5 ms·

My point is that Apple,Amazon will not be able to build up valuable IP. They don't get culture. Content is not about quantity.

culturestate 8y ago
You think that Apple of all companies doesn’t understand popular culture? Two of their senior executives used to run major fashion houses, another is Dr. Dre, and the guy who previously served as their music content director is the frontman of Nine Inch Nails. Apple undoubtedly has some significant hurdles to jump over in this space but a lack of cultural understanding is not one of them.
- ethbro 8y ago
  No offense to fashion executives and musicians, but their expertise seems orthogonal to running large, diverse content business. Maybe they have that skillset too. It doesn't follow intrinsically though. (And also has an interesting parallel with Apple starting to obsess about odd things customers don't really care about)
  - culturestate 8y ago
    > their expertise seems orthogonal to running large, diverse content business. They also have Jimmy Iovine and a bunch of former Hollywood execs running the business side of things. I was just trying to point out that of the major tech companies, Apple probably has the best “cultural” bona fides by a wide margin. > also has an interesting parallel with Apple starting to obsess about odd things customers don't really care about Can you give some examples of what you see fitting into this category?
    - ethbro 8y ago
      > Can you give some examples of what you see fitting into this category? Most of the standard HN gripes. Design prioritized over regular hardware updates for existing product lines. Mobile emphasis to the detriment of desktop and developer. Touch Bar. Keyboard changes to an already loved design. Pursuit of thinness / lightness past the point of utility. iPhone stiffness issues. iPhone antenna issues. Severe macOS functionality regressions / bugs in updates. Apple makes a great product, so I'm not bashing. But their priorities seem increasingly myopic, and they're losing the forest for the trees.
      - mywittyname 8y ago
        You're kind of undermining your own point. Many of these are examples where Apple is obsessing over things their customers do care about. Like it or not, you're not the type of consumer Apple values highly. They need customers like you, but they're only willing to put forth the minimum effort to hang on to you.
        ethbro 8y ago
        I'd assume devices being able to stand up to normal use and function is something customers care about. We can quibble over whether or not the Touch Bar is an improvement or a regression, but dust jamming keyboards that can't be decapped? That's someone taking their eye off the ball of customer experience. Not just for power users, but for all users.
        1123581321 8y ago
        The new keyboard is great. I expect they’ll figure out the defect issue, but the design is a classic example of Apple changing tastes (as seen in keyboard and trackpad preferences in higher end PCs now.) Their TV push will be analogous and it doesn’t make sense to read so much into the existence of a repair program. I would agree that producing TV isn’t a Steve Jobs “bicycle” move, though, and that’s the same with the non-swappable-parts strategy they employ in hardware, even though the software is liberating and creative. I think they are pursuing the right strategy, but wouldn’t it be great if Apple’s content push could come more directly from users’ copies of Final Cut Pro? (I’m a power user and Marco Arment doesn’t speak for me.)
harveynick 8y ago
I can't say about Apple (though they really haven't made a start), but Amazon already have some really good stuff. American Gods, Preacher, now The Expanse, and I'm really enjoying Patriot.
- ethbro 8y ago
  Patriot is definitely underrated. Especially for anyone who loved the dark humor in Lock Stock or In Bruges.
  - harveynick 8y ago
    In Bruges is a fantastic comparison for Patriot. Thanks for that, I've been looking for a good point of reference.
    - ethbro 8y ago
      I usually just tell people, "If you're comfortable at laughing when everyone in the scene is sad and there's no laugh track, this might be a good show for you."
- geodel 8y ago
  Well Apple is going to have Oprah to start with. I think they are making clear that their shows will not have anything edgy. They will be looking to emulate Disney. Mostly stylized crap or some simplistic take on sensitive issues.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    So what you're saying is that they totally get culture?
    - JackCh 8y ago
      Who 'gets it' more? ABC or HBO? (This is not a rhetorical question.)
JackFr 8y ago
So you're telling me that the producers of The Emoji Movie and the 20+ seasons of Survivor get culture, and realize that content is about quality? US movie studios and television production are more costly than they need to be, because they need to pay for the barnacles and rent-seeking cruft that attached themselves to the industry when they were operating for a half century with an oligopoly on distribution. When challenged by upstarts, they reduced costs by making crap reality shows and squeezing established franchises to death theaters. They are a business, and at this point, they will be squeezed by Amazon & Netflix.
- opportune 8y ago
  The real problem here is that consumers don't want culture. The emoji movie made over $200mm at the box office while having a budget one quarter of that. Survivor got so many seasons because it did well with viewers. Studios don't care if they have to put out crap as long as it makes them money. If Amazon prime becomes a household good, meaning it sees wide adoption by a large viewing segment which doesn't care about seeing high quality content, that puts Amazon in a great position to churn out bad shows with popular appeal.
  - sievebrain 8y ago
    Emoji movie is culture, whether we like it or not. There's no rule that culture has to be highbrow.
    - opportune 8y ago
      Oh I agree, it's just that in this context it seemed the parent implicitly meant high-brow culture when saying "get culture."
scarface74 8y ago
They don't have to be as good as Netflix. Apple just has to be good enough to be an additional reason to buy high margin Apple hardware. Amazon just has to be good enough to pull you into Amazon Prime. For Netflix, streaming is the product. For Apple and Amazon, it's just a feature that on its own can break even or even lose a little bit of money.

