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This is great news, but sadly their lives are still very much at risk. They are too deep to drill down to, there is a lot of rain to pump out (and the rain can

by dm319 8y ago

This is great news, but sadly their lives are still very much at risk. They are too deep to drill down to, there is a lot of rain to pump out (and the rain can continue), and they can't swim (even if they could, this is a hard dive for those that can). Found this from a Bill Whitehouse: Bill Whitehouse, vice-chair of the British Cave Rescue Council which is helping the rescue efforts, played down speculation the boys could be taught to dive. Speaking to BBC Radio 4’s Today programme he suggested they could be guided through the water in “packages”. Asked how feasible it would be to teach the children to dive, he said: “It is certainly not easy. The other alternative is that you literally bring them out in packages. In other words you fit them with diving equipment: a full face mask, instead of having a gag in your mouth like a lot of divers use; package them up; put the correct weights on them so that they are neutrally bouyant and are not going to get stuck again. It has been done before.” He also explained how the British divers reached the trapped group. They were diving upstream in the system so they were having to swim against the current, or pull themselves along the walls. Some of the cave is fairly constricted and other points aren’t. I gather the actual diving section was about 1.5km, about half of which was completely flooded and about half of which was open. They estimated that a round trip to where the party was and back again is probably about three hours. Whitehouse was sceptical about the prospects of pumping enough water out of the cave to allow the boys to walk to safety. He said: “They are trying to do that with pumping, but pumping a monsoon away is not that easy.”

draugadrotten 8y ago
As an experienced cave diver, I agree with Mr Whitehouse that bringing them out as "packages" should be considered an option. It would be easier than allowing them to swim by themselves in murky waters with no vision. The diving training spoken of might be getting the boys to be used to being towed under water while being packaged up, rather than about teaching them about buoyancy control like adult divers.
- A_Person 8y ago
  You can't be serious. Taking 13 people, with an absolute maximum of Open Water level training (if that), back out through hundreds (or thousands?) of meters of low or zero visibility diving, including (apparently) tight restrictions, without risking the lives of all concerned? Aint gonna happen - unless the water level drops to the point where they can just float back out.
  - cm2187 8y ago
    What I don't understand is that surely there must be a wide enough passage for them to have got in in the first place. It may be flooded but if one can walk into them vertically, surely they should be fairly accessible to a diver horizontally. Can't they just follow / be attached to a string or something like that?
    - ethbro 8y ago
      Current and silt, I imagine
    - danilocesar 8y ago
      Think about thin vertical passages. You can talk trough them easily but diving would be very difficult. I know nothing about that cave, but passages between caves can be connected by tight restrictions. They might have crawled they way up. And now that restriction is flooded.
      - wepple 8y ago
        Add a bunch of regulator hoses, fins, air supply etc to someone not used to having them attached and the gap needs to be huge to not snare a hose and rip a full face mask off. Even a semi experienced diver is far less aware of all their apparatus than a human who has been crawling around things since birth
    - CydeWeys 8y ago
      It's not logically following to me that just because it's easy to walk through a place it must necessarily be easy to dive through it. Diving is always significantly harder (you're wearing bulkier equipment for starters). It costs more energy to swim through water than it does to walk through air, the water has currents which you have to fight against, and the waters are murky so you have to go slow and can easily get disoriented.
amelius 8y ago
Can't they run an oxygen hose to the place? Or perhaps bring a bunch of oxygen tanks, which could be used until they figure it out?
- wlll 8y ago
  They are (or were) planning for the possibility of the group having to stay down there for months to allow the rainy season to pass, while being re-supplied by divers.
fjsolwmv 8y ago
Use indentation only for code, not blockquote > They were diving upstream in the system so they were having to swim against the current, or pull themselves along the walls. Some of the cave is fairly constricted and other points aren’t. I gather the actual diving section was about 1.5km, about half of which was completely flooded and about half of which was open. They estimated that a round trip is 3 hours.

by dm319 8y ago

draugadrotten 8y ago

As an experienced cave diver, I agree with Mr Whitehouse that bringing them out as "packages" should be considered an option. It would be easier than allowing them to swim by themselves in murky waters with no vision. The diving training spoken of might be getting the boys to be used to being towed under water while being packaged up, rather than about teaching them about buoyancy control like adult divers.

A_Person 8y ago
You can't be serious. Taking 13 people, with an absolute maximum of Open Water level training (if that), back out through hundreds (or thousands?) of meters of low or zero visibility diving, including (apparently) tight restrictions, without risking the lives of all concerned? Aint gonna happen - unless the water level drops to the point where they can just float back out.
- cm2187 8y ago
  What I don't understand is that surely there must be a wide enough passage for them to have got in in the first place. It may be flooded but if one can walk into them vertically, surely they should be fairly accessible to a diver horizontally. Can't they just follow / be attached to a string or something like that?
  - ethbro 8y ago
    Current and silt, I imagine
  - danilocesar 8y ago
    Think about thin vertical passages. You can talk trough them easily but diving would be very difficult. I know nothing about that cave, but passages between caves can be connected by tight restrictions. They might have crawled they way up. And now that restriction is flooded.
    - wepple 8y ago
      Add a bunch of regulator hoses, fins, air supply etc to someone not used to having them attached and the gap needs to be huge to not snare a hose and rip a full face mask off. Even a semi experienced diver is far less aware of all their apparatus than a human who has been crawling around things since birth
  - CydeWeys 8y ago
    It's not logically following to me that just because it's easy to walk through a place it must necessarily be easy to dive through it. Diving is always significantly harder (you're wearing bulkier equipment for starters). It costs more energy to swim through water than it does to walk through air, the water has currents which you have to fight against, and the waters are murky so you have to go slow and can easily get disoriented.

amelius 8y ago

Can't they run an oxygen hose to the place? Or perhaps bring a bunch of oxygen tanks, which could be used until they figure it out?

wlll 8y ago
They are (or were) planning for the possibility of the group having to stay down there for months to allow the rainy season to pass, while being re-supplied by divers.

fjsolwmv 8y ago

Use indentation only for code, not blockquote > They were diving upstream in the system so they were having to swim against the current, or pull themselves along the walls. Some of the cave is fairly constricted and other points aren’t. I gather the actual diving section was about 1.5km, about half of which was completely flooded and about half of which was open. They estimated that a round trip is 3 hours.