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I wouldn't. I'd learn a trade. Not to be facetious, I'm serious. I love programming. I never played video games, I spent my free time learning basic and then as

I wouldn't. I'd learn a trade. Not to be facetious, I'm serious. I love programming. I never played video games, I spent my free time learning basic and then assembler in the late 80's. At the time, I was custom cabinet maker. I eventually become allergic to the 'smell' in oak, causing health problems. I had to give it up. I was busy 8 hours a day. I made decent money. Theirs a certain satisfaction at the end of the day and being able to point at something physical and say 'A good days work'. I began contract programming and eventually into full time employment. Flash forward about 30 years. I'm still writing code professionally. I rarely write code for just enjoyment anymore. Those carpenters, cabinet makers, plumbers, electricians.. .trades people, make the same or more than I do. Their unionized. They can work practically anywhere and make the same amount of money. Not just in major cities. It doesn't see many radical shifts in technologies, unlike programming that is a life long learning because of advancing tech. Its VERY likely you will find your skill set obsolete without a real concerted effort of constantly upgrading. I wont even get into the culture which IMO is fostered by those writing the cheques and even your peers. Nor the moral issues that you will inevitably face - something few programmers ever talk about. It's a real kick in the happiness meter when something you write is designed solely to put many people out of work. My opinion, my real opinion, is that if you find yourself writing code 'for fun' even if you don't know what your doing, pursue it. If your only in it for the career. Turn and run like hell. You'll be burnt out in 5 years and starting over.

mieseratte 8y ago
> My opinion, my real opinion, is that if you find yourself writing code 'for fun' even if you don't know what your doing, pursue it. The dirty secret of turning your hobby into a career is that there exists a very real chance you will kill your hobby and passion for the craft. Unfortunately, one can only deal with some much half-assed code and coworkers before turning into a cynic who hates the craft. I almost wish I was just in it for the money, for this reason.
- marcosdumay 8y ago
  The dirtier secret is that if you turn something you dislike into a career, you won't get even the small consolation of liking it, and all the other problems will not go away.
  - mieseratte 8y ago
    > something you dislike There's a continuum between "turning a like into career" and "turning a dislike into career" wherein I think there's probably a good balance. Indifference, much like ignorance, seems to be bliss among many folks in my line of work. Especially when you've got someone passionate to pick up the slack.
big_youth 8y ago
The grass is always greener. I grew up in a working class neighborhood where the majority of my friends parents and high school friends later became involved in trades. My high school had a trades program for mechanics, HVAC, electricians, plumbing, and a beauty school. The vast majority are NOT making six figures. The work is hard, has long hours, and is physically exhausting. My grandpa was a welder/machine shop owner my uncle is a electrician. They would trade anything for a cushy desk job with great pay, great benefits and easy workload. I've never worked past 4pm and have ample paid vacation time. They will never be able to say that. Google says that here in Austin TX, the average master plumber makes $25 an hr. HVAC is the highest at $44 an hour on average. And we are going through a construction boom, also don't forget that you have to factor working in 100 degree heat and 50% humidity 5 months out of the year. Sure you can start a business and eventually have 5 workers and 3 trucks like my grandpa but then you become a entrepreneur and have to deal with the whole billing, scheduling, selling, headaches of running a small business. I find a lot of tech people idolize the blue collar fields. It's damn hard work.
- bungie4 8y ago
  Just for a point of reference, I've been a Cabinet Maker, Welder, Powder Coater, Skid nailer, punch press operator and more. Believe me, I understand blue collar. I was in my 30's before I worked professionally as a programmer. I currently live in a town that is resource based, mining and forestry. The epitome of blue-collar. Believe me, those guys make double what I do with bonuses and benefits. Even without, they make significantly more than I do. It isn't uncommon for a worker in this town to be able to retire by 45. They work until they are offered early retirement, or, have their pensions bought out. All this with very little education beyond 'common-core' in the mining sector. Ya, they bust their asses. But they're paid for it. So, ya, you raise valid points, but I'll stick with my first hand experience. Have you ever worked blue-collar or just second had info as you present.
  - aplummer 8y ago
    > They can work practically anywhere and make the same amount of money You are contradicting yourself by saying you’re in a boom town and also they can move anywhere. (Can they move to Thailand? I can move to Thailand as a programmer). In a mine in Australia you can make 6 figures standing at a gate and letting trucks through, or higher to drive the truck, but it’s specific. I think their mobility would definitely be worse that a programmers. > I'll stick with my first hand experience. Have you ever worked blue-collar or just second had info as you present. I don’t think anecdotes are a good example here. Something like https://data.gov.au/dataset/taxation-statistics-2013-14/resource/c506c052-be2f-4fba-8a65-90f9e60f7775 https://data.gov.au/dataset/taxation-statistics-2013-14/reso... would be better.
RickJWagner 8y ago
Where I live, programmers make far more than cabinet makers and electricians.
felix_nagaand 8y ago
You view of trades work is romanticized. The labor is grueling for 90% of the bodies on any given site. Some days you can sit in your truck and play on your phone for 8-20 hours until you get sent back to the roach motel with 2-3 other guys to come back in 8-12 hours to do it again. Other days it's 100F, and you're standing on asphalt or concrete all day boiling in your sweat rushing through a month of labor in a couple weeks to meet the deadline. You're only rushing after two weeks of sitting on your hands because the paperwork got messed up and that precisely ordered $10k of sheeting, or brick, or wire isn't the right color so the entire plan needs to be recertified. The culture is toxic. The labor will break your body and if you don't get addicted to heroin to make it through your day you're probably an alcoholic and are probably a smoker. The guys who are making 100k+ are site engineers, masters on jobs they're there to fix, or are honestly overpaid. Most masters I know are 60-90k and would love to have a job cushy enough to sit around and complain about on the internet during the work day.
- abledon 8y ago
  Much needed reply to the parent.

