4 ms·

I have a new hypothesis I'm terming "sublimation of criticism." This is likely not original since this isn't my field, but here goes. The campaign to extermina

by api 8y ago

I have a new hypothesis I'm terming "sublimation of criticism." This is likely not original since this isn't my field, but here goes. The campaign to exterminate any alternative political discourse in the West has been so successful that it's now very hard to even talk about any alternative to state corporatist capitalism. This system has many downsides and generates many negative externalities and these are clearly visible to many people, but since the system can't be directly criticized people try to pin its shortcomings on other things like "technology" (an absurdly general term) or thrash around chasing conspiracy ghosts. It's a kind of philosophical scapegoating and fantasizing as a substitute for actual directed criticism. In other words the effectively prohibited criticism of the system sublimes into other areas. Maybe state corporatist capitalism destroys people and places. Try that. I wonder if this phenomenon was common in the late USSR?

c1sc0 8y ago
Why not call it technology like in the article? What would anti-technology look like?
deleted 8y ago
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deleted 8y ago
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andrenth 8y ago
We can unquestionably say that communism has destroyed people and places.
- api 8y ago
  We can also unquestionably say that communism is not the only alternative. For the record I am not an authoritarian communist and I don't think it's a good alternative. I was very specific. I said "state corporatist capitalism" because there are even capitalist alternatives to that such as voluntarist libertarian capitalism and communitarian/co-op oriented capitalism. Our system is one of state-backed corporate capitalism backed by a centrally managed financial system and closely tied to defense and intelligence agencies. It was accurately termed the "military-industrial complex" by Dwight Eisenhower, a communist... err... wait... Eisenhower was a conservative Christian and a Republican. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyBNmecVtdU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyBNmecVtdU Your comment is exactly what I mean. We can't discuss alternatives because there seems to have been some campaign to gerrymander the language and discourse such that any questioning of the official system instantly implies that you're a Leninist or alternately a Hitlerist.
  - andrenth 8y ago
    You wondered about the USSR. I was replying to that.
    - api 8y ago
      My point about the USSR was about how people will often be in denial when the dominant socioeconomic system is displaying severe problems and may be on the brink of failure.
      - andrenth 8y ago
        I see, I misunderstood then.
ShabbosGoy 8y ago
> Maybe state corporatist capitalism destroys people and places. Try that. Hierarchies destroy people and places. The alternative is lack of a hierarchy, which is anarchy. Which are you more comfortable with, typing on your $1000 phone’s keyboard?
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  Humans will always form hierarchies, but it is possible to have more equitable hierarchies where I’m still not beaten to death for my iPhone.
  - ShabbosGoy 8y ago
    What does “equitable hierarchy” mean? Equality of outcome? No thanks. Equality of opportunity? Fine, that’s what we have today.
    - colemannugent 8y ago
      >...that’s what we have today. I agree with everything you said except for this part. We certainly don't have equality of opportunity today. Maybe in small microcosms of the first world countries, but there is a lot more work that needs doing in most of the world.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
golergka 8y ago
> it's now very hard to even talk about any alternative to state corporatist capitalism Have you suffered persecution from the state for discussing such alternatives? Have you been arrested, beaten, your documents confiscated - all for discussing the pros and cons of "state corporatist capitalism"? Have you spent years in camps for it? Because that's what was common in the late USSR. Of course, it was much more civilized than early USSR, when you'd be executed for discussing much more minor things, so that's an improvement.
Analemma_ 8y ago
> it's now very hard to even talk about any alternative to state corporatist capitalism I don't think this is true: Millenials and Gen-Z are increasingly supportive of socialism and sometimes outright communism. The party machinery of the traditional left has been resisting this effort, as you say, but that wall is crumbling and will not last forever; e.g. see the improbable successes of Corbyn, Sanders, etc.
IanDrake 8y ago
>The campaign to exterminate any alternative political discourse in the West has been so successful that it's now very hard to even talk about any alternative I’ve seen no evidence of that and with the severity of your claim should you should include a source or two. Perhaps you’re confusing people disagreeing with your view with people attempting to silence you. Those are two very different things. Recall the Occupy Wall Street protest where they camped out in downtown NYC for a month? They broke all sorts of laws but were allowed to stay. That doesn’t sound like “extermination”. What I do see is violence from communist and anarchists against speech that they deem fascists, but are really just moderate voices. I can provide video links if you need, but it’s common knowledge at this point. We still live in a democracy and so long as we do, you’re going to have to live with consensus, which doesn’t see things your way.
- XorNot 8y ago
  Yes I guess a literal neo-nazi terrorist attack didn't happen on American soil. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally Oh wait it did. And so have numerous ongoing campaigns of harassment and death threats against any dissenting voices. Like this guy: https://www.12news.com/mobile/article/news/local/valley/phoenix-man-posts-photos-of-giving-up-his-guns-gets-death-threats/481212566 https://www.12news.com/mobile/article/news/local/valley/phoe... Even advocated for by the current President of the United States: https://newrepublic.com/minutes/128896/beat-protester-trumps-rally-hell-cover-legal-fees https://newrepublic.com/minutes/128896/beat-protester-trumps...
  - IanDrake 8y ago
    I don’t think an organized group like Antifa promoting “by any means necessary” and getting tacit approval from the main stream left is comparable to one (universally condemned) deranged lunatic, a bunch of keyboard warriors, and something stupid Trump said once. There aren’t right leaning groups out there organizing violent protests at college campuses trying to prevent left leaning speakers from being heard.
  - MatrixAlgebra 8y ago

by api 8y ago

c1sc0 8y ago

Why not call it technology like in the article? What would anti-technology look like?

