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Why does an older person cost more? Either they produce more, or they’re overpaid. The first type is definitely worth finding and paying... I’ve seen companies

Why does an older person cost more? Either they produce more, or they’re overpaid. The first type is definitely worth finding and paying... I’ve seen companies built solely by 22-year old script kiddies and usually the stack can’t scale. At that point, you’re in a trickier spot because a 40-year-old who can inject some good sense at the beginning of a project is a lot more abundant than a 40-year-old who can lead a turnaround effort on a fucked up stack while keeping the company and stack operational for existing customers.

pm90 8y ago
So this is a nuanced question and requires a detailed response. But the gist is that older folks don't necessarily cost more. I've seen many older folks continue to work as developers for most of their lives (albeit this is outside Silicon Valley). But for many older developers who continue on the technical track, they have accumulated a lot of experience building software and they do bring a lot to the table, in terms of design, or prescient thinking, or knowing the internals of certain stacks very very well. That kind of knowledge is certainly useful for firms that operate on scale, have systems that cannot tolerate downtime, and so on. In other words, it depends on the individual.
- kokey 8y ago
  More experienced developers are also more willing and able to take on a pre-existing production code base and clean it up and plan how to divide and conquer to improve, migrate and replace it, while younger developers often prefer to work on greenfield projects or want to throw out and replace existing work. Younger management doesn't always understand this difference, and more experienced developers might be contributing in avoiding a lot of costly mistakes but this benefit is mostly invisible. This is really down to what side of the tech industry it's happening on and what that side needs. Working with new web and mobile technologies delivering novel applications for consumers are more suited to younger people as opposed to say developing, maintaining and evolving systems for aviation, transport and military automation and safety or certain parts of finance.
gascan 8y ago
The catch is it's hard to measure & value the experience the older engineer brings to the table.
adventured 8y ago
> Why does an older person cost more? Let's take an example case where two engineers are working in a second tier city earning $85,000 per year in salary. One is 25 years old, one is 53 years old. The company covers the entire cost of the employee health insurance. The health insurance for the 53 year old will cost a minimum of 2x what it does for the 25 year old. The cost of health insurance begins to aggressively increase after roughly 38-40. By the time the 53 year old employee reaches 60-63 years old, the insurance cost is now 3x that of the 25 year old. The 53 year old will solidly cost an extra $6,000 to $10,000 in health insurance on top of that $85,000 salary, versus the 25 year old. The 60 year old might cost $12,000 to $18,000 more in health insurance. All of these figures are minimums, the numbers get much worse if you have a nice health plan. If you're in a second tier city paying your engineers $85k, $15,000 per year in extra cost buys a ridiculous amount of training to improve the 20 something engineers. If you have 20 engineers, over ten years the cost of employing all 55-63 year olds, versus all 20-30 year olds, could easily be a minimum extra of $3 million in just health insurance costs (with a total salary over ten years of $17 million). The more likely cost is far higher.
- old325656 8y ago
  You make a great case for why health insurance shouldn't be a part of compensation. A single-payer healthcare system is long overdue in the US, and might actually make age discrimination less likely.
- hoveringcto 8y ago
  Are plans really priced liked that? 4 years ago, I secured a policy (PPO) for my small company (15 employees in NYC) and they did not ask the age of any employee, just the total number. All people were covered at the exact same cost. The cost to insure an employee with a family was obviously higher, which is something younger employees often to not have.
intended 8y ago
Because older people have lives, children and more - coming in over the weekend is not an option. Spending extra time to "Show you love your work" is not something they care about. On the other hand that is something most American Techies in SV firms or on HN already are part of. Just sitting here on HN for so many years I know what it takes to look like an up and coming coder - and that is to breathe and live code. Weekend projects on XYZ project. Work efficiency on ABC tasks. Plus older people are not going to accept the usual promises of riches at the end of the rainbow, so may usually ask for better deals. ----- I think people are too quick to run from here to blame - Instead this is a systems/people problem. Theres certain cultural expectations of work culture in tech. There are also unending flows of graduates to tech. While this remains, this problem will continue. Firms are responding to the resources at their disposal and optimizing Should some magic new industry arise, which absorbs all the smartest minds in the world - you will see tech change.
- ggg9990 8y ago
  If you want to work fewer hours but don’t contribute more per hour, get used to working for less pay or being unemployed.
  - intended 8y ago
    I have a better idea - why dont I hire people for Jobs instead. Its your/their choice if you/they want to work on the weekends. I am not forcing them. Its just that promotions will go to the people who do. And if you don't earn more, and get that promotion - well how are you going to stay relevant in this industry or pay for that rent? I mean its totally your "choice", to effectively throw away your future if you don't play ball. Thats why we employers prefer young guns. They have that "go get em" attitude. Great cannon fodder. ----
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

