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With EFF’s help, language teacher responds to threat over ‘invalid’ patent
- AdmiralAsshat 8y ago> Last week, we visited Congress and presented the ’358 patent to staffers there as an example of how important it is to maintain common-sense limits on patentable subject matter. The patent lobby—in the form of the Intellectual Property Owners Association and the American Intellectual Property Law Association—wants Congress to undo Alice through legislation. These groups are pushing to change the law so that everything is eligible for patent protection unless it is “solely in the human mind.” The ’358 patent shows what a disaster such legislation would be. It could make the patent system a kind of “super copyright” where people can monopolize ideas just by putting them on tape. What did Congress say?
- jessaustin 8y ago"Show me the money!"
- belorn 8y agoAn argument I heard from a profession in history of law is that countries measure innovation through the number of granted patents and uses it together with GDP to measure wealth. So long patents are used for that purpose it will be hard to get politicians interested in making patents harder to get.
- glitcher 8y agoWhat is that word or phrase for when the attempt to stop something ends up backfiring and instead causes that thing to get a lot of free press and therefore becomes much more widely used? I would love to see that happen here. I wasn't familiar with the Language Transfer project before, but will be trying some of their lessons now. EDIT: ah, I was trying to remember the "Streisand Effect"
- lukejduncan 8y agoStreisand Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
- kevin_b_er 8y agoThe "IP" lobby seeks to treat patents as indifferent from physical property. Casually granted and infringing upon the rights of others, their cause is a danger to your own free exchange of ideas.
- seiferteric 8y agoWow, simply using technology for some purpose should never be patentable.
- mc32 8y agoThis is the kind of work I like the EFF getting into, rather than when they stray into the political realm. Stay focused, serve the law (from the public’s perspective).
- danharaj 8y agoD-do you not think patent law is in the political realm?
- slphil 8y agoI think what he's trying to express is that patent law shouldn't be bound up in concerns of party policy. Once something becomes part of the polarization, it's over.
- bdowling 8y agoPatent reform is fundamentally about business interests, which are non-partisan. Some business want more patent protections, others want fewer. None of them care whether it is a Democrat or a Republican who makes their desired reforms. Groups like the EFF try to make patent law into a civil rights issue. They'll regularly frame the issues as being about big corporations misusing patents against "the little guy", often a sympathetic figure like the activist and language learning site admin here. They try to get ordinary people riled up about what patent law should be, often by misconstruing facts and simplifying current patent law, which can be quite nuanced. Actual patent disputes are always between businesses and always concern financial interests. There is always one party who doesn't want to pay licensing fees or wants to do something that the other party doesn't want to license. The businesses could negotiate a deal where they would all make money, or the allegedly-infringing party could "invent around" the patent, but for whatever reason they can't agree on how much money each of them should make and they decide that a lawsuit is a better course of action. In any case, some businesses will give money to the EFF and the EFF is happy to present views that are compatible with those businesses' interests. Everyone else is just taken for a ride.
- 8y ago
- spraak 8y agoTangentially related, I'd like to share what I have found to be a very effective and easy language learning tool: find an app of a television network from a country that speaks the language you're targeting. It's especially helpful when the app provides subtitles in the language (i.e. for the deaf). The best example I've come across for this is SVT Barnkanalen if you want to learn Swedish. There are also good apps for Norwegian and Danish, and for German there is Kika/Kikaninchen, ZDF and WDR. My child can speak really good Swedish and German from this technique. As a parent I decided that they would only consume non-English media, since we live in an English speaking country. I'm not militant about it, so there are occasionally things in English. I've heard of some parents saying their children would object to this, so it's important to start once your child becomes interested in media and you're ready to let them consume it. Also, it just takes being firm about it and also knowing that you're not harming them. Finally, I do speak Swedish and German, but only German somewhat fluently (which is helpful that I can navigate to help find the resources and correct grammar when I notice it) but my child already has a bigger vocabulary in Swedish and German than I do, and often knows more idiomatic ways to express something. Edit: You'll also want to use a VPN to access the app from the country its from.
- pasbesoin 8y agoI'd be interested in knowing more about specifically what apps those are. I speak German (I'm rusty), and have been simply absorbing some of the Scandinavian languages through purposeful viewing of some shows and movies (not through live streaming nor such apps). If you do respond (if not, no worries), I'm also curious how invasive -- or, hopefully, not -- those apps are. Rampant data monitors scrapers, or more "public service" type functions. I recall when some of these countries actively worked to promote their languages and cultures; a foreign student could get some nice resources just by asking or knowing where to go (e.g. a local Goethe Institute).
- spraak 8y agoSure! The ones I know of: Swedish - SVT for adults, Barnkanalen for kids German - ZDF for kids and adults, Kika.de and Kikaninchen app for kids I haven't tried it yet but there are some French networks (Zazou, I think) and NRK for Norway. Wikipedia is a good starting point to find television networks by country, then check which ones have apps or let you watch the programs online (just try accessing the site from the country with a VPN for the full experience)
- spraak 8y agoI'm checking out some of the Language Transfer courses on my phone and it reminded me of something so frustrating. I tapped on the Soundcloud link and it requires the app to be installed. Yelp does this too (you can't read full reviews without the app). I'm so glad that YouTube hasn't done this, i.e. I can still view YT videos in my phone broswer.
- phyzome 8y agoI just downloaded their MP3 torrent, which worked fine. The whole have-to-use-our-app thing is ridiculous, especially since there are so many web APIs that imitate apps.
- WalterBright 8y agoI'm beginning to wonder if copyright and patent protections have ever been of net benefit to the economy.
- manicdee 8y agoNo. In many fields you specifically research patents in order to avoid accidentally infringing on them. This is not stimulating innovation in any productive sense, it is forcing innovation where we find cumbersome workarounds because the way(s) to do a thing that work are patented and licences cost far more than they are worth. Want to build a web site that sells things to people? Right out of the gate you have Amazon’s 1-click patent to deal with. So you need to find a way to allow people to buy stuff that doesn’t violate the 1-click patent while also making it usable for people so they can actually buy stuff.
- erik_seaberg 8y agoSome inventors claim a novel solution that would have gone undiscovered for twenty years, and we benefit from those. But other "inventors" claim the whole problem, including solutions that any interviewee would have produced in twenty minutes. That's where examiners' incentives demand bad decisions.
- paulie_a 8y agoI am burned out by IP. I basically don't pay attention to it anymore. If I can watch/use/listen to it legally. Great. if I can't I will simply ignore the law and do whatever is easiest. I lost all respect for IP laws decades ago. I received a dmca notice recently, that went directly into the trash.
- innocentfelon 8y agoWow, EFF. I knew when you turned me down for an amicus brief, my only hope of staying out of prison, that it was you were too busy doing more important things. Then I see this. Invalidating stupid patents is obviously far more important to society than writing a little note to protect the accused against rampant government misconduct and technophobia. Who needs a sixth amendment right to confrontation, anyway? That’s definitely not what Gilmore, Barlow, and Kapor set out to do, but as I rot, at least I’ll be secure in the knowledge that patent abuse will not go unnoticed by the people I trusted in but who were too busy to help me.
- duxup 8y agoI guess I'll ask, what is your story?
- innocentfelon 8y agoCheck profile. