8 ms·

There’s an easy litmus test to see whether or not someone is worth further engaging with and it is this. Does the person make your life better or makes you happ

There’s an easy litmus test to see whether or not someone is worth further engaging with and it is this. Does the person make your life better or makes you happy? If people are constantly putting you down or not wanting to listen to you or are hard to get ahold of, these are all signs that you may have misplaced atachmments to the relationship and it’s time to get out. Going through this you may ask yourself what does this other person have going on in their life? What are you contributing to the relationship that may be of burden to others and cause them to act this way towards you. Upon addressing these questions you may then assess what you may need to change in how you interact with other people if anything or wether or not the other person is in a position at this stage of their life to to be able to participate in yours. Having been on both sides of this I’ve found approaching all relationships with humility and compassion goes a long way towards alleviating any tensions.

rvn1045 8y ago
succinctly put. a simple insight that can take years to figure out.
- wizardforhire 8y ago
  Thanks! It did.
vecinu 8y ago
> are hard to get ahold of I have a friend that is like this, he's very difficult to get a hold of through messaging/e-mail or text. When we're hanging out together, we have a great time (at least it seems like it from my point of view) but he rarely makes the effort to seek out things we could do together. Is that an unhealthy relationship in the sense that I crave his attention/time more than he does mine? Are some people just more introverted and don't socialize as much?
- andrewingram 8y ago
  Sounds like he has some sort of social anxiety to be honest. You’ve basically just described me.
  - petersellers 8y ago
    I have the same problem. I get extremely anxious whenever I am in charge of planning a social event but if one of my friends plans something I always have a great time when I attend.
    - ChrisFoster 8y ago
      As a slight variation on the same theme - just the anticipation of a social event can make me quite anxious and edgy regardless of whether I've been part of the planning. The thing that fixes it for me is going to events with a clear group activity other than "generic socializing".
- deleted 8y ago
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- fimdomeio 8y ago
  I have friends since university that I would have completely lost if it wasn't from the effort on my side, for us to get together. At some extreme point I had one friend complaining that I was not calling her enough while she never actually did it herself. We have a great time when we're together and I know that these friendships are very important for me and for them. At some point I just started assuming that it is part of my role in life... to be the one that makes the phone call.
  - wizardforhire 8y ago
    This. Relationships are two way streets. Humbling yourself to this fact while having compassion for where others are at and what they have going on in their life can give you the courage you may need to pick up the phone and call while alleviating the fear that they are not reaching out because they don’t appreciate or like you.
  - chrisbennet 8y ago
    My Dad once complained that my sister never called him. She pointed out that "The phone lines go both ways you know."
- Swizec 8y ago
  As someone who is like that: Is it possible they’re just constantly overcommitted and stretched thin? I enjoy hanging out with my friends, but whenever I do it feels like I have to take great pains to carve the time out of my schedule, reshuffle a bunch of priorities, and try to somehow keep my head above water despite the reduced time in the day. What do them is a “Lets grab a quick drink” is to me a “What am I not getting done this week and how far behind will that put me?” Hence I never reach out proactively. Any spare time goes to keeping the SO relationshio strong.
  - itronitron 8y ago
    As someone with children and limited social engagement with other adults (other than spouse) I hold my last interaction with any adult in perpetuity. The quantity and frequency of interaction takes a back seat to quality.
- std_throwaway 8y ago
  Some people wait for an external trigger. If you're having a good time, meet them from time to time. Don't stress it. It's good.
- ravenstine 8y ago
  I am probably that guy to a lot of people. For me, it has nothing to do with social anxiety, disrespect, etc. It's all about how I value my time differently from others. In my world, there's no such thing as recreation or relaxation, beyond the occasional Halo game. I do everything with objectives in mind. I constantly have several thoughts and ideas floating around in my head that I have to coalesce into coherence, because one of those ideas might be worth further investigation. When someone texts me, messages me, emails me, etc., that's a relatively small interruption but can easily throw everything off in my head when I'm in the middle of a thread of thought. It's even worse if I am trying to focus on a specific task at hand. Yeah, I'm a serious person, but I enjoy the way my mind works and have been much happier by embracing it instead of treating it as a sickness (like the public school system). So when I get those handful of messages coming at me every day, I ignore most of them and reply later, if ever. I know this hurts people sometimes, and I try to help them understand. Buy I've given up explaining this over and over again. My ideas and questions around writing a line encoder are more important than your cat photos or going out for lunch, or favors for things one can easily take care of on their own. It's not that I don't love my friends and family, but I can't have their drivel constantly loop around in my head.
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  - katzgrau 8y ago
