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I really don't get why the West is gifting all this technology to a competitor. By now it should be clear that in all cases of these joint ventures the only goa

I really don't get why the West is gifting all this technology to a competitor. By now it should be clear that in all cases of these joint ventures the only goal is to eventually clone the product. They have ripoffs of high-speed trains, military equipment and so on. I guess this is also how Japan caught up after WWII, but there the US has still ~60000 soldiers on the ground and significant long term ties.

poutrathor 8y ago
From a non US citizens point of view, getting spied on by the giant uncle Sam or by Xi's China makes less and less difference if the current trends keep on : USA retracting on nationalistic beliefs while China keeps opening up.
- tanilama 8y ago
  Blackmail by Xi or by Trump, it is now a choice to make. Can't imagine this like 2 years ago. Funny time to live indeed.
  - zeofig 8y ago
    Give them conflicting information, so when they amalgamate Moloch will be left confused.
  - rakoo 8y ago
    As another non-US citizen, I can tell you this sentiment definitely didn't start with Trump.
- realusername 8y ago
  > USA retracting on nationalistic beliefs while China keeps opening up. I don't see how China is opening up, the situation is even worse than 10 years ago, we used to have an oligarchy of the CCP, now we have a proper dictator instead. People hoped that China would open up while modernising, so far it has not worked at all.
  - javajosh 8y ago
    Taking the devils advocate position, the intuition is that a) lots of money (and lots of middle class money, in particular) combined with b) western culture (movies, games, software) will "open up" China. Of course, I think this is a silly idea. One proof is how the west seems to be closing up - which implies that money and culture is not such a strong force for "opening up". The thing about China that must change is the nature of power, which remains firmly in the hands of the Communist Party, which is independent of the elected leader. As long as they retain real power, China degenerates into a nation ruled by people not a nation ruled by law. No, the force that makes a nation "open up" is a culture that invites dissenting voices, and speaks up, loudly, when dissent is stifled anywhere, at home or abroad. We can say, at least until recently, that one of our most unique and valuable qualities was this extreme position on dissent, to not just tolerate it, but encourage it. To open up peacefully, the Communist Party must itself open up to dissent, encourage it within itself, and allow a new, opposition party to establish itself. But I digress.
    - oblio 8y ago
      You don't need a middle class, you 2-3 generations of middle class. The former dirt farmer turned CEO or medic won't speak up. Poverty and penury are etched into his brain. The kids used to have enough all their love will be the ones rebelling. The alternative is that everyone starves and you get revolutions, but fewer and fewer people are starving in China and thus the government is legitimized.
  - glenndebacker 8y ago
    "People hoped that China would open up while modernising, so far it has not worked at all." The same can be said of the US these days. It seems to go backwards for some strange reason.
    - tonyedgecombe 8y ago
      The US is still Democratic, you may not like Trump but enough people did.
some_account 8y ago
You say ripoff, but its more like improvements of products. Everybody steals ideas from everybody, thats how it works. Otherwise cars would only exist in the US. Japan was winning that war until US dropped the atomic bombs and killed a lot of innocent people. Im not sure how that is something to be proud of.
- antt 8y ago
  >Japan was winning that war until US dropped the atomic bombs and killed a lot of innocent people. That's some odd definition of winning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_1rzp2YVxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_1rzp2YVxQ
- abrichr 8y ago
  > Japan was winning that war until US dropped the atomic bombs Got a source? I’m on mobile so it’s difficult to provide links, but a quick Google search seems to disagree.
  - olavk 8y ago
    It is bullshit. At the time of the bombs it had long been clear that Japan was losing. The only question was how drawn-out the end game would be.
- older 8y ago
  > Otherwise cars would only exist in the US. In France or in Germany: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_automobile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_automobile
- glenndebacker 8y ago
  I don't know how you are modded down because the irony is that the whole situation is historical speaking very hypocritical. Was it not for Samuel Slater that "stole" British inventions without regards for patents and improved further on them, he would not be regarded as "the father of the American Industrial Revolution".
- oblio 8y ago
tim333 8y ago
The thing is "the West" doesn't control individual companies and AMD did it for "a much needed $293 million cash infusion." Whether this is a good thing in general is debatable. As someone without ownership in AMD/INTC or the Chinese companies it doesn't matter much to me where my gadgets are made and I'm glad the Chinese are prosperous - I was there in the 80s and it was pretty grim then. On the other hand it boosts the military strength of what is something of a pushy big brother style dictatorship.
- tooltalk 8y ago
  ?? I thought the company was doing well and in no dire need for cash -- thx in part to the late crypto boom. The company's stock jumped x4 from 2016, two years ago.
  - spacenick88 8y ago
    The deal was made several years ago, they are just starting production now
justinjlynn 8y ago
There is no east, there is no west. There are now only transnational corporate interests which view nation states as geographic monopolies to be both exploited and transcended.
- lr4444lr 8y ago
  Been meddling with the primary forces of nature again, Mr. Beale?
  - justinjlynn 8y ago
    Well, I suppose the phrasing is a touch melodramatic.

