use it with a thumb while your fingers are on the home row.

ghaff 8y ago

For years, they were the only things I would use. I could never effectively use trackpads until I got my first MacBook which had the first one I actively liked rather than barely tolerated. These days, I still have a Lenovo X200 for Linux and still use the pointer there although I'm generally happy with trackpads across the board. (Except on Windows apparently. I had to get a mouse for my 17" Alienware laptop because the trackpad still drove me crazy.)

jlebrech 8y ago

nipples are great if you want to not move away from home row. for casual use a touch pad is better and for gaming a mouse is better.

krylon 8y ago

You are not! It is the main reason why I refuse to attach an external mouse and keyboard to my work laptop!

bluecalm 8y ago

I am the same. I don't use touchpad at all on my Thinkpad. Give me a laptop without one but with better keyboard or at least speaker above it any day. Other than being quick to point to things nipple is amazing for scrolling. This is something Mac can't get close to, especially if you need to scroll a lot.

cuillevel3 8y ago

I also did before I got used to the Macbook touchpad. Now the trackpoint is a last resort or if I'm just typing mostly.

dorfsmay 8y ago

Same here, I'm much more productive with a track point and three buttons. I feel trapped buying Thinkpad (which have slowly become less and less robuste and well-designed) the same way some people in here say they feel trap buying Mac. Having said that, this is the beauty of Linux, let people use what they like, being devices or window managers.

738472527784 8y ago

If it works and you got used to it, it is so great on the integrated display. I got so used to not leaving the home row, I get annoyed when I have to use the arrow keys. My X220 nipple unfortunately became a little unreliable. Needs calibration often (auto moving cursor) and sometimes one direction works better than others. It's annoying, especially since the touchpad is just unusable. Any suggestions? Hardware or software issue? Would a new rubber nipple hood thingy help?

acomjean 8y ago
Its probably a hardware issue. I worked at IBM and they were very proud of that device that was invented there. They had a little glass display with the hardware broken out and prototypes. It works with strain gauges[1]. Thats why you can control the speed of the pointer, not just the direction. When you get used to it, its quite effective. You can pull the rubber nub off and try it, that shouldn't help but it might. If its sticking in a position that isn't "Neutral" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick Oddly IBM made a mouse with that nub pointer thing. It worked so much better that any sort of wheel for pointing and scrolling, but I left it when I left IBM many many moons ago.
- 738472527784 8y ago
  Thanks. Maybe I get a new keyboard (new nipple) alongside some SSDs for the next 6 years to come.

ak217 8y ago

They are great, but the jumbo Macbook trackpads are better (I use both - my macbook's external keyboard is a Lenovo SK-8855). Also, be careful not to strain your fingers too much on the trackpoint. You could easily get carpal tunnel. My fingers start tingling after using the trackpoint for too long.

rkangel 8y ago

No, but I can't get the nipple on my t430 to be as precise as it is on Windows. To quick for small movements or too slow for big ones.

b3b0p 8y ago

No. I prefer the Thinkpad nipple and sad they added a touchpad as it just gets in the way. I wish it was a BTO option to have the nipple only or touchpad only, or both. The nipple on every other manufacturer I have tried isn't even usable. The nipple on the Thinkpad is god like. I used to hear of designers prefer it for Photoshop editing back in the days before Lenovo. That said, I am using a MacBook Pro now with macOS and have been for years because I tend to spend way too much time tinkering to get things perfect.