    This is me exactly - and interestingly enough, the parent post sounds like a lot of my friends. I find text messaging and chats distracting from what I'm doing. But when I do hang out with my friends or family, they have my undivided attention and we have a great time.
    - harlanji 8y ago
      Cool, I’m not special validation. I like the focus on quality while present. That’s what I sell. If I forget to tell a new partner, now... we gave a great date and then she wants to start texting intensely, and feels I’m blowing her off and has resulted in anger over being led on/brushed off. No loss on my part, but I always forget on my first few dates after some time off and it results in disappointment or worse on their part, seemingly needlessly. Careful out there, fellow focus junkies.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  I tend to let other people initiate. It isn't because I don't want attention. It's more complicated than that. I will suggest that instead of guessing or asking internet strangers to guess, you would be better off just asking your friend a few questions. Some people are just busy. Some people just don't do text messages or don't check their email regularly. Some people have social anxiety. Etc. Etc. There can be lots of obstacles to making a connection that have nothing to do with the other person just not liking you. Only you can decide if you are getting enough out of it to keep at it.
- cm2012 8y ago
  My wife is very socially anxious and its very hard for other people to get in touch with her out of the blue. But she loves them dearly. I wouldn't take it too personally if you enjoy your time together. It's probably not out of disrespect.
- sn41 8y ago
  I am not a professional therapist, but he sounds like a person with anxiety, probably of the Anxious-Avoidant type. I am optimistic that once there is a basic understanding and respect of each person's needs and bounds, almost every relationship can be made to work.
- cyberferret 8y ago
  My wife and kids are constantly pushing me to call my friends and arrange hangouts with them. It is not that I am anti-social or particularly introverted. I genuinely love my friends and love it when I hang out with them - however I just always seem to be busy doing stuff and never really realise that I haven't called any of them for many weeks. It is just not in my nature to reach out randomly to see if someone wants to hang out. I think a lot of it is to do with how I was raised - I think it was ingrained in my psyche that it was 'rude' to call upon people and better to wait until they called you. To reach out was seeing a impolite or possibly interrupting their important work, I think. Funny how those little beliefs/lessons when you are a kid tends to follow you into adulthood.
- Senderman 8y ago
  A lot of people are chiming in on 'being that person' - it's me, as well. I find text awkward, shallow, and ultimately I spin my wheels trying to decode and write messages - the kind of enegry I specifically need for things I'm working on. Not to mention I prefer to just wait until the next time I see somebody in person so that the interaction will actually be meaningful. A lot of people don't consider the world of difference between in-person communication and making a small electronic object beep-and-buzz near the recipient on their behalf. About your question: The problem of deciding if a relationship is 'unhealthy' is very open-ended and rough. I can never arrive at a binary answer, and the topic does make me sad. Attention is hard to gauge and manage. You have some great specific questions though, like Does he crave attention in the same way, Why doesn't he like messaging, etc. You two should find a way to talk about it. That's what I'd do. All I know for sure is that relying on electronic communication can have weird and annoying effects on friendships where neither person quite realises there's a problem.
- apatters 8y ago
  One thing to consider is that social networks are naturally unequal. They have hubs and connectors and edges. Which one are you? Which one is he? I think a hub will tend to have more shallow relationships because he has so many connections and there's only so much time in the day. Someone with few connections may be much more invested in each one. I'm not making any value judgments here I am just describing the terrain. On the other hand, maybe he just doesn't like to be glued to a screen chatting with people all day. I freakin' hate it and have made great efforts to cut down.
- amorphous 8y ago
  No, it's just that other people have different ways to use technology. I'm very text-based, so writing a quick message fits me best. I have a friend, non-tech, very busy, very sociable, that you can only reach by calling him. I stopped wasting time pondering those questions, just accepted the fact the way people communicate can vary vastly, and if someone is difficult to get hold of then that's how it is. Better spend my time making more contacts.
- poisonarena 8y ago
  I have dealt with a few relationships exactly like this, my best friend for years was like this, and I had to just give up . Some people are socially awkward, or have weird hang ups, and you should afford more lenience in those cases maybe. But I have noticed that some seem to actually get satisfaction from the power of being wanted that way. Like pleasure from 'leaving you on read'. When I was younger in my late teens early twenties this was mostly experienced with new romantic interests acting cool or trying to make themselves a rare commodity, but when that happens in a plutonic relationship I wont even bother with the person..
mlthoughts2018 8y ago