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

andrenth 8y ago

We can unquestionably say that communism has destroyed people and places.

api 8y ago
We can also unquestionably say that communism is not the only alternative. For the record I am not an authoritarian communist and I don't think it's a good alternative. I was very specific. I said "state corporatist capitalism" because there are even capitalist alternatives to that such as voluntarist libertarian capitalism and communitarian/co-op oriented capitalism. Our system is one of state-backed corporate capitalism backed by a centrally managed financial system and closely tied to defense and intelligence agencies. It was accurately termed the "military-industrial complex" by Dwight Eisenhower, a communist... err... wait... Eisenhower was a conservative Christian and a Republican. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyBNmecVtdU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyBNmecVtdU Your comment is exactly what I mean. We can't discuss alternatives because there seems to have been some campaign to gerrymander the language and discourse such that any questioning of the official system instantly implies that you're a Leninist or alternately a Hitlerist.
- andrenth 8y ago
  You wondered about the USSR. I was replying to that.
  - api 8y ago
    My point about the USSR was about how people will often be in denial when the dominant socioeconomic system is displaying severe problems and may be on the brink of failure.
    - andrenth 8y ago
      I see, I misunderstood then.

ShabbosGoy 8y ago

> Maybe state corporatist capitalism destroys people and places. Try that. Hierarchies destroy people and places. The alternative is lack of a hierarchy, which is anarchy. Which are you more comfortable with, typing on your $1000 phone’s keyboard?

toomuchtodo 8y ago
Humans will always form hierarchies, but it is possible to have more equitable hierarchies where I’m still not beaten to death for my iPhone.
- ShabbosGoy 8y ago
  What does “equitable hierarchy” mean? Equality of outcome? No thanks. Equality of opportunity? Fine, that’s what we have today.
  - colemannugent 8y ago
    >...that’s what we have today. I agree with everything you said except for this part. We certainly don't have equality of opportunity today. Maybe in small microcosms of the first world countries, but there is a lot more work that needs doing in most of the world.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]

golergka 8y ago

> it's now very hard to even talk about any alternative to state corporatist capitalism Have you suffered persecution from the state for discussing such alternatives? Have you been arrested, beaten, your documents confiscated - all for discussing the pros and cons of "state corporatist capitalism"? Have you spent years in camps for it? Because that's what was common in the late USSR. Of course, it was much more civilized than early USSR, when you'd be executed for discussing much more minor things, so that's an improvement.

Analemma_ 8y ago

> it's now very hard to even talk about any alternative to state corporatist capitalism I don't think this is true: Millenials and Gen-Z are increasingly supportive of socialism and sometimes outright communism. The party machinery of the traditional left has been resisting this effort, as you say, but that wall is crumbling and will not last forever; e.g. see the improbable successes of Corbyn, Sanders, etc.

IanDrake 8y ago

>The campaign to exterminate any alternative political discourse in the West has been so successful that it's now very hard to even talk about any alternative I’ve seen no evidence of that and with the severity of your claim should you should include a source or two. Perhaps you’re confusing people disagreeing with your view with people attempting to silence you. Those are two very different things. Recall the Occupy Wall Street protest where they camped out in downtown NYC for a month? They broke all sorts of laws but were allowed to stay. That doesn’t sound like “extermination”. What I do see is violence from communist and anarchists against speech that they deem fascists, but are really just moderate voices. I can provide video links if you need, but it’s common knowledge at this point. We still live in a democracy and so long as we do, you’re going to have to live with consensus, which doesn’t see things your way.

XorNot 8y ago
Yes I guess a literal neo-nazi terrorist attack didn't happen on American soil. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally Oh wait it did. And so have numerous ongoing campaigns of harassment and death threats against any dissenting voices. Like this guy: https://www.12news.com/mobile/article/news/local/valley/phoenix-man-posts-photos-of-giving-up-his-guns-gets-death-threats/481212566 https://www.12news.com/mobile/article/news/local/valley/phoe... Even advocated for by the current President of the United States: https://newrepublic.com/minutes/128896/beat-protester-trumps-rally-hell-cover-legal-fees https://newrepublic.com/minutes/128896/beat-protester-trumps...
- IanDrake 8y ago
  I don’t think an organized group like Antifa promoting “by any means necessary” and getting tacit approval from the main stream left is comparable to one (universally condemned) deranged lunatic, a bunch of keyboard warriors, and something stupid Trump said once. There aren’t right leaning groups out there organizing violent protests at college campuses trying to prevent left leaning speakers from being heard.
- MatrixAlgebra 8y ago