7 ms·

America is one of I believe only 2 countries that demand tax on income from its citizens who live and earn abroad (and who have almost certainly already paid ta

America is one of I believe only 2 countries that demand tax on income from its citizens who live and earn abroad (and who have almost certainly already paid tax on that income to the country in which they are living). My understanding is that they won't always even accept a renunciation of citizenship if they believe you're doing it to avoid paying them taxes. It's no surprise to me that there are significant numbers of expats with large unpaid tax bills, possibly from years of working, paying taxes in the country in which they live but never paying US taxes. Point being that this is probably not primarily targetting rich people who aren't paying their share, but people who are paying their share in the country in which they live and work, but are failing to pay an extra portion of tax to a country they left years ago.

mdorazio 8y ago
And? If you're that invested in another country, give up your US passport and get one with the new country. Alternatively, work to get the tax laws in the US changed. It's not like this stuff is a secret - if you want to work abroad you're going to get double taxed. Not paying the US portion of taxes is illegal. I don't understand the issue here, maybe you can explain it to me?
- firic 8y ago
  It is not that simple to renounce US citizenship. As op wrote, if they think that you are renouncing because of taxes, they will flat out deny your request. Furthermore, changing tax law for an expat is virtually impossible because it is very hard to vote from abroad, and expats are very diverse so no one politician would care to represent them.
- ant6n 8y ago
  Complaining about laws/rules is 'working towards getting them changed'.
- somebadguy 8y ago
  Oh shut the fuck up you sanctimonious cock.
- perl4ever 8y ago
  What do you mean double taxed? If you get a tax credit for foreign taxes, it's rather disingenuous to claim to be double taxed, although you could argue it's true in the sense you file for multiple jurisdictions.
Godel_unicode 8y ago
You're aware that foreign tax can be taken as a credit or deduction, yes? Further not only are you incorrect about the whole "won't accept" thing, they have a whole process for exactly how you do it. Importantly, that process only applies to well-off expats (multiple years at $150k+ or >$2m in net worth) and anyone else who wants out can get out quickly and cheaply. This whole flap isn't about"can't pay", it's about "don't want to". https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-tax-credit-choosing-to-take-credit-or-deduction https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/fore... https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/expatriation-tax https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/expa...
- slededit 8y ago
  You seriously underestimate the burden the US places on its expats and banks that do business with them. Its to the point most foreign banks will not do business with US nationals.
  - Godel_unicode 8y ago
    No, I really don't :) :%s/most/a select few you shouldn't work with anyway
    - slededit 8y ago
      Its actually the vast majority of foreign banks, except those with a strong US presence (and even then not always. E.g. Deutsche bank won't take US clients in Germany [0]). > Most Foreign Banks Don't Want U.S. Clients; How To Find One That Does [1] > U.S. ambassador to Switzerland is asking banks in the country to reverse course and accept Americans as clients. [2] 0: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-banks-expats/u-s-expats-find-their-money-is-no-longer-welcome-at-the-bank-idUSKBN0EM16V20140611 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-banks-expats/u-s-expats-f... 1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahljacobs/2012/07/31/most-foreign-banks-dont-want-u-s-clients-how-to-find-one-that-does/#67f972fc7704 https://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahljacobs/2012/07/31/most-... 2: http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/20/investing/swiss-banks-americans-fatca-switzerland/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/20/investing/swiss-banks-americ...
perl4ever 8y ago
"America is one of I believe only 2 countries that demand tax on income from its citizens who live and earn abroad" When I pay taxes to a foreign country, I generally get a tax credit on my US taxes. Complaints like yours tend to lead me to infer you think you're entitled to lower than US tax rates in some tax shelter locale, but you are implying (for sympathy) the issue is being taxed higher than a typical citizen of the EU or US.

mdorazio 8y ago

And? If you're that invested in another country, give up your US passport and get one with the new country. Alternatively, work to get the tax laws in the US changed. It's not like this stuff is a secret - if you want to work abroad you're going to get double taxed. Not paying the US portion of taxes is illegal. I don't understand the issue here, maybe you can explain it to me?

firic 8y ago
It is not that simple to renounce US citizenship. As op wrote, if they think that you are renouncing because of taxes, they will flat out deny your request. Furthermore, changing tax law for an expat is virtually impossible because it is very hard to vote from abroad, and expats are very diverse so no one politician would care to represent them.
ant6n 8y ago
Complaining about laws/rules is 'working towards getting them changed'.
somebadguy 8y ago
Oh shut the fuck up you sanctimonious cock.
perl4ever 8y ago
What do you mean double taxed? If you get a tax credit for foreign taxes, it's rather disingenuous to claim to be double taxed, although you could argue it's true in the sense you file for multiple jurisdictions.

Godel_unicode 8y ago

You're aware that foreign tax can be taken as a credit or deduction, yes? Further not only are you incorrect about the whole "won't accept" thing, they have a whole process for exactly how you do it. Importantly, that process only applies to well-off expats (multiple years at $150k+ or >$2m in net worth) and anyone else who wants out can get out quickly and cheaply. This whole flap isn't about"can't pay", it's about "don't want to". https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-tax-credit-choosing-to-take-credit-or-deduction https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/fore... https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/expatriation-tax https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/expa...

slededit 8y ago
You seriously underestimate the burden the US places on its expats and banks that do business with them. Its to the point most foreign banks will not do business with US nationals.
- Godel_unicode 8y ago
  No, I really don't :) :%s/most/a select few you shouldn't work with anyway
  - slededit 8y ago
    Its actually the vast majority of foreign banks, except those with a strong US presence (and even then not always. E.g. Deutsche bank won't take US clients in Germany [0]). > Most Foreign Banks Don't Want U.S. Clients; How To Find One That Does [1] > U.S. ambassador to Switzerland is asking banks in the country to reverse course and accept Americans as clients. [2] 0: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-banks-expats/u-s-expats-find-their-money-is-no-longer-welcome-at-the-bank-idUSKBN0EM16V20140611 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-banks-expats/u-s-expats-f... 1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahljacobs/2012/07/31/most-foreign-banks-dont-want-u-s-clients-how-to-find-one-that-does/#67f972fc7704 https://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahljacobs/2012/07/31/most-... 2: http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/20/investing/swiss-banks-americans-fatca-switzerland/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/20/investing/swiss-banks-americ...

perl4ever 8y ago

"America is one of I believe only 2 countries that demand tax on income from its citizens who live and earn abroad" When I pay taxes to a foreign country, I generally get a tax credit on my US taxes. Complaints like yours tend to lead me to infer you think you're entitled to lower than US tax rates in some tax shelter locale, but you are implying (for sympathy) the issue is being taxed higher than a typical citizen of the EU or US.