Some of the people who have contributed the most to making my life better have been the most frustrating people to be around or communicate with. I have an amazingly brilliant friend who is incredibly miserly and has a really harsh world view. He makes my life better because I am challenged by him and he won't let me comfortably stick to the beliefs I already have. If he thinks they are dumb, he'll tell me just that (usually in a pretty crabby way), and quite often he is right. He has been right and insightful enough that when he clashes with my point of view, that is solid evidence to me that I ought to re-think why I have the viewpoint that I have and perhaps update it. I just think some people are surly, miserly, cheerless, grouches and that is just their way in life. If you respond by shutting them out because it's inconvenient for your short-term feelings, you might miss out on an amazing person who just happens to live life differently. Once I started to see miserly behavior as "just another way of life" that some people like and some people don't, it really opened my eyes to many more people around me. In this sense, I think it's very shallow to ask "do they make my life better" (which will almost surely be biased by whatever short term comforts or simple, manageable friendship you want) or "do they make me happy" (sometimes the best thing for us is something that shocks our system, upsets our worldview, challenges us in a non-trivial way, and we might have to endure receiving that in thorny, grumpy packaging). Obviously there is a limit. With my friend, I know that grumpiness is his way of life. He doesn't mean gruff or callous things to be taken as insults, even though most shallow social interaction he has with people, especially if they don't know him, might come off that way. If I thought he sincerely was putting me down or insulting me purely for the sake of inflicting pain or something, then yeah, I would not want that in my life. Overall I guess I am just saying I think it's much more complicated than the heuristic you describe. If I followed that heuristic, it would be a lot like indulging confirmation bias and surrounding myself only with people who reinforce the stuff I already think or do. I might miss out on great relationship where a healthy antagonism is a first-order component of the interaction, and it stretches my boundaries.
- s-shellfish 8y ago
  I'm very similar, and most of my life I have hidden my more sad, negative side. It makes me feel genuinely better that people like you exist. Because half the reason we are so miserable is because we know we are miserable, it's intricately attached to our identity, decoupling it from all our reasoning to see the brighter side of life isn't a switch that can be instantly flipped, and it requires trust between people who won't judge us for not having the energy to fake a smile when we can't. The power of positive thinking can be destructive if it has been automated. Negative thinking can be the same way - it can be automated, although from my experience, my negative thinking usually helps me see flaws in my own reasoning to such excess that I don't feel I'm at risk for it being automated without being able to reason myself out of whatever is automatic. I'm glad you are thoughtful enough (and that's not meant as a back handed compliment, abstractly positive thinking and negative thinking function the same way, they just interact with different components of self-social systems) to see things in less simplified ways. I have one friend who is like you, and it's constantly a struggle to override my belief system that they are sick of me. But that's the automatic thinking spiral I get stuck in. And I would think most people who are cynical like that think similarly, because that's what we are used to. Emotional vampires, black holes, draining. All those pejoratives affect our self perspective. We don't know how people will judge us. It's nice that people are willing to speak from another perspective. Positive thinking, from when I've experienced it, can feel very group think, like, everything will fall apart if you stop thinking that way. That is such a suppressive ideology to me, it feels dangerous, and I'm not comfortable simply allowing myself to be one directionally convinced into thinking that way. It doesn't take my perspective into account. So in the end, I find, the people who can handle interacting with me and staying positive have very strong minds, both intellectually and emotionally. And they demonstrate that there is a brighter side to life that doesn't imply we're all going to jump off a cliff because it's fun, and not see the ground coming. Sometimes bad things happen in life. It can't all be controlled by attitude. There are real things that happen in life that affect emotions. Forcing oneself to pretend everything is fine is suicidal. I'm not used to being happy. It makes me uncomfortable often. That doesn't mean I fear it. It just means I have to be very careful in experiencing the emotion. Sadness too. Sadness over things that make you sad shouldn't be suppressed, nor should it be attached to people like 'those people made me sad'. That's just going to hurt a person in the long run, because sadness is an awareness. You need sadness to know happiness. Suppressing emotions leads to convoluted reasoning, missed connections, insight and clarity into one's own circumstances, real things. I feel neutral talking to you, but I feel better in general knowing most of humanity isn't on a collision course to remove half of it's emotional reasoning away.
timr 8y ago
This approach also allows for the reality that not all "positive" people are necessarily optimists. There's room for all kinds of valid perspectives in this world, and if you limit yourself to people who are engaged in a constant exercise of blowing rose-scented smoke up your butt (extremely common in the US, particularly places dominated by techno-utopian types...), you're missing out. People who make your life better don't always have to be saying happy things to you. There are few things worse than people who are surrounded with a thick layer of "positive thinkers", who never deliver bad news or critical thinking. It's a fast track to delusion.
extralego 8y ago
