4 ms·

Wow, I was starting to feel a bit underpaid, but now I'm sure of it. I'm making 72 with 5 years and I think my peers think of my chops highly. I live down sou

by netmau5 16y ago

Wow, I was starting to feel a bit underpaid, but now I'm sure of it. I'm making 72 with 5 years and I think my peers think of my chops highly. I live down south so I'd expect the salaries to be less, but not 50%+. I really need to move to a bigger tech hub.

mathgladiator 16y ago
You should keep in mind the cost of living; everything is relative.
- mathgladiator 16y ago
  For instance, Kansas city versus silicon valley for $100K. http://about.salary.com/costoflivingwizard/layoutscripts/coll_result.asp?presentsalary=100000&presenthomemetrocode=81&presentworkmetrocode=81&newhomemetrocode=156&newworkmetrocode=156&x=59&y=7 http://about.salary.com/costoflivingwizard/layoutscripts/col... So, to live the same quality in silicon valley requires $170K rather than $100K in KC. However, supply and demand is vastly different for tech (see indeed.com).
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
ardit33 16y ago
1. 72k, for 5y experience is not that great, but it is not that bad either, if you live in low coast area. I know in Raleigh NC (a good place to live). you can easily buy a house for 200k-300k, while in SV/SF a similar place would cost at least 700-900k. So, do your math. 2. If you feel are really good, compared to your peers, than you: 1. Might actually be good (then start your own thing). 2. More likely are suffering form the big fish in a small pond syndrome. If you come in the valley, you will find out they you may be just merely average at best. I thought I was really good at some point, but I got "schooled" really fast after moving from Boston to SF. But if you really want to work with the best of the best, come to the valley for few years. You can still go home after it, and have a huge competitive advantage vs. your peers that never left.
- nostrademons 16y ago
  Yeah, I thought I was hot shit in college, thought I was fairly hot shit in my first job after college, then found I was barely average at Google. I think that's a good experience to have, though. If you work with people who're better than you, your natural tendency is to improve, and it's a nice way to disabuse yourself of the programmer's arrogance that so many random coding cowboys have on the Internet.
  - Confusion 16y ago
    If you're average at Google, you probably were hot shit on those previous occasions.
timr 16y ago
Remember: the bay area is a ridiculously expensive place to live. This is an area where a small house in the burbs with a bad commute will start around $600,000. My rent (in a marginal neighborhood in SF) is more than a mortgage payment in most parts of the country. Depending on where you live, $70k may easily match the spending power of 150k in the valley.
- netmau5 16y ago
  I researched living in Seattle for a while, so I definitely know how steep the difference is in cost of living. Sometimes I feel like it is a little overstated though. I think the calculations assume you intend to live there permanently; if you don't, a large investment in a home is irrelevant. I think this factor is what makes it possible for so many to come work on visa for less than a citizen would make: they intend to go back to their lower cost location with money in the bank. Also, as software engineers, the value we create isn't as localized as it is in many other professions. This fact doesn't account for too much, but it also means our salaries shouldn't be linearly bound to cost-of-living. On another note, I'm glad to see demand for developers result in some increased salaries. We've been hearing much about the Google/Facebook recruiting wars in this regard. Salaries dove and stagnated after the last recession, albeit it was a radically different situation in nature.
  - timr 16y ago
    "I researched living in Seattle for a while, so I definitely know how steep the difference is in cost of living. Sometimes I feel like it is a little overstated though." Well, let me put it this way: I lived in Seattle for nearly a decade, and while it was expensive, my rent was less than half of what I'm paying now. I could live in my own apartment on a graduate student stipend (~$30k), and still save a bit each month. There's no way I could do that here. It's tough to overstate the cost of living adjustment that's necessary to move to the bay area. It's insanely expensive.
  - snprbob86 16y ago
    I'm a single guy living in a high-quality studio apartment in Seattle's Capital Hill neighborhood. I eat out often, drink too much beer, and participate in many other costly social/event outings. I've got a car in the garage, insurance(s), and several other expenses for "nice to haves". I spend about $35k/yr. Before quitting, I was making $86k/yr plus benefits/bonus/stock as a new college hire with a strong resume.
blah123 16y ago
Same here (south Texas), been working for 7 years, expertise in both java and .net but making mid 70k. I feel underpaid and thinking about jumping ship too.

