4 ms·

Race does not exist... therefore there won't be a genetic difference in average outcomes between different people groups. It is useful to think of variation fr

Race does not exist... therefore there won't be a genetic difference in average outcomes between different people groups. It is useful to think of variation from person-to-person but it is impossible to make comparisons between ethnic groups/races because no substantive differences exist among the various human populations. Probably the study results you reference are a result of different environments...

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
seanmcdirmid 8y ago
I don’t get what you are trying to claim here. There are well known differences between races (e.g. lactose tolerance) that are minor but medically relevant.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- padobson 8y ago
  I think OP is trying to say something like, "The variance between groups is less than the variance among them"
  - klenwell 8y ago
    And that the racial categories used politically and socially don't always map cleanly to genetic categories used by scientists (thus "75 percent of Pacific Islanders" rather than 100%). But in some (carefully defined) cases they get close.
pokemongoaway 8y ago
Who brainwashed you bro? Are you trying to say ethnicity doesn't exist? There won't be genetic differences (and physical non-genetic differences) between different groups? This is how far leftist propaganda has gone :( EDIT: and typical that I get downvoted without reason for merely suggesting that it is silly to claim that ethnicity doesn't exist (which is how the parent is using the word 'race').
- dang 8y ago
  We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines, despite our requests to stop. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
obviousthowaway 8y ago
Good luck telling Americans Race doesn't exist!
entee 8y ago
Race is often shorthand for ethnicity, and it's true that to a certain extent different ethnic groups have genetic differences of medical relevance. While variation within groups is generally larger than that between groups, that doesn't mean ethnicity is medically useless as data point. Classic examples are among those the OP listed. The most visible are probably lactose tolerance (significantly more common in Europe and cattle-herding populations) and alcohol dehydrogenase (also know as Alcohol Flush Reaction). There are many others and we're likely to find many more. Medically important genetic differences between ethnicities exist, but it's important to note the limits of this analysis. Usually these are fairly low-level traits, i.e. different enzyme activity, and it's critical not not over-extend the logic to more complex emergent traits such as intelligence or others where clean biochemical links are suspect. Saying a certain set of constraints changed the way certain enzymes work in a given population is not the same as saying this group is better than another group.
- jerf 8y ago
  "it's true that to a certain extent different ethnic groups have genetic differences of medical relevance." It's just plain true. "While variation within groups is generally larger than that between groups" That line is for the big traits, like intelligence, strength, etc. Those are made up of many, many genes, and I've even seen a couple of recent articles that suggest the answer to the question "which genes affect intelligence?" may well be "all of them". When it comes to specific genes, though, the incidences can be correlated very strongly to ethnicities/races. If you're having trouble squaring that with your political pieties, bear in mind that it's actually all correlations, not causations. The real cause of the genes an individual has is their literal ancestry (i.e., not their "race" but their exact ancestry, the exact humans and indeed even the exact genes carried by the relevant eggs and sperms), and it isn't that surprising that that correlates strongly with something else that is very tied to ancestry. But really, it's a separate process. There is a de-novo genetic mutation my wife has. She didn't get it from either of her parents. (You know what I mean.) The races of all the individuals involved have nothing to do with the fact that one of our children also has it and one does not. It's sort of important that we not freak out about "races" showing up in medicine; is it more important that people get correct medical treatment and live better lives and at times just plain live even if we can only use a crude tool for a while, or that our particular delicate political beliefs be left unchallenged? I know which I choose.
tathougies 8y ago
This is ridiculous sorry. As an example, thalassemia is common (>20% carrier rate) in South and Southeast asia. Many thalassemia carriers will present as mildly anemic. In asia, the doctors will often test for thalassemia first, because taking iron if you carry thalassemia and have mild anemia as a result, can cause permanent injury. Sometimes, pregnant women are told to take iron, and develop hemochromatosis, which puts both them and the baby at risk of major complications.
aaron695 8y ago
Since commenters so far seem to have missed it there's a ... at the end. Contect here is an obvious /s They are pointing out, you can't accept OP without accepting races also can have different personalities etc something ideologues don't accept.
vancan1ty 8y ago
I meant this comic to be a somewhat tongue-in-cheek parody of positions I have seen people take, which I intended the ellipses to hint at. Clearly there are some genetic differences between populations.
vancan1ty 8y ago
I apologize for not making it clear that I intended this to be a parody illustrating the absurdity of a certain POV when carried to its logical extreme (most POVs are incorrect when carried to an extreme). After further thought, I should have added an /s at the end or better yet not posted at all. My apology for the dishonesty to anyone who took this literally.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