It’s quite basic to see where you’re coming from; quite limited to convince yourself it’s sufficient or even consistent. You’re conception overlooks the value in systematic considerations that build-in humility and compassion independent of judgement and measurements of interpersonal compatibility. I’m talking about the basis for some of the most critical elements of a functional society, like morals and other insistutions which defend and bring dignity to people who may be disabled, ugly, foreign, poor, uneducated, etc. Humility and compassion can and must extend beyond your doorstep. This does not require you to be forced with disgust, discomfort, offense or anything of the like. But maybe it requires a basic concern for people as a whole and an appreciation for the deep complexities that bring your experiences to life, and for some people a walk in others shoes seems to be one of the only paths. The idea is “humility and compassion” optimized on a systemic level, and not subject to the whims and follies of individual judgement and interpersonal emotion. This is the justification for morals. Be careful to not mistake morals for fairness, for fairness is subject to the aforementioned weaknesses.
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- wizardforhire 8y ago
  It’s impossible for me to agree more. Hence why I was cautious to extend the principle to all relationships. Once we look at ourselves we are free to extrapolate about systems greater than ourselves. I felt it prudent to post as the article was fairly basic and yet somehow missed the point. The aforementioned principles which you so aptly describe are part of the foundation by which a solid moral compass may be constructed. That these principles as basic as they are, are not known or employed by more is truly a tragedy. Thank you for your articulate illustration which in its critique provides greater understanding of subtle nuances that, from the looks of how this tread is evolving, will surely be of service to others.
  - gollyned 8y ago
    I don't understand your reply, or the comment you're replying to -- if it's not too much trouble, could you rephrase this?
extradego 8y ago
Easy litmus tests to measure a person’s worth stand in a very awkward contrast to your purported “humility and compassion.” Of course, you’re talking about decisions on whether to interpersonally engage and your advice seems fine and good until the last sentence. Let’s be honest: This is a selfish pursuit and “humility and compassion” are the wrong words. Open-minded works so go with that. But look into humility and compassion. Our society is is desperate need of the real thing.
hashkb 8y ago
Sometimes you're depressed or lazy or for whatever reason consistently doing unproductive or annoying things. In this case, good friends might make you feel bad about yourself in the course of helping you improve your life. Not everything can be judged by how it makes you feel.
- grasshopperpurp 8y ago
  This is an excellent caveat to the OP's post, which is good general advice. In my mid-20s, I was working 3rd shift, and a lot of hours, while my then and current GF was working a lot of hours on 1st shift. We had lived together for 5+ years by this point, but I was extremely discontent with life (as background, we had a great friendship that turned into an amazing relationship before the stress began to take its toll). Through a combination of always feeling like a zombie, feeling disconnected, lack of communication, just generally feeling terrible about life, and her being the closest to me, I became convinced that my unhappiness stemmed from our relationship, rather than my own immaturity meeting and external factors. Probably important to note that during this time I never lost respect, love, or admiration; I just questioned our compatibility. Thankfully, I took time to question my conclusions, and I received some good advice from a good friends. I took some big steps forward in understanding my self and my relationship, changed jobs (no more 3rd shift), and the level of communication shot through the roof. Some years later, I wouldn't say we have a perfect relationship, but it's more perfect than I thought possible. There are still outside stresses, but we're steadying forces in each other's lives. Definitely don't stick around people who make you feel terrible - or any kind of net negative, but many times when we're making these calculations, we're not in our most centered states, so be careful to make sure that the friend in question is the source of displeasure, rather than yourself/external factors.
king_nothing 8y ago
That’s an immature perspective. Actually, that’s not the most important litmus test; it’s whether you trust them completely to make good decisions with your life, kids if present and all your worldly life in their hands should you be incapacitated and that they can keep things together. Being insanely happy or at least content is a bonus.. but their job isn’t to make you happy, that’s your job. Another common antipattern: NRE lasts a year or two, so those new turnips expecting infatuation to sustain things and be “totally perfect” after their giant wedding is also a recipe for disaster.
slx26 8y ago
When you suffer from depression or just have a miserable life that feels like a very cruel and direct rejection from others. I'd suggest to complement that with "can you make the person life better or make the person happier?" I can tell from your comments in this thread that you are exactly the opposite of a mean/cruel person, so this is a good example of what you said yourself: that even trying to be nice with others you might still come across like all the opposite. Of course your point is still equally or more important, as it becomes harder to help others when you can't even make a good life for yourself. But giving can be many times life changing for others.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  Funny, I've done a lot of good for other people while failing to make a good life for myself. Part of that is due to lack of reciprocity: Often, people I did things for didn't do anything for me in exchange, in part due to toxic sexism in many cases.

