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Voting requires ID in almost every other western democracy, including Canada. The rest of the world see it as very reasonable to identify yourself at a polling

Voting requires ID in almost every other western democracy, including Canada. The rest of the world see it as very reasonable to identify yourself at a polling station. It's odd that this is so contentious in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws

s2g 8y ago
mostly cause the laws get abused to target mostly democrat voters.
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  Likewise, Democrats turn a blind eye towards voting id because they benefit from non eligible voterw voting, because they usually vite Democrat. There, I've made my point and provided as much evidence as you have towards your point
  - tzs 8y ago
    > There, I've made my point and provided as much evidence as you have towards your point The difference between your point and his point is that he could easily provide evidence for his, since there have been numerous lawsuits over these laws by civil rights groups, and the evidence was well publicized in those cases, and there have also been academic studies of these laws. Some links: [1] [2] [3]. There are ineligible people who vote, but almost all of them do so by means that would not be stopped by voter ID laws, most commonly absentee ballots. This makes it very hard to find evidence that supports you points. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/how-voter-id-laws-discriminate-study/517218/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/how-vot... [2] https://now.tufts.edu/articles/proving-voter-id-law-s-discriminating-intent https://now.tufts.edu/articles/proving-voter-id-law-s-discri... [3] https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-...
MatrixAlgebra 8y ago
ID requirements make a tremendous amount of sense. Fear of those laws repressing certain groups should just incentivize watchdogs and protections ensuring that repressive regulations are not passed. Seriously, just because a good law could be abused does not mean we should avoid enacting such a law. That sort of thinking would seriously restrict our legal system if it was applied in all cases.
rectang 8y ago
IDs are not issued automatically in the US; they take money and effort to acquire. Therefore as implemented in the US, voter IDs are a poll tax. Unsurprisingly, this makes voter ID a political issue: those who benefit from poll taxes support them, and those whose voters are suppressed by poll taxes oppose them.
- mikejholly 8y ago
  You also need to wear clothes and shoes into the polling station. Are those expenses considered poll taxes as well? Straw man, but requiring ID is not really a direct poll tax. I certainly don't feel like I'm being unreasonably taxed when I vote with my ID.
  - slg 8y ago
    You are thinking of this as a person who already has a government issued ID. If you don't drive and don't travel internationally there isn't much in life that would require you go acquire a government issued ID. If the only reason you need the ID is to vote, many people who don't already have an ID won't vote.
    - mikejholly 8y ago
      This argument seems like grasping me to. How would one function in society at all without an ID? Opening a bank account, cashing a check, driving a car, visiting a doctor, taking a train or plane, going to court. These are all activities which require ID. Sure, there is a tiny fraction of people who can't engage in those activities. But how likely is it that those folks are going to be voting, anyhow? I found this video pretty funny while searching around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxZGWCdgs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxZGWCdgs
      - erik_seaberg 8y ago
        Employers are legally required to check ID. Not sure about landlords or hotels but nearly all of them seem to.
ttctciyf 8y ago
> Voting requires ID in almost every other western democracy Not in the UK. [1] > Do I need to take ID to the polling station? > You do not need to show ID to vote in England, Scotland and Wales. You just need to tell polling staff your name and address. They will then cross your name off the list and give you a ballot paper. There were trials of a voter id system recently, but it is widely regarded as "a solution in search of a problem" and a way of suppressing the vote of the economically disadvantaged, the natural opponents of the ruling right wing Tory party[2] 1: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/07/how-do-i-vote-in-the-uk-general-election https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/07/how-do-i-vo... 2: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/29/england-voter-id-trial-discrimination-fears-electoral-fraud https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/29/england-vot...
nitwit005 8y ago
Looking at the description of Canada, it looks similar to how the US has worked. The general thing people have wanted to avoid is an extra burden that burdens poor voters. Either an ID that costs money (poll taxes are banned in many countries, so this is always a little dubious), or that simply requires going to a distant or understaffed facility to get the ID. The only reason it's a political issue at all is because the Republican party has been rather openly seeking these negative effects to their electoral benefit: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-acknowledge-leveraging-voter-id-laws-for-political-gain.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-ackno...
Fej 8y ago
Almost every other Western democracy also has national ID cards, which the United States does not. It sounds like a good idea in theory, but in practice - specifically in the United States - requiring ID for registered voters at the polling station is used by the Republican Party for the sole purpose of disenfranchising Democratic voters.
0xcde4c3db 8y ago
Government-issued ID in general has a long history of being contentious in the US, and is consequently a complete goddamn mess. As a country, we really aren't in the habit of setting things up with the assumption that every citizen has an official ID. So not requring ID to vote looks strange compared to other countries, but not compared to how we treat ID generally in the US.
cmurf 8y ago
What's contentious is the versions used by Republicans: make the required ID a kind of ID you can only obtain in certain locations, and then close most all of those locations in predominately black counties, or make the ID expensive or obscure or difficult to obtain for working folks. And even when it isn't racist, it's very clearly there to preserve GOP majorities: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/outlook/article/Voter-ID-isn-t-racist-it-there-to-protect-12890005.php https://www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/outlook/article/Vot... https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2016/0730/Voter-ID-movement-stumbles-in-courts-as-judges-ID-racism https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2016/0730/Voter-ID-mo... By all means make voter ID required, just make sure the burden for obtaining it is identical across all demographics.
specialist 8y ago
The USA also has the separate hurdle of registering to vote. Administered by the States. YMMV. No one would object to voter ID requirements if it wasn't weaponized to disenfranchise voters. The fix is automatic, universal voter registration. Just like every other mature democracy.