poutrathor 8y ago

From a non US citizens point of view, getting spied on by the giant uncle Sam or by Xi's China makes less and less difference if the current trends keep on : USA retracting on nationalistic beliefs while China keeps opening up.

tanilama 8y ago
Blackmail by Xi or by Trump, it is now a choice to make. Can't imagine this like 2 years ago. Funny time to live indeed.
- zeofig 8y ago
  Give them conflicting information, so when they amalgamate Moloch will be left confused.
- rakoo 8y ago
  As another non-US citizen, I can tell you this sentiment definitely didn't start with Trump.
realusername 8y ago
> USA retracting on nationalistic beliefs while China keeps opening up. I don't see how China is opening up, the situation is even worse than 10 years ago, we used to have an oligarchy of the CCP, now we have a proper dictator instead. People hoped that China would open up while modernising, so far it has not worked at all.
- javajosh 8y ago
  Taking the devils advocate position, the intuition is that a) lots of money (and lots of middle class money, in particular) combined with b) western culture (movies, games, software) will "open up" China. Of course, I think this is a silly idea. One proof is how the west seems to be closing up - which implies that money and culture is not such a strong force for "opening up". The thing about China that must change is the nature of power, which remains firmly in the hands of the Communist Party, which is independent of the elected leader. As long as they retain real power, China degenerates into a nation ruled by people not a nation ruled by law. No, the force that makes a nation "open up" is a culture that invites dissenting voices, and speaks up, loudly, when dissent is stifled anywhere, at home or abroad. We can say, at least until recently, that one of our most unique and valuable qualities was this extreme position on dissent, to not just tolerate it, but encourage it. To open up peacefully, the Communist Party must itself open up to dissent, encourage it within itself, and allow a new, opposition party to establish itself. But I digress.
  - oblio 8y ago
    You don't need a middle class, you 2-3 generations of middle class. The former dirt farmer turned CEO or medic won't speak up. Poverty and penury are etched into his brain. The kids used to have enough all their love will be the ones rebelling. The alternative is that everyone starves and you get revolutions, but fewer and fewer people are starving in China and thus the government is legitimized.
- glenndebacker 8y ago
  "People hoped that China would open up while modernising, so far it has not worked at all." The same can be said of the US these days. It seems to go backwards for some strange reason.
  - tonyedgecombe 8y ago
    The US is still Democratic, you may not like Trump but enough people did.

some_account 8y ago

You say ripoff, but its more like improvements of products. Everybody steals ideas from everybody, thats how it works. Otherwise cars would only exist in the US. Japan was winning that war until US dropped the atomic bombs and killed a lot of innocent people. Im not sure how that is something to be proud of.

antt 8y ago
>Japan was winning that war until US dropped the atomic bombs and killed a lot of innocent people. That's some odd definition of winning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_1rzp2YVxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_1rzp2YVxQ
abrichr 8y ago
> Japan was winning that war until US dropped the atomic bombs Got a source? I’m on mobile so it’s difficult to provide links, but a quick Google search seems to disagree.
- olavk 8y ago
  It is bullshit. At the time of the bombs it had long been clear that Japan was losing. The only question was how drawn-out the end game would be.
older 8y ago
> Otherwise cars would only exist in the US. In France or in Germany: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_automobile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_automobile
glenndebacker 8y ago
I don't know how you are modded down because the irony is that the whole situation is historical speaking very hypocritical. Was it not for Samuel Slater that "stole" British inventions without regards for patents and improved further on them, he would not be regarded as "the father of the American Industrial Revolution".
oblio 8y ago

tim333 8y ago

The thing is "the West" doesn't control individual companies and AMD did it for "a much needed $293 million cash infusion." Whether this is a good thing in general is debatable. As someone without ownership in AMD/INTC or the Chinese companies it doesn't matter much to me where my gadgets are made and I'm glad the Chinese are prosperous - I was there in the 80s and it was pretty grim then. On the other hand it boosts the military strength of what is something of a pushy big brother style dictatorship.

tooltalk 8y ago
?? I thought the company was doing well and in no dire need for cash -- thx in part to the late crypto boom. The company's stock jumped x4 from 2016, two years ago.
- spacenick88 8y ago
  The deal was made several years ago, they are just starting production now

justinjlynn 8y ago

There is no east, there is no west. There are now only transnational corporate interests which view nation states as geographic monopolies to be both exploited and transcended.

lr4444lr 8y ago
Been meddling with the primary forces of nature again, Mr. Beale?
- justinjlynn 8y ago
  Well, I suppose the phrasing is a touch melodramatic.