19 ms·

Those of us who are not from the US may not know who this man was. From the Wikipedia article about him: > Frederick Douglass (born Frederick Augustus Washing

Those of us who are not from the US may not know who this man was. From the Wikipedia article about him: > Frederick Douglass (born Frederick Augustus Washington Bailey; c. February 1818 – February 20, 1895) was an American social reformer, abolitionist, orator, writer, and statesman. After escaping from slavery in Maryland, he became a national leader of the abolitionist movement in Massachusetts and New York, gaining note for his oratory and incisive antislavery writings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Douglass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Douglass

nicolas_t 8y ago
It's humbling to read about his life and the many major figures in the abolitionist movement. Those men and women really deserve respect for how visionary and open minded they were in a world of close mindedness.
- barking 8y ago
  >"It's humbling to read about his life and the many major figures in the abolitionist movement. Those men and women really deserve respect for how visionary and open minded they were in a world of close mindedness." In 150 years people may well be saying the same thing about the major figures in today's anti-abortion movements.
  - rsynnott 8y ago
    No, probably not.
    - barking 8y ago
      Two classes of human beings, slaves and fetuses, each deprived of human rights, for valid reasons in the eyes of the supporters of the respective practice.
      - cinquemb 8y ago
        Well, at least with slavery, slave owners to some degree or another had to at least mitigate against the risk of revolt or uprising throughout history. I suspect fetuses might be held in higher regard if they could exert their sovereignty inside their parents womb to any sufficient degree before/during/after an abortion.
        barking 8y ago
        They're hidden away and disposed of in secret. It got so bad in the recent referendum campaign in Ireland that even to show an ultrasound image of a normal in-utero fetus was regarded as hurtful and offensive.
        isolli 8y ago
        Source?
        barking 8y ago
        https://lovindublin.com/dublin/abortion-posters-maternity-hospital https://lovindublin.com/dublin/abortion-posters-maternity-ho...
      - kaybe 8y ago
        When a fetus does not need somebody to spend their time and pain hosting them and risk their health and life doing it, then we can talk about this. Even if it was not a fetus but an adult with a fully formed conciousness and personality, this would be a hard demand to make, and our laws reflect that.
        barking 8y ago
        Euthanasia for dependent adults is legal now?
        kaybe 8y ago
  - wpietri 8y ago
    Probably not. Strong anti-abortion views are mostly religious in nature, and only for specific religious subgroups: http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/views-about-abortion/ http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/views-abou... The evangelical absolutism around abortion is historically new. Before 1980, plenty of evangelical Christians had nuanced views on the topic: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/02/18/the-biblical-view-thats-younger-than-the-happy-meal/ http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/02/18/the-bibl... Even some evangelical writers see this as mainly about a wedge issues used for political power, not morality: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2018/07/03/the-con-game-of-anti-abortion-partisanship-that-replaced-christianity-has-been-so-successful-that-we-forget-how-recently-it-was-invented/ http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2018/07/03/the-con-... So I think it's no coincidence that at the same time extreme anti-abortion views came to prominence on the US right, the US right became steadily more extreme, with centrists disappearing from the Republican side of the aisle in Congress: https://xkcd.com/1127/large/ https://xkcd.com/1127/large/ My expectation is that this, like all positive feedback loops, will eventually break, and Christians will return to historical norms. And I'd further guess that this will be aided technological advances that make extreme antiabortion views untenable. Look, for example at the question that goes something like, "In a clinic fire, would you save a five year old or a tank with 1,000 embryos?". [1] Advances in medicine, AI, copying minds, and animal uplift would provide many more examples, forcing a debate around what really makes something a legally protected person. If an AI, a human mind moved to silicon, and a dog with a 140 IQ all get citizenship, it'll harder to explain why a nonsentient fertilized human egg gets those protections. [1] https://www.quora.com/In-the-abortion-debate-isnt-the-5-year-old-versus-1-000-frozen-embryos-analogy-just-an-emotional-appeal-and-therefore-useless-in-determining-fetal-personhood https://www.quora.com/In-the-abortion-debate-isnt-the-5-year...