rvn1045 8y ago

succinctly put. a simple insight that can take years to figure out.

wizardforhire 8y ago
Thanks! It did.

vecinu 8y ago

> are hard to get ahold of I have a friend that is like this, he's very difficult to get a hold of through messaging/e-mail or text. When we're hanging out together, we have a great time (at least it seems like it from my point of view) but he rarely makes the effort to seek out things we could do together. Is that an unhealthy relationship in the sense that I crave his attention/time more than he does mine? Are some people just more introverted and don't socialize as much?

andrewingram 8y ago
Sounds like he has some sort of social anxiety to be honest. You’ve basically just described me.
- petersellers 8y ago
  I have the same problem. I get extremely anxious whenever I am in charge of planning a social event but if one of my friends plans something I always have a great time when I attend.
  - ChrisFoster 8y ago
    As a slight variation on the same theme - just the anticipation of a social event can make me quite anxious and edgy regardless of whether I've been part of the planning. The thing that fixes it for me is going to events with a clear group activity other than "generic socializing".
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fimdomeio 8y ago
I have friends since university that I would have completely lost if it wasn't from the effort on my side, for us to get together. At some extreme point I had one friend complaining that I was not calling her enough while she never actually did it herself. We have a great time when we're together and I know that these friendships are very important for me and for them. At some point I just started assuming that it is part of my role in life... to be the one that makes the phone call.
- wizardforhire 8y ago
  This. Relationships are two way streets. Humbling yourself to this fact while having compassion for where others are at and what they have going on in their life can give you the courage you may need to pick up the phone and call while alleviating the fear that they are not reaching out because they don’t appreciate or like you.
- chrisbennet 8y ago
  My Dad once complained that my sister never called him. She pointed out that "The phone lines go both ways you know."
Swizec 8y ago
As someone who is like that: Is it possible they’re just constantly overcommitted and stretched thin? I enjoy hanging out with my friends, but whenever I do it feels like I have to take great pains to carve the time out of my schedule, reshuffle a bunch of priorities, and try to somehow keep my head above water despite the reduced time in the day. What do them is a “Lets grab a quick drink” is to me a “What am I not getting done this week and how far behind will that put me?” Hence I never reach out proactively. Any spare time goes to keeping the SO relationshio strong.
- itronitron 8y ago
  As someone with children and limited social engagement with other adults (other than spouse) I hold my last interaction with any adult in perpetuity. The quantity and frequency of interaction takes a back seat to quality.
std_throwaway 8y ago
Some people wait for an external trigger. If you're having a good time, meet them from time to time. Don't stress it. It's good.
ravenstine 8y ago
I am probably that guy to a lot of people. For me, it has nothing to do with social anxiety, disrespect, etc. It's all about how I value my time differently from others. In my world, there's no such thing as recreation or relaxation, beyond the occasional Halo game. I do everything with objectives in mind. I constantly have several thoughts and ideas floating around in my head that I have to coalesce into coherence, because one of those ideas might be worth further investigation. When someone texts me, messages me, emails me, etc., that's a relatively small interruption but can easily throw everything off in my head when I'm in the middle of a thread of thought. It's even worse if I am trying to focus on a specific task at hand. Yeah, I'm a serious person, but I enjoy the way my mind works and have been much happier by embracing it instead of treating it as a sickness (like the public school system). So when I get those handful of messages coming at me every day, I ignore most of them and reply later, if ever. I know this hurts people sometimes, and I try to help them understand. Buy I've given up explaining this over and over again. My ideas and questions around writing a line encoder are more important than your cat photos or going out for lunch, or favors for things one can easily take care of on their own. It's not that I don't love my friends and family, but I can't have their drivel constantly loop around in my head.
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- katzgrau 8y ago
  This is me exactly - and interestingly enough, the parent post sounds like a lot of my friends. I find text messaging and chats distracting from what I'm doing. But when I do hang out with my friends or family, they have my undivided attention and we have a great time.
  - harlanji 8y ago