by netmau5 16y ago

mathgladiator 16y ago

You should keep in mind the cost of living; everything is relative.

mathgladiator 16y ago
For instance, Kansas city versus silicon valley for $100K. http://about.salary.com/costoflivingwizard/layoutscripts/coll_result.asp?presentsalary=100000&presenthomemetrocode=81&presentworkmetrocode=81&newhomemetrocode=156&newworkmetrocode=156&x=59&y=7 http://about.salary.com/costoflivingwizard/layoutscripts/col... So, to live the same quality in silicon valley requires $170K rather than $100K in KC. However, supply and demand is vastly different for tech (see indeed.com).
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]

ardit33 16y ago

1. 72k, for 5y experience is not that great, but it is not that bad either, if you live in low coast area. I know in Raleigh NC (a good place to live). you can easily buy a house for 200k-300k, while in SV/SF a similar place would cost at least 700-900k. So, do your math. 2. If you feel are really good, compared to your peers, than you: 1. Might actually be good (then start your own thing). 2. More likely are suffering form the big fish in a small pond syndrome. If you come in the valley, you will find out they you may be just merely average at best. I thought I was really good at some point, but I got "schooled" really fast after moving from Boston to SF. But if you really want to work with the best of the best, come to the valley for few years. You can still go home after it, and have a huge competitive advantage vs. your peers that never left.

nostrademons 16y ago
Yeah, I thought I was hot shit in college, thought I was fairly hot shit in my first job after college, then found I was barely average at Google. I think that's a good experience to have, though. If you work with people who're better than you, your natural tendency is to improve, and it's a nice way to disabuse yourself of the programmer's arrogance that so many random coding cowboys have on the Internet.
- Confusion 16y ago
  If you're average at Google, you probably were hot shit on those previous occasions.

timr 16y ago

Remember: the bay area is a ridiculously expensive place to live. This is an area where a small house in the burbs with a bad commute will start around $600,000. My rent (in a marginal neighborhood in SF) is more than a mortgage payment in most parts of the country. Depending on where you live, $70k may easily match the spending power of 150k in the valley.

netmau5 16y ago
I researched living in Seattle for a while, so I definitely know how steep the difference is in cost of living. Sometimes I feel like it is a little overstated though. I think the calculations assume you intend to live there permanently; if you don't, a large investment in a home is irrelevant. I think this factor is what makes it possible for so many to come work on visa for less than a citizen would make: they intend to go back to their lower cost location with money in the bank. Also, as software engineers, the value we create isn't as localized as it is in many other professions. This fact doesn't account for too much, but it also means our salaries shouldn't be linearly bound to cost-of-living. On another note, I'm glad to see demand for developers result in some increased salaries. We've been hearing much about the Google/Facebook recruiting wars in this regard. Salaries dove and stagnated after the last recession, albeit it was a radically different situation in nature.
- timr 16y ago
  "I researched living in Seattle for a while, so I definitely know how steep the difference is in cost of living. Sometimes I feel like it is a little overstated though." Well, let me put it this way: I lived in Seattle for nearly a decade, and while it was expensive, my rent was less than half of what I'm paying now. I could live in my own apartment on a graduate student stipend (~$30k), and still save a bit each month. There's no way I could do that here. It's tough to overstate the cost of living adjustment that's necessary to move to the bay area. It's insanely expensive.
- snprbob86 16y ago
  I'm a single guy living in a high-quality studio apartment in Seattle's Capital Hill neighborhood. I eat out often, drink too much beer, and participate in many other costly social/event outings. I've got a car in the garage, insurance(s), and several other expenses for "nice to haves". I spend about $35k/yr. Before quitting, I was making $86k/yr plus benefits/bonus/stock as a new college hire with a strong resume.

blah123 16y ago

Same here (south Texas), been working for 7 years, expertise in both java and .net but making mid 70k. I feel underpaid and thinking about jumping ship too.