8 ms·

I'd use Vim from day 1, instead of wasting time with several IDEs.

dboreham 8y ago
Spaces! No tabs.
cup-of-tea 8y ago
The real advice is try different tools rather than sticking with the first one you try or were told to use. When you find the one for you you'll know. Also remember you can make your own tools. Don't struggle with crap tools and find a way to make it easy to develop your tool kit.
- omidmnzadeh 8y ago
  It's been a long time I haven't used Vim. I left it in favor of Evil+Emacs a few years ago. And I don't recommend it to every single person I see. The phrase "wasting time with Vim" was the thing that made me reply the way I did. Learning Vim properly has helped me every single step of my way.
  - hguhghuff 8y ago
    So you don’t use vim as a programming environment/editor? So not actually disagreeing with me, just stirring?
    - omidmnzadeh 8y ago
      "Vim"? No. I don't use it anymore. The "Vim's Way"? I use it everyday!
    - gkya 8y ago
      Evil is a Vim implementation in Elisp, basically.
arethuza 8y ago
And I'd learn to use the tools that were most appropriate to the environment I was working in and not spend so much time 'optimizing' my own workflow for relatively small gains in productivity.
- gkya 8y ago
  Except 11 out of 10 such tools come as a command line tool that has to be integrated to your IDE, often by someone else.
hguhghuff 8y ago
Why would anyone not want the power of an ide? Is it a Unix tough guy thing where there’s nothing that a GUI app does that you can’t do better in a terminal? Or is it that you’ve never really spent a lot of time in a professional ide so when you argue against it, it’s cause you don’t know?
- omidmnzadeh 8y ago
  I've used several IDEs before. I used one when Eclipse was the go-to option. Then all the attention went to IntelliJ. But none of them gave me what my Emacs+Evil setup gave me, while the Emacs side got "almost" everything they gave me.
- Theodores 8y ago
  Probably this. IDE developers listen to users and they do build in those features that make vim better than Notepad. Same with grep and anything else command line excellent. I think it is best not to think one or the other but use both. iDEs work on Linux and have a terminal window built in. So that is how to do it, vim keyboard bindings too.
  - VonGallifrey 8y ago
    Vim keyboard bindings offer nowhere near the capabilities of a real Vim. They only offer the basics and never advanced vim features. Vim is so much more then just keybindings, it is more of a text manipulation language. There is only one exception to that and that is Emacs Evil mode. The other way around is much more likely: Vim plugins offer all those IDE features and integrate them seamless into vim and its way of manipulating text. Honestly, after learning and modifying vim for myself I found IDEs to be limited, bloated and slow.
    - Theodores 8y ago
      I thought the same until recently and found the underlying java nonsense of an IDE to be slow, forever indexing. But due to work I had to use an IDE. Much to my surprise it was not slow. Plus I learn from it. I like the code errors showing and I like learning new things from the auto complete. I also like the plugins for database and Redis stores. Plus debugging is great. Give it a go and avoid modding down those that wish to share their experiences!

Spaces! No tabs.

The real advice is try different tools rather than sticking with the first one you try or were told to use. When you find the one for you you'll know. Also remember you can make your own tools. Don't struggle with crap tools and find a way to make it easy to develop your tool kit.

omidmnzadeh 8y ago
It's been a long time I haven't used Vim. I left it in favor of Evil+Emacs a few years ago. And I don't recommend it to every single person I see. The phrase "wasting time with Vim" was the thing that made me reply the way I did. Learning Vim properly has helped me every single step of my way.
- hguhghuff 8y ago
  So you don’t use vim as a programming environment/editor? So not actually disagreeing with me, just stirring?
  - omidmnzadeh 8y ago
    "Vim"? No. I don't use it anymore. The "Vim's Way"? I use it everyday!
  - gkya 8y ago
    Evil is a Vim implementation in Elisp, basically.

arethuza 8y ago

And I'd learn to use the tools that were most appropriate to the environment I was working in and not spend so much time 'optimizing' my own workflow for relatively small gains in productivity.

gkya 8y ago
Except 11 out of 10 such tools come as a command line tool that has to be integrated to your IDE, often by someone else.

hguhghuff 8y ago

Why would anyone not want the power of an ide? Is it a Unix tough guy thing where there’s nothing that a GUI app does that you can’t do better in a terminal? Or is it that you’ve never really spent a lot of time in a professional ide so when you argue against it, it’s cause you don’t know?

omidmnzadeh 8y ago
I've used several IDEs before. I used one when Eclipse was the go-to option. Then all the attention went to IntelliJ. But none of them gave me what my Emacs+Evil setup gave me, while the Emacs side got "almost" everything they gave me.
Theodores 8y ago
Probably this. IDE developers listen to users and they do build in those features that make vim better than Notepad. Same with grep and anything else command line excellent. I think it is best not to think one or the other but use both. iDEs work on Linux and have a terminal window built in. So that is how to do it, vim keyboard bindings too.
- VonGallifrey 8y ago
  Vim keyboard bindings offer nowhere near the capabilities of a real Vim. They only offer the basics and never advanced vim features. Vim is so much more then just keybindings, it is more of a text manipulation language. There is only one exception to that and that is Emacs Evil mode. The other way around is much more likely: Vim plugins offer all those IDE features and integrate them seamless into vim and its way of manipulating text. Honestly, after learning and modifying vim for myself I found IDEs to be limited, bloated and slow.
  - Theodores 8y ago
    I thought the same until recently and found the underlying java nonsense of an IDE to be slow, forever indexing. But due to work I had to use an IDE. Much to my surprise it was not slow. Plus I learn from it. I like the code errors showing and I like learning new things from the auto complete. I also like the plugins for database and Redis stores. Plus debugging is great. Give it a go and avoid modding down those that wish to share their experiences!