    Cool, I’m not special validation. I like the focus on quality while present. That’s what I sell. If I forget to tell a new partner, now... we gave a great date and then she wants to start texting intensely, and feels I’m blowing her off and has resulted in anger over being led on/brushed off. No loss on my part, but I always forget on my first few dates after some time off and it results in disappointment or worse on their part, seemingly needlessly. Careful out there, fellow focus junkies.
DoreenMichele 8y ago
I tend to let other people initiate. It isn't because I don't want attention. It's more complicated than that. I will suggest that instead of guessing or asking internet strangers to guess, you would be better off just asking your friend a few questions. Some people are just busy. Some people just don't do text messages or don't check their email regularly. Some people have social anxiety. Etc. Etc. There can be lots of obstacles to making a connection that have nothing to do with the other person just not liking you. Only you can decide if you are getting enough out of it to keep at it.
cm2012 8y ago
My wife is very socially anxious and its very hard for other people to get in touch with her out of the blue. But she loves them dearly. I wouldn't take it too personally if you enjoy your time together. It's probably not out of disrespect.
sn41 8y ago
I am not a professional therapist, but he sounds like a person with anxiety, probably of the Anxious-Avoidant type. I am optimistic that once there is a basic understanding and respect of each person's needs and bounds, almost every relationship can be made to work.
cyberferret 8y ago
My wife and kids are constantly pushing me to call my friends and arrange hangouts with them. It is not that I am anti-social or particularly introverted. I genuinely love my friends and love it when I hang out with them - however I just always seem to be busy doing stuff and never really realise that I haven't called any of them for many weeks. It is just not in my nature to reach out randomly to see if someone wants to hang out. I think a lot of it is to do with how I was raised - I think it was ingrained in my psyche that it was 'rude' to call upon people and better to wait until they called you. To reach out was seeing a impolite or possibly interrupting their important work, I think. Funny how those little beliefs/lessons when you are a kid tends to follow you into adulthood.
Senderman 8y ago
A lot of people are chiming in on 'being that person' - it's me, as well. I find text awkward, shallow, and ultimately I spin my wheels trying to decode and write messages - the kind of enegry I specifically need for things I'm working on. Not to mention I prefer to just wait until the next time I see somebody in person so that the interaction will actually be meaningful. A lot of people don't consider the world of difference between in-person communication and making a small electronic object beep-and-buzz near the recipient on their behalf. About your question: The problem of deciding if a relationship is 'unhealthy' is very open-ended and rough. I can never arrive at a binary answer, and the topic does make me sad. Attention is hard to gauge and manage. You have some great specific questions though, like Does he crave attention in the same way, Why doesn't he like messaging, etc. You two should find a way to talk about it. That's what I'd do. All I know for sure is that relying on electronic communication can have weird and annoying effects on friendships where neither person quite realises there's a problem.
apatters 8y ago
One thing to consider is that social networks are naturally unequal. They have hubs and connectors and edges. Which one are you? Which one is he? I think a hub will tend to have more shallow relationships because he has so many connections and there's only so much time in the day. Someone with few connections may be much more invested in each one. I'm not making any value judgments here I am just describing the terrain. On the other hand, maybe he just doesn't like to be glued to a screen chatting with people all day. I freakin' hate it and have made great efforts to cut down.
amorphous 8y ago
No, it's just that other people have different ways to use technology. I'm very text-based, so writing a quick message fits me best. I have a friend, non-tech, very busy, very sociable, that you can only reach by calling him. I stopped wasting time pondering those questions, just accepted the fact the way people communicate can vary vastly, and if someone is difficult to get hold of then that's how it is. Better spend my time making more contacts.
poisonarena 8y ago
I have dealt with a few relationships exactly like this, my best friend for years was like this, and I had to just give up . Some people are socially awkward, or have weird hang ups, and you should afford more lenience in those cases maybe. But I have noticed that some seem to actually get satisfaction from the power of being wanted that way. Like pleasure from 'leaving you on read'. When I was younger in my late teens early twenties this was mostly experienced with new romantic interests acting cool or trying to make themselves a rare commodity, but when that happens in a plutonic relationship I wont even bother with the person..

