6 ms·

Not an expert in German legislation, but is this even legal? Seems like those people weren't convicted nor even suspected of crimes. I hope the victims fight b

Not an expert in German legislation, but is this even legal? Seems like those people weren't convicted nor even suspected of crimes. I hope the victims fight back and get adequate compensation.

Tomte 8y ago
Of course it is. Raids can also be at witnesses' places if it is necessary to get the evidence. Otherwise I'd simply stow the bodies in my friends' cellars.
- erikb 8y ago
  But for raids there needs to be reason. I think something like the second Iraq war cannot happen inside a legal system without repercussion, at least as long as the legal system still functions.
  - Tomte 8y ago
    Sure, but none of us have any information how this came to pass. So I limited my reply to the general question asked.
  - vuln 8y ago
    Nah you can drop 26 thousand bombs without ever being at 'war' https://www.cfr.org/blog/how-many-bombs-did-united-states-drop-2016 https://www.cfr.org/blog/how-many-bombs-did-united-states-dr...
    - erikb 8y ago
      I think it quite unlikely that police will come to your home and drop 26 thousand bombs. Just based on my own personal experience, tho.
      - mdpopescu 8y ago
        That is correct. They would probably use a single bomb. [1] [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=police+bombed+a+black+neighborhood https://www.google.com/search?q=police+bombed+a+black+neighb...
        erikb 8y ago
        > at least as long as the legal system still functions.
- radisb 8y ago
  Help me understand as I am not living in Germany: Authorities can search and seize property of any civilian without a warrant if said civilian is just a witness? If yes, then who decides and how is it decided that someone is a witness? If for example I happen to stand in front of my window and witness a crime being committed in the street, they could search my house without any consent or warrant?
  - Tomte 8y ago
    It is highly probable that there was a warrant. Why do you claim otherwise, have I overlooked such reporting in the article or elsewhere?
    - YouAreGreat 8y ago
      From the other submitted link[1], we learn that yes, there was a warrant, but limitations were boldly ignored: > The warrant lists specific items. This was not respected. Assuming that fact, was it legal? [1] https://blog.torservers.net/20180704/coordinated-raids-of-zwiebelfreunde-at-various-locations-in-germany.html https://blog.torservers.net/20180704/coordinated-raids-of-zw...
      - Tomte 8y ago
        Probably not in its entirety. But that discussion is pretty useless, since our version of the exclusionary rule is more toothless than an American could possibly imagine. Basically, everything found can be used in court.
  - lexapro 8y ago
    They need a warrant (unless there is imminent danger).
    - jarfil 8y ago
      Like the imminent danger of a 3D model of a nuclear bomb exploding. Got it.
  - 8y ago
- DoctorOetker 8y ago
  if it was a murder case, I'd agree with you, only time will tell?

Not an expert in German legislation, but is this even legal? Seems like those people weren't convicted nor even suspected of crimes. I hope the victims fight back and get adequate compensation.

Tomte 8y ago

Of course it is. Raids can also be at witnesses' places if it is necessary to get the evidence. Otherwise I'd simply stow the bodies in my friends' cellars.

erikb 8y ago
But for raids there needs to be reason. I think something like the second Iraq war cannot happen inside a legal system without repercussion, at least as long as the legal system still functions.
- Tomte 8y ago
  Sure, but none of us have any information how this came to pass. So I limited my reply to the general question asked.
- vuln 8y ago
  Nah you can drop 26 thousand bombs without ever being at 'war' https://www.cfr.org/blog/how-many-bombs-did-united-states-drop-2016 https://www.cfr.org/blog/how-many-bombs-did-united-states-dr...
  - erikb 8y ago
    I think it quite unlikely that police will come to your home and drop 26 thousand bombs. Just based on my own personal experience, tho.
    - mdpopescu 8y ago
      That is correct. They would probably use a single bomb. [1] [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=police+bombed+a+black+neighborhood https://www.google.com/search?q=police+bombed+a+black+neighb...
      - erikb 8y ago
        > at least as long as the legal system still functions.
radisb 8y ago
Help me understand as I am not living in Germany: Authorities can search and seize property of any civilian without a warrant if said civilian is just a witness? If yes, then who decides and how is it decided that someone is a witness? If for example I happen to stand in front of my window and witness a crime being committed in the street, they could search my house without any consent or warrant?
- Tomte 8y ago
  It is highly probable that there was a warrant. Why do you claim otherwise, have I overlooked such reporting in the article or elsewhere?
  - YouAreGreat 8y ago
    From the other submitted link[1], we learn that yes, there was a warrant, but limitations were boldly ignored: > The warrant lists specific items. This was not respected. Assuming that fact, was it legal? [1] https://blog.torservers.net/20180704/coordinated-raids-of-zwiebelfreunde-at-various-locations-in-germany.html https://blog.torservers.net/20180704/coordinated-raids-of-zw...
    - Tomte 8y ago
      Probably not in its entirety. But that discussion is pretty useless, since our version of the exclusionary rule is more toothless than an American could possibly imagine. Basically, everything found can be used in court.
- lexapro 8y ago
  They need a warrant (unless there is imminent danger).
  - jarfil 8y ago
    Like the imminent danger of a 3D model of a nuclear bomb exploding. Got it.
- 8y ago
DoctorOetker 8y ago
if it was a murder case, I'd agree with you, only time will tell?