mieseratte 8y ago

> My opinion, my real opinion, is that if you find yourself writing code 'for fun' even if you don't know what your doing, pursue it. The dirty secret of turning your hobby into a career is that there exists a very real chance you will kill your hobby and passion for the craft. Unfortunately, one can only deal with some much half-assed code and coworkers before turning into a cynic who hates the craft. I almost wish I was just in it for the money, for this reason.

marcosdumay 8y ago
The dirtier secret is that if you turn something you dislike into a career, you won't get even the small consolation of liking it, and all the other problems will not go away.
- mieseratte 8y ago
  > something you dislike There's a continuum between "turning a like into career" and "turning a dislike into career" wherein I think there's probably a good balance. Indifference, much like ignorance, seems to be bliss among many folks in my line of work. Especially when you've got someone passionate to pick up the slack.

big_youth 8y ago

The grass is always greener. I grew up in a working class neighborhood where the majority of my friends parents and high school friends later became involved in trades. My high school had a trades program for mechanics, HVAC, electricians, plumbing, and a beauty school. The vast majority are NOT making six figures. The work is hard, has long hours, and is physically exhausting. My grandpa was a welder/machine shop owner my uncle is a electrician. They would trade anything for a cushy desk job with great pay, great benefits and easy workload. I've never worked past 4pm and have ample paid vacation time. They will never be able to say that. Google says that here in Austin TX, the average master plumber makes $25 an hr. HVAC is the highest at $44 an hour on average. And we are going through a construction boom, also don't forget that you have to factor working in 100 degree heat and 50% humidity 5 months out of the year. Sure you can start a business and eventually have 5 workers and 3 trucks like my grandpa but then you become a entrepreneur and have to deal with the whole billing, scheduling, selling, headaches of running a small business. I find a lot of tech people idolize the blue collar fields. It's damn hard work.

bungie4 8y ago
Just for a point of reference, I've been a Cabinet Maker, Welder, Powder Coater, Skid nailer, punch press operator and more. Believe me, I understand blue collar. I was in my 30's before I worked professionally as a programmer. I currently live in a town that is resource based, mining and forestry. The epitome of blue-collar. Believe me, those guys make double what I do with bonuses and benefits. Even without, they make significantly more than I do. It isn't uncommon for a worker in this town to be able to retire by 45. They work until they are offered early retirement, or, have their pensions bought out. All this with very little education beyond 'common-core' in the mining sector. Ya, they bust their asses. But they're paid for it. So, ya, you raise valid points, but I'll stick with my first hand experience. Have you ever worked blue-collar or just second had info as you present.
- aplummer 8y ago
  > They can work practically anywhere and make the same amount of money You are contradicting yourself by saying you’re in a boom town and also they can move anywhere. (Can they move to Thailand? I can move to Thailand as a programmer). In a mine in Australia you can make 6 figures standing at a gate and letting trucks through, or higher to drive the truck, but it’s specific. I think their mobility would definitely be worse that a programmers. > I'll stick with my first hand experience. Have you ever worked blue-collar or just second had info as you present. I don’t think anecdotes are a good example here. Something like https://data.gov.au/dataset/taxation-statistics-2013-14/resource/c506c052-be2f-4fba-8a65-90f9e60f7775 https://data.gov.au/dataset/taxation-statistics-2013-14/reso... would be better.

RickJWagner 8y ago

Where I live, programmers make far more than cabinet makers and electricians.

felix_nagaand 8y ago

You view of trades work is romanticized. The labor is grueling for 90% of the bodies on any given site. Some days you can sit in your truck and play on your phone for 8-20 hours until you get sent back to the roach motel with 2-3 other guys to come back in 8-12 hours to do it again. Other days it's 100F, and you're standing on asphalt or concrete all day boiling in your sweat rushing through a month of labor in a couple weeks to meet the deadline. You're only rushing after two weeks of sitting on your hands because the paperwork got messed up and that precisely ordered $10k of sheeting, or brick, or wire isn't the right color so the entire plan needs to be recertified. The culture is toxic. The labor will break your body and if you don't get addicted to heroin to make it through your day you're probably an alcoholic and are probably a smoker. The guys who are making 100k+ are site engineers, masters on jobs they're there to fix, or are honestly overpaid. Most masters I know are 60-90k and would love to have a job cushy enough to sit around and complain about on the internet during the work day.

abledon 8y ago
Much needed reply to the parent.