mlthoughts2018 8y ago

Some of the people who have contributed the most to making my life better have been the most frustrating people to be around or communicate with. I have an amazingly brilliant friend who is incredibly miserly and has a really harsh world view. He makes my life better because I am challenged by him and he won't let me comfortably stick to the beliefs I already have. If he thinks they are dumb, he'll tell me just that (usually in a pretty crabby way), and quite often he is right. He has been right and insightful enough that when he clashes with my point of view, that is solid evidence to me that I ought to re-think why I have the viewpoint that I have and perhaps update it. I just think some people are surly, miserly, cheerless, grouches and that is just their way in life. If you respond by shutting them out because it's inconvenient for your short-term feelings, you might miss out on an amazing person who just happens to live life differently. Once I started to see miserly behavior as "just another way of life" that some people like and some people don't, it really opened my eyes to many more people around me. In this sense, I think it's very shallow to ask "do they make my life better" (which will almost surely be biased by whatever short term comforts or simple, manageable friendship you want) or "do they make me happy" (sometimes the best thing for us is something that shocks our system, upsets our worldview, challenges us in a non-trivial way, and we might have to endure receiving that in thorny, grumpy packaging). Obviously there is a limit. With my friend, I know that grumpiness is his way of life. He doesn't mean gruff or callous things to be taken as insults, even though most shallow social interaction he has with people, especially if they don't know him, might come off that way. If I thought he sincerely was putting me down or insulting me purely for the sake of inflicting pain or something, then yeah, I would not want that in my life. Overall I guess I am just saying I think it's much more complicated than the heuristic you describe. If I followed that heuristic, it would be a lot like indulging confirmation bias and surrounding myself only with people who reinforce the stuff I already think or do. I might miss out on great relationship where a healthy antagonism is a first-order component of the interaction, and it stretches my boundaries.

s-shellfish 8y ago
I'm very similar, and most of my life I have hidden my more sad, negative side. It makes me feel genuinely better that people like you exist. Because half the reason we are so miserable is because we know we are miserable, it's intricately attached to our identity, decoupling it from all our reasoning to see the brighter side of life isn't a switch that can be instantly flipped, and it requires trust between people who won't judge us for not having the energy to fake a smile when we can't. The power of positive thinking can be destructive if it has been automated. Negative thinking can be the same way - it can be automated, although from my experience, my negative thinking usually helps me see flaws in my own reasoning to such excess that I don't feel I'm at risk for it being automated without being able to reason myself out of whatever is automatic. I'm glad you are thoughtful enough (and that's not meant as a back handed compliment, abstractly positive thinking and negative thinking function the same way, they just interact with different components of self-social systems) to see things in less simplified ways. I have one friend who is like you, and it's constantly a struggle to override my belief system that they are sick of me. But that's the automatic thinking spiral I get stuck in. And I would think most people who are cynical like that think similarly, because that's what we are used to. Emotional vampires, black holes, draining. All those pejoratives affect our self perspective. We don't know how people will judge us. It's nice that people are willing to speak from another perspective. Positive thinking, from when I've experienced it, can feel very group think, like, everything will fall apart if you stop thinking that way. That is such a suppressive ideology to me, it feels dangerous, and I'm not comfortable simply allowing myself to be one directionally convinced into thinking that way. It doesn't take my perspective into account. So in the end, I find, the people who can handle interacting with me and staying positive have very strong minds, both intellectually and emotionally. And they demonstrate that there is a brighter side to life that doesn't imply we're all going to jump off a cliff because it's fun, and not see the ground coming. Sometimes bad things happen in life. It can't all be controlled by attitude. There are real things that happen in life that affect emotions. Forcing oneself to pretend everything is fine is suicidal. I'm not used to being happy. It makes me uncomfortable often. That doesn't mean I fear it. It just means I have to be very careful in experiencing the emotion. Sadness too. Sadness over things that make you sad shouldn't be suppressed, nor should it be attached to people like 'those people made me sad'. That's just going to hurt a person in the long run, because sadness is an awareness. You need sadness to know happiness. Suppressing emotions leads to convoluted reasoning, missed connections, insight and clarity into one's own circumstances, real things. I feel neutral talking to you, but I feel better in general knowing most of humanity isn't on a collision course to remove half of it's emotional reasoning away.

timr 8y ago

This approach also allows for the reality that not all "positive" people are necessarily optimists. There's room for all kinds of valid perspectives in this world, and if you limit yourself to people who are engaged in a constant exercise of blowing rose-scented smoke up your butt (extremely common in the US, particularly places dominated by techno-utopian types...), you're missing out. People who make your life better don't always have to be saying happy things to you. There are few things worse than people who are surrounded with a thick layer of "positive thinkers", who never deliver bad news or critical thinking. It's a fast track to delusion.