    - Mediterraneo10 8y ago
      > Christians will return to historical norms. Abortion is condemned in the Didache (late 1st century/early 2nd century CE). There were already rigorously set penalties under canon law for abortion in the 1st millennium. It may be that American Evangelical Christians will return to the moderate views about the issue that they held several decades ago, but it is entire possible that the "historical norms" that any Christian community might return to are the ones even further back in time.
  - bryanrasmussen 8y ago
    When a fetus gives a rousing speech in front of a room of major political figures I for one will certainly take notice.
    - rtx 8y ago
      Crying in pain is not far off.
  - dang 8y ago
    This comment badly broke the HN guideline against introducing generic flamebait into threads. The last thing we need is flamewars about abortion. Please don't do this again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
arethuza 8y ago
Frederick Douglass is mentioned in Sagan's superb "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark": "Frederick Douglass taught that literacy is the path from slavery to freedom. There are many kinds of slavery and many kinds of freedom. But reading is still the path." Also, perhaps my favourite part describing the reaction to a speech by Douglass: "His very appearance and demeanour destroyed the then- prevalent myth of the 'natural servility' of African-Americans. By all accounts his eloquent analysis of the evils of slavery was one of the most brilliant debuts in American oratorical history. William Lloyd Garrison, the leading abolitionist of the day, sat in the front row. When Douglass finished his speech. Garrison rose, turned to the stunned audience, and challenged them with a shouted question: 'Have we been listening to a thing, a chattel personal, or a man?' 'A man! A man!' the audience roared back as one voice. 'Shall such a man be held a slave in a Christian land?' called out Garrison. 'No! No!' shouted the audience. And even louder, Garrison asked: 'Shall such a man ever be sent back to bondage from the free soil of Old Massachusetts?' And now the crowd was on its feet, crying out 'No! No! No!' He never did return to slavery."
- arionhardison 8y ago
  > "Frederick Douglass taught that literacy is the path from slavery to freedom. There are many kinds of slavery and many kinds of freedom. But reading is still the path." I believe this same thing holds true for coding and the modern day African American ( of which I am one ). I earn 6x more than my father ( Fisk University / TSU - BS/Masters ), 3x more than my sister ( Yale / Columbia Educated Architect - BS/Masters ) and an even greater multiple more than the rest of my family - yet I have no college education. I truly wish more African Americans saw that coding is the new literacy and IMO a real path to freedom.
  - swoongoonz 8y ago
    I talk a lot about this with my wife. She's half mexican-american, I'm a quarter so we compare notes. Not everyone has what it takes to code. I played the hell out of video games for hours and hours on end as a kid. I'm kind of a natural fit for sitting in front of a computer for hours, trouble shooting until I succeed. My parents, my siblings, my friends I grew up with... not so much. Not scientific, but I kind of think we won the lottery for brains and the personality to do the kind of work we do for long stretches of time.
bjd2385 8y ago
If I'm not mistaken, he is buried at Mt. Hope cemetery in Rochester, NY. I remember from my visits that he has two grave stones, each with a different birth date, because his real birth date is unknown. Actually, according to the Wikipedia article, "The exact date of his birth is unknown, and he later chose to celebrate his birthday on February 14. In his first autobiography, Douglass stated: 'I have no accurate knowledge of my age, never having seen any authentic record containing it.'"
extralego 8y ago
“Frederick Douglass is an example of somebody who’s done an amazing job and is getting recognized more and more, I notice.” — President Donald J. Trump, February 1, 2017
- andrepd 8y ago
  Such a way with words.