culturestate 8y ago

You think that Apple of all companies doesn’t understand popular culture? Two of their senior executives used to run major fashion houses, another is Dr. Dre, and the guy who previously served as their music content director is the frontman of Nine Inch Nails. Apple undoubtedly has some significant hurdles to jump over in this space but a lack of cultural understanding is not one of them.

ethbro 8y ago
No offense to fashion executives and musicians, but their expertise seems orthogonal to running large, diverse content business. Maybe they have that skillset too. It doesn't follow intrinsically though. (And also has an interesting parallel with Apple starting to obsess about odd things customers don't really care about)
- culturestate 8y ago
  > their expertise seems orthogonal to running large, diverse content business. They also have Jimmy Iovine and a bunch of former Hollywood execs running the business side of things. I was just trying to point out that of the major tech companies, Apple probably has the best “cultural” bona fides by a wide margin. > also has an interesting parallel with Apple starting to obsess about odd things customers don't really care about Can you give some examples of what you see fitting into this category?
  - ethbro 8y ago
    > Can you give some examples of what you see fitting into this category? Most of the standard HN gripes. Design prioritized over regular hardware updates for existing product lines. Mobile emphasis to the detriment of desktop and developer. Touch Bar. Keyboard changes to an already loved design. Pursuit of thinness / lightness past the point of utility. iPhone stiffness issues. iPhone antenna issues. Severe macOS functionality regressions / bugs in updates. Apple makes a great product, so I'm not bashing. But their priorities seem increasingly myopic, and they're losing the forest for the trees.
    - mywittyname 8y ago
      You're kind of undermining your own point. Many of these are examples where Apple is obsessing over things their customers do care about. Like it or not, you're not the type of consumer Apple values highly. They need customers like you, but they're only willing to put forth the minimum effort to hang on to you.
      - ethbro 8y ago
        I'd assume devices being able to stand up to normal use and function is something customers care about. We can quibble over whether or not the Touch Bar is an improvement or a regression, but dust jamming keyboards that can't be decapped? That's someone taking their eye off the ball of customer experience. Not just for power users, but for all users.
        1123581321 8y ago
        The new keyboard is great. I expect they’ll figure out the defect issue, but the design is a classic example of Apple changing tastes (as seen in keyboard and trackpad preferences in higher end PCs now.) Their TV push will be analogous and it doesn’t make sense to read so much into the existence of a repair program. I would agree that producing TV isn’t a Steve Jobs “bicycle” move, though, and that’s the same with the non-swappable-parts strategy they employ in hardware, even though the software is liberating and creative. I think they are pursuing the right strategy, but wouldn’t it be great if Apple’s content push could come more directly from users’ copies of Final Cut Pro? (I’m a power user and Marco Arment doesn’t speak for me.)

harveynick 8y ago

I can't say about Apple (though they really haven't made a start), but Amazon already have some really good stuff. American Gods, Preacher, now The Expanse, and I'm really enjoying Patriot.

ethbro 8y ago
Patriot is definitely underrated. Especially for anyone who loved the dark humor in Lock Stock or In Bruges.
- harveynick 8y ago
  In Bruges is a fantastic comparison for Patriot. Thanks for that, I've been looking for a good point of reference.
  - ethbro 8y ago
    I usually just tell people, "If you're comfortable at laughing when everyone in the scene is sad and there's no laugh track, this might be a good show for you."
geodel 8y ago
Well Apple is going to have Oprah to start with. I think they are making clear that their shows will not have anything edgy. They will be looking to emulate Disney. Mostly stylized crap or some simplistic take on sensitive issues.
- icebraining 8y ago
  So what you're saying is that they totally get culture?
  - JackCh 8y ago
    Who 'gets it' more? ABC or HBO? (This is not a rhetorical question.)

JackFr 8y ago

So you're telling me that the producers of The Emoji Movie and the 20+ seasons of Survivor get culture, and realize that content is about quality? US movie studios and television production are more costly than they need to be, because they need to pay for the barnacles and rent-seeking cruft that attached themselves to the industry when they were operating for a half century with an oligopoly on distribution. When challenged by upstarts, they reduced costs by making crap reality shows and squeezing established franchises to death theaters. They are a business, and at this point, they will be squeezed by Amazon & Netflix.

opportune 8y ago
The real problem here is that consumers don't want culture. The emoji movie made over $200mm at the box office while having a budget one quarter of that. Survivor got so many seasons because it did well with viewers. Studios don't care if they have to put out crap as long as it makes them money. If Amazon prime becomes a household good, meaning it sees wide adoption by a large viewing segment which doesn't care about seeing high quality content, that puts Amazon in a great position to churn out bad shows with popular appeal.
- sievebrain 8y ago
  Emoji movie is culture, whether we like it or not. There's no rule that culture has to be highbrow.
  - opportune 8y ago
    Oh I agree, it's just that in this context it seemed the parent implicitly meant high-brow culture when saying "get culture."

scarface74 8y ago

They don't have to be as good as Netflix. Apple just has to be good enough to be an additional reason to buy high margin Apple hardware. Amazon just has to be good enough to pull you into Amazon Prime. For Netflix, streaming is the product. For Apple and Amazon, it's just a feature that on its own can break even or even lose a little bit of money.