extralego 8y ago

It’s quite basic to see where you’re coming from; quite limited to convince yourself it’s sufficient or even consistent. You’re conception overlooks the value in systematic considerations that build-in humility and compassion independent of judgement and measurements of interpersonal compatibility. I’m talking about the basis for some of the most critical elements of a functional society, like morals and other insistutions which defend and bring dignity to people who may be disabled, ugly, foreign, poor, uneducated, etc. Humility and compassion can and must extend beyond your doorstep. This does not require you to be forced with disgust, discomfort, offense or anything of the like. But maybe it requires a basic concern for people as a whole and an appreciation for the deep complexities that bring your experiences to life, and for some people a walk in others shoes seems to be one of the only paths. The idea is “humility and compassion” optimized on a systemic level, and not subject to the whims and follies of individual judgement and interpersonal emotion. This is the justification for morals. Be careful to not mistake morals for fairness, for fairness is subject to the aforementioned weaknesses.

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wizardforhire 8y ago
It’s impossible for me to agree more. Hence why I was cautious to extend the principle to all relationships. Once we look at ourselves we are free to extrapolate about systems greater than ourselves. I felt it prudent to post as the article was fairly basic and yet somehow missed the point. The aforementioned principles which you so aptly describe are part of the foundation by which a solid moral compass may be constructed. That these principles as basic as they are, are not known or employed by more is truly a tragedy. Thank you for your articulate illustration which in its critique provides greater understanding of subtle nuances that, from the looks of how this tread is evolving, will surely be of service to others.
- gollyned 8y ago
  I don't understand your reply, or the comment you're replying to -- if it's not too much trouble, could you rephrase this?

extradego 8y ago

Easy litmus tests to measure a person’s worth stand in a very awkward contrast to your purported “humility and compassion.” Of course, you’re talking about decisions on whether to interpersonally engage and your advice seems fine and good until the last sentence. Let’s be honest: This is a selfish pursuit and “humility and compassion” are the wrong words. Open-minded works so go with that. But look into humility and compassion. Our society is is desperate need of the real thing.

hashkb 8y ago

Sometimes you're depressed or lazy or for whatever reason consistently doing unproductive or annoying things. In this case, good friends might make you feel bad about yourself in the course of helping you improve your life. Not everything can be judged by how it makes you feel.

grasshopperpurp 8y ago
This is an excellent caveat to the OP's post, which is good general advice. In my mid-20s, I was working 3rd shift, and a lot of hours, while my then and current GF was working a lot of hours on 1st shift. We had lived together for 5+ years by this point, but I was extremely discontent with life (as background, we had a great friendship that turned into an amazing relationship before the stress began to take its toll). Through a combination of always feeling like a zombie, feeling disconnected, lack of communication, just generally feeling terrible about life, and her being the closest to me, I became convinced that my unhappiness stemmed from our relationship, rather than my own immaturity meeting and external factors. Probably important to note that during this time I never lost respect, love, or admiration; I just questioned our compatibility. Thankfully, I took time to question my conclusions, and I received some good advice from a good friends. I took some big steps forward in understanding my self and my relationship, changed jobs (no more 3rd shift), and the level of communication shot through the roof. Some years later, I wouldn't say we have a perfect relationship, but it's more perfect than I thought possible. There are still outside stresses, but we're steadying forces in each other's lives. Definitely don't stick around people who make you feel terrible - or any kind of net negative, but many times when we're making these calculations, we're not in our most centered states, so be careful to make sure that the friend in question is the source of displeasure, rather than yourself/external factors.

king_nothing 8y ago

That’s an immature perspective. Actually, that’s not the most important litmus test; it’s whether you trust them completely to make good decisions with your life, kids if present and all your worldly life in their hands should you be incapacitated and that they can keep things together. Being insanely happy or at least content is a bonus.. but their job isn’t to make you happy, that’s your job. Another common antipattern: NRE lasts a year or two, so those new turnips expecting infatuation to sustain things and be “totally perfect” after their giant wedding is also a recipe for disaster.

slx26 8y ago

When you suffer from depression or just have a miserable life that feels like a very cruel and direct rejection from others. I'd suggest to complement that with "can you make the person life better or make the person happier?" I can tell from your comments in this thread that you are exactly the opposite of a mean/cruel person, so this is a good example of what you said yourself: that even trying to be nice with others you might still come across like all the opposite. Of course your point is still equally or more important, as it becomes harder to help others when you can't even make a good life for yourself. But giving can be many times life changing for others.

DoreenMichele 8y ago
Funny, I've done a lot of good for other people while failing to make a good life for myself. Part of that is due to lack of reciprocity: Often, people I did things for didn't do anything for me in exchange, in part due to toxic sexism in many cases.