nicolas_t 8y ago

It's humbling to read about his life and the many major figures in the abolitionist movement. Those men and women really deserve respect for how visionary and open minded they were in a world of close mindedness.

barking 8y ago
>"It's humbling to read about his life and the many major figures in the abolitionist movement. Those men and women really deserve respect for how visionary and open minded they were in a world of close mindedness." In 150 years people may well be saying the same thing about the major figures in today's anti-abortion movements.
- rsynnott 8y ago
  No, probably not.
  - barking 8y ago
    Two classes of human beings, slaves and fetuses, each deprived of human rights, for valid reasons in the eyes of the supporters of the respective practice.
    - cinquemb 8y ago
      Well, at least with slavery, slave owners to some degree or another had to at least mitigate against the risk of revolt or uprising throughout history. I suspect fetuses might be held in higher regard if they could exert their sovereignty inside their parents womb to any sufficient degree before/during/after an abortion.
      - barking 8y ago
        They're hidden away and disposed of in secret. It got so bad in the recent referendum campaign in Ireland that even to show an ultrasound image of a normal in-utero fetus was regarded as hurtful and offensive.
        isolli 8y ago
        Source?
        barking 8y ago
        https://lovindublin.com/dublin/abortion-posters-maternity-hospital https://lovindublin.com/dublin/abortion-posters-maternity-ho...
    - kaybe 8y ago
      When a fetus does not need somebody to spend their time and pain hosting them and risk their health and life doing it, then we can talk about this. Even if it was not a fetus but an adult with a fully formed conciousness and personality, this would be a hard demand to make, and our laws reflect that.
      - barking 8y ago
        Euthanasia for dependent adults is legal now?
        kaybe 8y ago
- wpietri 8y ago
  Probably not. Strong anti-abortion views are mostly religious in nature, and only for specific religious subgroups: http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/views-about-abortion/ http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/views-abou... The evangelical absolutism around abortion is historically new. Before 1980, plenty of evangelical Christians had nuanced views on the topic: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/02/18/the-biblical-view-thats-younger-than-the-happy-meal/ http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/02/18/the-bibl... Even some evangelical writers see this as mainly about a wedge issues used for political power, not morality: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2018/07/03/the-con-game-of-anti-abortion-partisanship-that-replaced-christianity-has-been-so-successful-that-we-forget-how-recently-it-was-invented/ http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2018/07/03/the-con-... So I think it's no coincidence that at the same time extreme anti-abortion views came to prominence on the US right, the US right became steadily more extreme, with centrists disappearing from the Republican side of the aisle in Congress: https://xkcd.com/1127/large/ https://xkcd.com/1127/large/ My expectation is that this, like all positive feedback loops, will eventually break, and Christians will return to historical norms. And I'd further guess that this will be aided technological advances that make extreme antiabortion views untenable. Look, for example at the question that goes something like, "In a clinic fire, would you save a five year old or a tank with 1,000 embryos?". [1] Advances in medicine, AI, copying minds, and animal uplift would provide many more examples, forcing a debate around what really makes something a legally protected person. If an AI, a human mind moved to silicon, and a dog with a 140 IQ all get citizenship, it'll harder to explain why a nonsentient fertilized human egg gets those protections. [1] https://www.quora.com/In-the-abortion-debate-isnt-the-5-year-old-versus-1-000-frozen-embryos-analogy-just-an-emotional-appeal-and-therefore-useless-in-determining-fetal-personhood https://www.quora.com/In-the-abortion-debate-isnt-the-5-year...
  - Mediterraneo10 8y ago
    > Christians will return to historical norms. Abortion is condemned in the Didache (late 1st century/early 2nd century CE). There were already rigorously set penalties under canon law for abortion in the 1st millennium. It may be that American Evangelical Christians will return to the moderate views about the issue that they held several decades ago, but it is entire possible that the "historical norms" that any Christian community might return to are the ones even further back in time.
- bryanrasmussen 8y ago
  When a fetus gives a rousing speech in front of a room of major political figures I for one will certainly take notice.
  - rtx 8y ago
    Crying in pain is not far off.
- dang 8y ago
  This comment badly broke the HN guideline against introducing generic flamebait into threads. The last thing we need is flamewars about abortion. Please don't do this again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

arethuza 8y ago

Frederick Douglass is mentioned in Sagan's superb "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark": "Frederick Douglass taught that literacy is the path from slavery to freedom. There are many kinds of slavery and many kinds of freedom. But reading is still the path." Also, perhaps my favourite part describing the reaction to a speech by Douglass: "His very appearance and demeanour destroyed the then- prevalent myth of the 'natural servility' of African-Americans. By all accounts his eloquent analysis of the evils of slavery was one of the most brilliant debuts in American oratorical history. William Lloyd Garrison, the leading abolitionist of the day, sat in the front row. When Douglass finished his speech. Garrison rose, turned to the stunned audience, and challenged them with a shouted question: 'Have we been listening to a thing, a chattel personal, or a man?' 'A man! A man!' the audience roared back as one voice. 'Shall such a man be held a slave in a Christian land?' called out Garrison. 'No! No!' shouted the audience. And even louder, Garrison asked: 'Shall such a man ever be sent back to bondage from the free soil of Old Massachusetts?' And now the crowd was on its feet, crying out 'No! No! No!' He never did return to slavery."

arionhardison 8y ago
> "Frederick Douglass taught that literacy is the path from slavery to freedom. There are many kinds of slavery and many kinds of freedom. But reading is still the path." I believe this same thing holds true for coding and the modern day African American ( of which I am one ). I earn 6x more than my father ( Fisk University / TSU - BS/Masters ), 3x more than my sister ( Yale / Columbia Educated Architect - BS/Masters ) and an even greater multiple more than the rest of my family - yet I have no college education. I truly wish more African Americans saw that coding is the new literacy and IMO a real path to freedom.
- swoongoonz 8y ago
  I talk a lot about this with my wife. She's half mexican-american, I'm a quarter so we compare notes. Not everyone has what it takes to code. I played the hell out of video games for hours and hours on end as a kid. I'm kind of a natural fit for sitting in front of a computer for hours, trouble shooting until I succeed. My parents, my siblings, my friends I grew up with... not so much. Not scientific, but I kind of think we won the lottery for brains and the personality to do the kind of work we do for long stretches of time.

bjd2385 8y ago

If I'm not mistaken, he is buried at Mt. Hope cemetery in Rochester, NY. I remember from my visits that he has two grave stones, each with a different birth date, because his real birth date is unknown. Actually, according to the Wikipedia article, "The exact date of his birth is unknown, and he later chose to celebrate his birthday on February 14. In his first autobiography, Douglass stated: 'I have no accurate knowledge of my age, never having seen any authentic record containing it.'"

extralego 8y ago

“Frederick Douglass is an example of somebody who’s done an amazing job and is getting recognized more and more, I notice.” — President Donald J. Trump, February 1, 2017

andrepd 8y ago
Such a way with words.