5 ms·

Good points all. The aesthetic appeal of this sort of indoor farming, and the space-age-ness gives the topic a tendency to over-excitement. I'd also add (4) Mo

Good points all. The aesthetic appeal of this sort of indoor farming, and the space-age-ness gives the topic a tendency to over-excitement. I'd also add (4) Mostly, urban/vertical/cubicle farms produce high quality/price leafy herbs & veg. It's not replacing vast cereal fields. That's a very small portion of agriculture overall, definitely by land use but also by most measures. All that said, the are real space-age-ish merits to this. It's like a showcase for various technologies, at (small, but still) production scale.

mc32 8y ago
Also, for these fast growing, relative high margin produce, having fresh product out of season that is near-local, I think has a demand.
- mygo 8y ago
  I believe that this is a relatively reliable marker for whether 5-star restaurants will be in the area. quick on-demand access to fresh, never-frozen, produce. They also tend to go for out-of-season / exotic produce, which is doesnt need to be grown in end-world-hunger quantities.
  - FrozenVoid 8y ago
    Why a restaurant wouldn't run their own private vertical farm where they would control the quality and amount of supply? That would remove supply volatility and transport costs entirely, and even some bulk products can be produced at smaller scale organically.
    - greggman 8y ago
      my guess is they have a limited amount of time to manage such a thing and the scale isn't large enough to cover the variety they'd want
    - azernik 8y ago
      Because there are serious costs to bringing everything in-house; you've got to get hold of the capital, you lose any economies of scale that come from addressing a larger market, etc. With regards to transportation costs, you're assuming that a restaurant running a private vertical farm could do so on its storefront premises, which is a big assumption. Most pricey restaurants are space-limited.
    - mygo 8y ago
      like these? http://m.wtol.com/toledonewsnow/pm_/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=od:cQJkAIfO http://m.wtol.com/toledonewsnow/pm_/contentdetail.htm?conten... https://www.circa.com/story/2017/12/20/food/a-vertical-%20farm-in-a-New-York-City-basement-is-%20growing-rare-plants-from-around-the-world https://www.circa.com/story/2017/12/20/food/a-vertical-%20fa... anyway, I’m not a big fan of the use of indoor farms with artificial lighting. The sun provides the energy that plants need to us at no cost but it’s costly to produce the energy from LED’s. I’m more in favor of the use of greenhouses on rooftops, and urban restaurants getting as much produce as possible sourced from local urban farms, and creating that economy. But hey, people are definitely doing it with LED’s on-premise and making it work for them.
rorykoehler 8y ago
There is a pretty good case to wean us off cereals. They aren’t the best diet health wise. We only consume so much because they are calorie dense and easy to grow.
- throwaway2048 8y ago
  you have to replace those calories with something, and it makes no sense if the something has 100x the production costs for what returns exactly?
  - rorykoehler 8y ago
    The issue with this view is it is looking at the future potential using today's technology and efficiency. We're about to blow productivity per watt out of the water and this will change everything. If you want to know more watch jeremy rifkin's talk on YouTube https://youtu.be/QX3M8Ka9vUA https://youtu.be/QX3M8Ka9vUA
    - throwaway2048 8y ago
      You are never going to beat the efficency of the sun shining down on plants for free, no matter what. I mean the entire idea is absurd, what are you going to have solar panels on the building that somehow collect light and re-emit it, and have that be more efficent than just the plants collecting the light directly? So you take more land area for solar, why wouldnt you just plant crops on that land area instead...
      - rorykoehler 8y ago
        If you grow things indoors close to where they will be consumed you can control the environment reducing risk of drought, flooding, pest, pollution, wildfires, storm damage, blight etc etc. You also reduce the supply chain complexities around collection, transport and storage (inert gas storage etc). There are many other considerations apart from energy and when energy becomes cheap enough the game will turn in favour of growing in urban areas.
TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
Mostly leafy greens are already grown hydroponically, I believe.

mc32 8y ago

Also, for these fast growing, relative high margin produce, having fresh product out of season that is near-local, I think has a demand.

mygo 8y ago
I believe that this is a relatively reliable marker for whether 5-star restaurants will be in the area. quick on-demand access to fresh, never-frozen, produce. They also tend to go for out-of-season / exotic produce, which is doesnt need to be grown in end-world-hunger quantities.
- FrozenVoid 8y ago
  Why a restaurant wouldn't run their own private vertical farm where they would control the quality and amount of supply? That would remove supply volatility and transport costs entirely, and even some bulk products can be produced at smaller scale organically.
  - greggman 8y ago
    my guess is they have a limited amount of time to manage such a thing and the scale isn't large enough to cover the variety they'd want
  - azernik 8y ago
    Because there are serious costs to bringing everything in-house; you've got to get hold of the capital, you lose any economies of scale that come from addressing a larger market, etc. With regards to transportation costs, you're assuming that a restaurant running a private vertical farm could do so on its storefront premises, which is a big assumption. Most pricey restaurants are space-limited.
  - mygo 8y ago
    like these? http://m.wtol.com/toledonewsnow/pm_/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=od:cQJkAIfO http://m.wtol.com/toledonewsnow/pm_/contentdetail.htm?conten... https://www.circa.com/story/2017/12/20/food/a-vertical-%20farm-in-a-New-York-City-basement-is-%20growing-rare-plants-from-around-the-world https://www.circa.com/story/2017/12/20/food/a-vertical-%20fa... anyway, I’m not a big fan of the use of indoor farms with artificial lighting. The sun provides the energy that plants need to us at no cost but it’s costly to produce the energy from LED’s. I’m more in favor of the use of greenhouses on rooftops, and urban restaurants getting as much produce as possible sourced from local urban farms, and creating that economy. But hey, people are definitely doing it with LED’s on-premise and making it work for them.

rorykoehler 8y ago

There is a pretty good case to wean us off cereals. They aren’t the best diet health wise. We only consume so much because they are calorie dense and easy to grow.

throwaway2048 8y ago
you have to replace those calories with something, and it makes no sense if the something has 100x the production costs for what returns exactly?
- rorykoehler 8y ago
  The issue with this view is it is looking at the future potential using today's technology and efficiency. We're about to blow productivity per watt out of the water and this will change everything. If you want to know more watch jeremy rifkin's talk on YouTube https://youtu.be/QX3M8Ka9vUA https://youtu.be/QX3M8Ka9vUA
  - throwaway2048 8y ago
    You are never going to beat the efficency of the sun shining down on plants for free, no matter what. I mean the entire idea is absurd, what are you going to have solar panels on the building that somehow collect light and re-emit it, and have that be more efficent than just the plants collecting the light directly? So you take more land area for solar, why wouldnt you just plant crops on that land area instead...
    - rorykoehler 8y ago
      If you grow things indoors close to where they will be consumed you can control the environment reducing risk of drought, flooding, pest, pollution, wildfires, storm damage, blight etc etc. You also reduce the supply chain complexities around collection, transport and storage (inert gas storage etc). There are many other considerations apart from energy and when energy becomes cheap enough the game will turn in favour of growing in urban areas.

TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago

Mostly leafy greens are already grown hydroponically, I believe.