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I agree with you that the Republicans aren't going to do much of what I want. I don't agree that all politicians are Democrats or Republicans, or that it's poin

I agree with you that the Republicans aren't going to do much of what I want. I don't agree that all politicians are Democrats or Republicans, or that it's pointless to speak about issues where the parties in power aren't making good proposals.

timr 16y ago
"I don't agree that all politicians are Democrats or Republicans, or that it's pointless to speak about issues where the parties in power aren't making good proposals." I didn't suggest that it was. I just think that if we're going to have an intellectually honest discussion about the matter, we have to disregard most of the Republican party rhetoric: the poor are not the problem. The elderly are the problem. As far as I'm concerned, nobody is saying that out loud. The Democrats are just as guilty of pandering to their base (which is also elderly), but at least they don't hang the poor out to dry in a cynical attempt to distract attention from the real problem.
- mkramlich 16y ago
  I don't even think the elderly are the problem. I think Congress as a whole is the larger problem. And the structure of national elections, the existance/tactics of the Republican Party, as a close 2nd and 3rd.
  - jbooth 16y ago
    Different sorts of problems - the elderly are a financial problem - not because they're bad people for being old, but because their retirement represents a huge financial liability. The other problems you state are meta-problems - they're the reason we can't solve any actual problems. And possibly more concerning than actual problems.
- xenophanes 16y ago
  It's not the elderly's fault that bad laws make them expensive. Elderly people aren't a problem, bad laws are. Obviously poor people aren't the problem either -- personally I want to see far more immigration of poor people who want American jobs (yes I want rich immigrants too ofc) -- but inefficient govt programs like food stamps and unemployment benefits do cost a lot of money. The problem is the govt and its mistaken idea that redistributing wealth can help people. It doesn't. It destroys wealth. We'd all be way better off if they'd never done it in the first place, including the poor and elderly. (Now we have transition issues. We need to abolish it in a way that doesn't screw people who are relying on it.)
philwelch 16y ago
Nearly all federal politicians with a realistic chance of winning federal office are Democrats or Republicans, with the exception of one Socialist, and a couple Democrats and Republicans running as independents because they lost their primaries.

timr 16y ago

"I don't agree that all politicians are Democrats or Republicans, or that it's pointless to speak about issues where the parties in power aren't making good proposals." I didn't suggest that it was. I just think that if we're going to have an intellectually honest discussion about the matter, we have to disregard most of the Republican party rhetoric: the poor are not the problem. The elderly are the problem. As far as I'm concerned, nobody is saying that out loud. The Democrats are just as guilty of pandering to their base (which is also elderly), but at least they don't hang the poor out to dry in a cynical attempt to distract attention from the real problem.

mkramlich 16y ago
I don't even think the elderly are the problem. I think Congress as a whole is the larger problem. And the structure of national elections, the existance/tactics of the Republican Party, as a close 2nd and 3rd.
- jbooth 16y ago
  Different sorts of problems - the elderly are a financial problem - not because they're bad people for being old, but because their retirement represents a huge financial liability. The other problems you state are meta-problems - they're the reason we can't solve any actual problems. And possibly more concerning than actual problems.
xenophanes 16y ago
It's not the elderly's fault that bad laws make them expensive. Elderly people aren't a problem, bad laws are. Obviously poor people aren't the problem either -- personally I want to see far more immigration of poor people who want American jobs (yes I want rich immigrants too ofc) -- but inefficient govt programs like food stamps and unemployment benefits do cost a lot of money. The problem is the govt and its mistaken idea that redistributing wealth can help people. It doesn't. It destroys wealth. We'd all be way better off if they'd never done it in the first place, including the poor and elderly. (Now we have transition issues. We need to abolish it in a way that doesn't screw people who are relying on it.)

philwelch 16y ago

Nearly all federal politicians with a realistic chance of winning federal office are Democrats or Republicans, with the exception of one Socialist, and a couple Democrats and Republicans running as independents because they lost their primaries.