seanmcdirmid 8y ago

I don’t get what you are trying to claim here. There are well known differences between races (e.g. lactose tolerance) that are minor but medically relevant.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
padobson 8y ago
I think OP is trying to say something like, "The variance between groups is less than the variance among them"
- klenwell 8y ago
  And that the racial categories used politically and socially don't always map cleanly to genetic categories used by scientists (thus "75 percent of Pacific Islanders" rather than 100%). But in some (carefully defined) cases they get close.

pokemongoaway 8y ago

Who brainwashed you bro? Are you trying to say ethnicity doesn't exist? There won't be genetic differences (and physical non-genetic differences) between different groups? This is how far leftist propaganda has gone :( EDIT: and typical that I get downvoted without reason for merely suggesting that it is silly to claim that ethnicity doesn't exist (which is how the parent is using the word 'race').

dang 8y ago
We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines, despite our requests to stop. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

obviousthowaway 8y ago

Good luck telling Americans Race doesn't exist!

entee 8y ago

Race is often shorthand for ethnicity, and it's true that to a certain extent different ethnic groups have genetic differences of medical relevance. While variation within groups is generally larger than that between groups, that doesn't mean ethnicity is medically useless as data point. Classic examples are among those the OP listed. The most visible are probably lactose tolerance (significantly more common in Europe and cattle-herding populations) and alcohol dehydrogenase (also know as Alcohol Flush Reaction). There are many others and we're likely to find many more. Medically important genetic differences between ethnicities exist, but it's important to note the limits of this analysis. Usually these are fairly low-level traits, i.e. different enzyme activity, and it's critical not not over-extend the logic to more complex emergent traits such as intelligence or others where clean biochemical links are suspect. Saying a certain set of constraints changed the way certain enzymes work in a given population is not the same as saying this group is better than another group.

jerf 8y ago
"it's true that to a certain extent different ethnic groups have genetic differences of medical relevance." It's just plain true. "While variation within groups is generally larger than that between groups" That line is for the big traits, like intelligence, strength, etc. Those are made up of many, many genes, and I've even seen a couple of recent articles that suggest the answer to the question "which genes affect intelligence?" may well be "all of them". When it comes to specific genes, though, the incidences can be correlated very strongly to ethnicities/races. If you're having trouble squaring that with your political pieties, bear in mind that it's actually all correlations, not causations. The real cause of the genes an individual has is their literal ancestry (i.e., not their "race" but their exact ancestry, the exact humans and indeed even the exact genes carried by the relevant eggs and sperms), and it isn't that surprising that that correlates strongly with something else that is very tied to ancestry. But really, it's a separate process. There is a de-novo genetic mutation my wife has. She didn't get it from either of her parents. (You know what I mean.) The races of all the individuals involved have nothing to do with the fact that one of our children also has it and one does not. It's sort of important that we not freak out about "races" showing up in medicine; is it more important that people get correct medical treatment and live better lives and at times just plain live even if we can only use a crude tool for a while, or that our particular delicate political beliefs be left unchallenged? I know which I choose.

tathougies 8y ago

This is ridiculous sorry. As an example, thalassemia is common (>20% carrier rate) in South and Southeast asia. Many thalassemia carriers will present as mildly anemic. In asia, the doctors will often test for thalassemia first, because taking iron if you carry thalassemia and have mild anemia as a result, can cause permanent injury. Sometimes, pregnant women are told to take iron, and develop hemochromatosis, which puts both them and the baby at risk of major complications.

aaron695 8y ago

Since commenters so far seem to have missed it there's a ... at the end. Contect here is an obvious /s They are pointing out, you can't accept OP without accepting races also can have different personalities etc something ideologues don't accept.

vancan1ty 8y ago

I meant this comic to be a somewhat tongue-in-cheek parody of positions I have seen people take, which I intended the ellipses to hint at. Clearly there are some genetic differences between populations.

vancan1ty 8y ago

I apologize for not making it clear that I intended this to be a parody illustrating the absurdity of a certain POV when carried to its logical extreme (most POVs are incorrect when carried to an extreme). After further thought, I should have added an /s at the end or better yet not posted at all. My apology for the dishonesty to anyone who took this literally.