pm90 8y ago

So this is a nuanced question and requires a detailed response. But the gist is that older folks don't necessarily cost more. I've seen many older folks continue to work as developers for most of their lives (albeit this is outside Silicon Valley). But for many older developers who continue on the technical track, they have accumulated a lot of experience building software and they do bring a lot to the table, in terms of design, or prescient thinking, or knowing the internals of certain stacks very very well. That kind of knowledge is certainly useful for firms that operate on scale, have systems that cannot tolerate downtime, and so on. In other words, it depends on the individual.

kokey 8y ago
More experienced developers are also more willing and able to take on a pre-existing production code base and clean it up and plan how to divide and conquer to improve, migrate and replace it, while younger developers often prefer to work on greenfield projects or want to throw out and replace existing work. Younger management doesn't always understand this difference, and more experienced developers might be contributing in avoiding a lot of costly mistakes but this benefit is mostly invisible. This is really down to what side of the tech industry it's happening on and what that side needs. Working with new web and mobile technologies delivering novel applications for consumers are more suited to younger people as opposed to say developing, maintaining and evolving systems for aviation, transport and military automation and safety or certain parts of finance.

gascan 8y ago

The catch is it's hard to measure & value the experience the older engineer brings to the table.

adventured 8y ago

> Why does an older person cost more? Let's take an example case where two engineers are working in a second tier city earning $85,000 per year in salary. One is 25 years old, one is 53 years old. The company covers the entire cost of the employee health insurance. The health insurance for the 53 year old will cost a minimum of 2x what it does for the 25 year old. The cost of health insurance begins to aggressively increase after roughly 38-40. By the time the 53 year old employee reaches 60-63 years old, the insurance cost is now 3x that of the 25 year old. The 53 year old will solidly cost an extra $6,000 to $10,000 in health insurance on top of that $85,000 salary, versus the 25 year old. The 60 year old might cost $12,000 to $18,000 more in health insurance. All of these figures are minimums, the numbers get much worse if you have a nice health plan. If you're in a second tier city paying your engineers $85k, $15,000 per year in extra cost buys a ridiculous amount of training to improve the 20 something engineers. If you have 20 engineers, over ten years the cost of employing all 55-63 year olds, versus all 20-30 year olds, could easily be a minimum extra of $3 million in just health insurance costs (with a total salary over ten years of $17 million). The more likely cost is far higher.

old325656 8y ago
You make a great case for why health insurance shouldn't be a part of compensation. A single-payer healthcare system is long overdue in the US, and might actually make age discrimination less likely.
hoveringcto 8y ago
Are plans really priced liked that? 4 years ago, I secured a policy (PPO) for my small company (15 employees in NYC) and they did not ask the age of any employee, just the total number. All people were covered at the exact same cost. The cost to insure an employee with a family was obviously higher, which is something younger employees often to not have.

intended 8y ago

Because older people have lives, children and more - coming in over the weekend is not an option. Spending extra time to "Show you love your work" is not something they care about. On the other hand that is something most American Techies in SV firms or on HN already are part of. Just sitting here on HN for so many years I know what it takes to look like an up and coming coder - and that is to breathe and live code. Weekend projects on XYZ project. Work efficiency on ABC tasks. Plus older people are not going to accept the usual promises of riches at the end of the rainbow, so may usually ask for better deals. ----- I think people are too quick to run from here to blame - Instead this is a systems/people problem. Theres certain cultural expectations of work culture in tech. There are also unending flows of graduates to tech. While this remains, this problem will continue. Firms are responding to the resources at their disposal and optimizing Should some magic new industry arise, which absorbs all the smartest minds in the world - you will see tech change.

ggg9990 8y ago
If you want to work fewer hours but don’t contribute more per hour, get used to working for less pay or being unemployed.
- intended 8y ago
  I have a better idea - why dont I hire people for Jobs instead. Its your/their choice if you/they want to work on the weekends. I am not forcing them. Its just that promotions will go to the people who do. And if you don't earn more, and get that promotion - well how are you going to stay relevant in this industry or pay for that rent? I mean its totally your "choice", to effectively throw away your future if you don't play ball. Thats why we employers prefer young guns. They have that "go get em" attitude. Great cannon fodder. ----
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]