s2g 8y ago

mostly cause the laws get abused to target mostly democrat voters.

oh_sigh 8y ago
Likewise, Democrats turn a blind eye towards voting id because they benefit from non eligible voterw voting, because they usually vite Democrat. There, I've made my point and provided as much evidence as you have towards your point
- tzs 8y ago
  > There, I've made my point and provided as much evidence as you have towards your point The difference between your point and his point is that he could easily provide evidence for his, since there have been numerous lawsuits over these laws by civil rights groups, and the evidence was well publicized in those cases, and there have also been academic studies of these laws. Some links: [1] [2] [3]. There are ineligible people who vote, but almost all of them do so by means that would not be stopped by voter ID laws, most commonly absentee ballots. This makes it very hard to find evidence that supports you points. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/how-voter-id-laws-discriminate-study/517218/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/how-vot... [2] https://now.tufts.edu/articles/proving-voter-id-law-s-discriminating-intent https://now.tufts.edu/articles/proving-voter-id-law-s-discri... [3] https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-...

MatrixAlgebra 8y ago

ID requirements make a tremendous amount of sense. Fear of those laws repressing certain groups should just incentivize watchdogs and protections ensuring that repressive regulations are not passed. Seriously, just because a good law could be abused does not mean we should avoid enacting such a law. That sort of thinking would seriously restrict our legal system if it was applied in all cases.

rectang 8y ago

IDs are not issued automatically in the US; they take money and effort to acquire. Therefore as implemented in the US, voter IDs are a poll tax. Unsurprisingly, this makes voter ID a political issue: those who benefit from poll taxes support them, and those whose voters are suppressed by poll taxes oppose them.

mikejholly 8y ago
You also need to wear clothes and shoes into the polling station. Are those expenses considered poll taxes as well? Straw man, but requiring ID is not really a direct poll tax. I certainly don't feel like I'm being unreasonably taxed when I vote with my ID.
- slg 8y ago
  You are thinking of this as a person who already has a government issued ID. If you don't drive and don't travel internationally there isn't much in life that would require you go acquire a government issued ID. If the only reason you need the ID is to vote, many people who don't already have an ID won't vote.
  - mikejholly 8y ago
    This argument seems like grasping me to. How would one function in society at all without an ID? Opening a bank account, cashing a check, driving a car, visiting a doctor, taking a train or plane, going to court. These are all activities which require ID. Sure, there is a tiny fraction of people who can't engage in those activities. But how likely is it that those folks are going to be voting, anyhow? I found this video pretty funny while searching around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxZGWCdgs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxZGWCdgs
    - erik_seaberg 8y ago
      Employers are legally required to check ID. Not sure about landlords or hotels but nearly all of them seem to.

ttctciyf 8y ago

> Voting requires ID in almost every other western democracy Not in the UK. [1] > Do I need to take ID to the polling station? > You do not need to show ID to vote in England, Scotland and Wales. You just need to tell polling staff your name and address. They will then cross your name off the list and give you a ballot paper. There were trials of a voter id system recently, but it is widely regarded as "a solution in search of a problem" and a way of suppressing the vote of the economically disadvantaged, the natural opponents of the ruling right wing Tory party[2] 1: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/07/how-do-i-vote-in-the-uk-general-election https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/07/how-do-i-vo... 2: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/29/england-voter-id-trial-discrimination-fears-electoral-fraud https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/29/england-vot...

nitwit005 8y ago

Looking at the description of Canada, it looks similar to how the US has worked. The general thing people have wanted to avoid is an extra burden that burdens poor voters. Either an ID that costs money (poll taxes are banned in many countries, so this is always a little dubious), or that simply requires going to a distant or understaffed facility to get the ID. The only reason it's a political issue at all is because the Republican party has been rather openly seeking these negative effects to their electoral benefit: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-acknowledge-leveraging-voter-id-laws-for-political-gain.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-ackno...

Fej 8y ago

Almost every other Western democracy also has national ID cards, which the United States does not. It sounds like a good idea in theory, but in practice - specifically in the United States - requiring ID for registered voters at the polling station is used by the Republican Party for the sole purpose of disenfranchising Democratic voters.

0xcde4c3db 8y ago

Government-issued ID in general has a long history of being contentious in the US, and is consequently a complete goddamn mess. As a country, we really aren't in the habit of setting things up with the assumption that every citizen has an official ID. So not requring ID to vote looks strange compared to other countries, but not compared to how we treat ID generally in the US.

cmurf 8y ago

What's contentious is the versions used by Republicans: make the required ID a kind of ID you can only obtain in certain locations, and then close most all of those locations in predominately black counties, or make the ID expensive or obscure or difficult to obtain for working folks. And even when it isn't racist, it's very clearly there to preserve GOP majorities: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/outlook/article/Voter-ID-isn-t-racist-it-there-to-protect-12890005.php https://www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/outlook/article/Vot... https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2016/0730/Voter-ID-movement-stumbles-in-courts-as-judges-ID-racism https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2016/0730/Voter-ID-mo... By all means make voter ID required, just make sure the burden for obtaining it is identical across all demographics.

specialist 8y ago

The USA also has the separate hurdle of registering to vote. Administered by the States. YMMV. No one would object to voter ID requirements if it wasn't weaponized to disenfranchise voters. The fix is automatic, universal voter registration. Just like every other mature democracy.