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> standard cookie-cutter $150-160k job offers Cookie-cutter offers?? Unless this is the Bay Area, I don't think there's such a thing as $160k jobs just floati

> standard cookie-cutter $150-160k job offers Cookie-cutter offers?? Unless this is the Bay Area, I don't think there's such a thing as $160k jobs just floating around. The top 10 tech companies barely even offer that as base for a good software engineer (excludes stock & bonus). > religious micromanaging Agile crap Definitely agree with you there though

kelukelugames 8y ago
With the exception of Amazon, I haven't received an offer with base pay lower than 150k in a long time. I'm a mid tier SWE at best. I think people are downvoting out of jealously.
- rootsudo 8y ago
  And here I am thinking I'm good by declining 70-85k jobs and focusing on 100k+.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Don’t believe the hype that all developers live in the three or four major cities where 150K is normal. There are plenty of major metropolitan areas where both salaries and cost of living is lower.
    - kelukelugames 8y ago
      Thanks for pointing that out. I should mention I'm in Seattle.
      - scarface74 8y ago
        That's about average for a senior developer in Seattle. But honestly, I wouldn't move to Seattle for that amount. $150K is about the max you will make as a software developer in my neck of the woods but I also just bought a 5 bed 3.5 bath, 3000 square foot house, brand new build for around $320K in a great school district..... I have a friend who works at Amazon and he was telling me how much he paid for a slightly smaller house. I was amazed. Out of the FAANG companies, Amazon is the one company that I think I would be able to work for.
        wilsonnb2 8y ago
        Interesting. I've heard that the culture at Amazon is generally considered to be worse than at Apple, Netflix, or Google. Not sure about Facebook.
        scarface74 8y ago
        Not referring to the culture - I’m referring to the company that I would actually have the qualifications to work for. They are always looking for AWS Architects at Amazon.
        kelukelugames 8y ago
        I just paid off my 720k mortgage in four years.
- timClicks 8y ago
  Sounds like I've got to get out of New Zealand!
  - scarface74 8y ago
    New Zealand probably also has a more affordable healthcare system, and lower cost higher education. It's all relative...
- vonmoltke 8y ago
  I only received my first six-figure base (and first six-figure total) offer two years ago. I had to move to NY to get it. The availability of these jobs is very regional and based on your specific skill set.
deltateam 8y ago
> I don't think there's such a thing as $160k jobs just floating around. Well, there are and the point of finally getting around to saying this out loud is to push through the brainwash. Too many people are subservient to their uncompetitive employers just because they feel obligated to "count their blessings". Turn down six figure job offers for the right gig which typically comes with a better compensation package. Before you make your rebuttal, lets up the stakes even more: I've done this unemployed with six figure debts, a calculated risk, and now I have no debts. Calculate your risk. If you get it wrong, ruin your family, lose access to credit and also end up homeless, well yeah that happens.
mlthoughts2018 8y ago
In NYC, Boston, Chicago, SF, and possibly Seattle, there is a definite trend toward standardized offers in the range of $150k-$160k, if you have ~3+ years of experience and do well in interviews. At bigger companies, it comes with annual RSU awards or bonuses, worth between maybe another $50k-$150k depending on your particular skill set or seniority. At start-ups, they try to sell you on an equity package that would work out to something close to the same annual dollar value under the assumption of a mildly positive exit or IPO. This cookie-cutter package has seemingly stagnated since maybe ~2014, at least in lots of interviews since then, I haven’t seen the offers going up much over time. But for many fields, $150k is not competitive with what the top end employers pay for a base salary, and the equity or bonus part would need to be in the $100k range to be competitive in total compensation. If you believe you’re a top developer and you can prove it during interviews, you absolutely should be targeting closer to $190k and substantial equity/bonus. If you also have 6+ years of experience or a PhD or something, you should be well over $200k on base salary alone, in major US cities. You should also be negotiating severance packages, sponsored attendance at conferences, customized equipment for your workspace, possibly negotiating improved expiration or acceleration terms in equity documents, a sign-on bonus in addition to relocation (which should be covered entirely by the company, including dealing with most of the arrangement making). Just say no (unless you’re in dire straits) if a company won’t negotiate all these things. Get good at talking about it, introducing the HR contact or recruiter to the idea that you expect a real, grown-up job offer covering a wide range of compensation and benefits. Otherwise it contributes to wage stagnation when employers believe they can keep making the same $150k offer and banking on new grads or people desperate to relocate to X or whatever, and not knowing what they are actually worth.
- sidr 8y ago
  > In NYC, Boston, Chicago, SF, and possibly Seattle Unrelated to your bigger point, but I'd put Seattle in second place after SF for the high offers. And for tech jobs, Chicago wouldn't feature on my list at all. I think you're focusing too much on base salary. Past a certain point, companies flatten out their base and only start upping the equity. Amazon actually has strict rules about it - they cap out their max base salary at 170 and there on it's all equity + sign-on bonus. People should look at the total comp - RSUs are reported on the W-2 anyway. And they can be sold immediately upon vesting (usually the vesting periods overlap with trading windows), so it's really no different than a salary.
adventured 8y ago
The average US programmer is closing in on six figures. Total compensation, it's already over that line. You can make six figures just doing remote Magento developer work these days. Just go scour the job sites, there are a ton of six figure remote jobs these days. $150k is a bit high, however it's not dramatically so.

kelukelugames 8y ago

With the exception of Amazon, I haven't received an offer with base pay lower than 150k in a long time. I'm a mid tier SWE at best. I think people are downvoting out of jealously.

rootsudo 8y ago
And here I am thinking I'm good by declining 70-85k jobs and focusing on 100k+.
- scarface74 8y ago
  Don’t believe the hype that all developers live in the three or four major cities where 150K is normal. There are plenty of major metropolitan areas where both salaries and cost of living is lower.
  - kelukelugames 8y ago
    Thanks for pointing that out. I should mention I'm in Seattle.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      That's about average for a senior developer in Seattle. But honestly, I wouldn't move to Seattle for that amount. $150K is about the max you will make as a software developer in my neck of the woods but I also just bought a 5 bed 3.5 bath, 3000 square foot house, brand new build for around $320K in a great school district..... I have a friend who works at Amazon and he was telling me how much he paid for a slightly smaller house. I was amazed. Out of the FAANG companies, Amazon is the one company that I think I would be able to work for.
      - wilsonnb2 8y ago
        Interesting. I've heard that the culture at Amazon is generally considered to be worse than at Apple, Netflix, or Google. Not sure about Facebook.
        scarface74 8y ago
        Not referring to the culture - I’m referring to the company that I would actually have the qualifications to work for. They are always looking for AWS Architects at Amazon.
      - kelukelugames 8y ago
        I just paid off my 720k mortgage in four years.
timClicks 8y ago
Sounds like I've got to get out of New Zealand!
- scarface74 8y ago
  New Zealand probably also has a more affordable healthcare system, and lower cost higher education. It's all relative...
vonmoltke 8y ago
I only received my first six-figure base (and first six-figure total) offer two years ago. I had to move to NY to get it. The availability of these jobs is very regional and based on your specific skill set.

deltateam 8y ago

> I don't think there's such a thing as $160k jobs just floating around. Well, there are and the point of finally getting around to saying this out loud is to push through the brainwash. Too many people are subservient to their uncompetitive employers just because they feel obligated to "count their blessings". Turn down six figure job offers for the right gig which typically comes with a better compensation package. Before you make your rebuttal, lets up the stakes even more: I've done this unemployed with six figure debts, a calculated risk, and now I have no debts. Calculate your risk. If you get it wrong, ruin your family, lose access to credit and also end up homeless, well yeah that happens.

mlthoughts2018 8y ago

In NYC, Boston, Chicago, SF, and possibly Seattle, there is a definite trend toward standardized offers in the range of $150k-$160k, if you have ~3+ years of experience and do well in interviews. At bigger companies, it comes with annual RSU awards or bonuses, worth between maybe another $50k-$150k depending on your particular skill set or seniority. At start-ups, they try to sell you on an equity package that would work out to something close to the same annual dollar value under the assumption of a mildly positive exit or IPO. This cookie-cutter package has seemingly stagnated since maybe ~2014, at least in lots of interviews since then, I haven’t seen the offers going up much over time. But for many fields, $150k is not competitive with what the top end employers pay for a base salary, and the equity or bonus part would need to be in the $100k range to be competitive in total compensation. If you believe you’re a top developer and you can prove it during interviews, you absolutely should be targeting closer to $190k and substantial equity/bonus. If you also have 6+ years of experience or a PhD or something, you should be well over $200k on base salary alone, in major US cities. You should also be negotiating severance packages, sponsored attendance at conferences, customized equipment for your workspace, possibly negotiating improved expiration or acceleration terms in equity documents, a sign-on bonus in addition to relocation (which should be covered entirely by the company, including dealing with most of the arrangement making). Just say no (unless you’re in dire straits) if a company won’t negotiate all these things. Get good at talking about it, introducing the HR contact or recruiter to the idea that you expect a real, grown-up job offer covering a wide range of compensation and benefits. Otherwise it contributes to wage stagnation when employers believe they can keep making the same $150k offer and banking on new grads or people desperate to relocate to X or whatever, and not knowing what they are actually worth.

sidr 8y ago
> In NYC, Boston, Chicago, SF, and possibly Seattle Unrelated to your bigger point, but I'd put Seattle in second place after SF for the high offers. And for tech jobs, Chicago wouldn't feature on my list at all. I think you're focusing too much on base salary. Past a certain point, companies flatten out their base and only start upping the equity. Amazon actually has strict rules about it - they cap out their max base salary at 170 and there on it's all equity + sign-on bonus. People should look at the total comp - RSUs are reported on the W-2 anyway. And they can be sold immediately upon vesting (usually the vesting periods overlap with trading windows), so it's really no different than a salary.

adventured 8y ago

The average US programmer is closing in on six figures. Total compensation, it's already over that line. You can make six figures just doing remote Magento developer work these days. Just go scour the job sites, there are a ton of six figure remote jobs these days. $150k is a bit high, however it's not dramatically so.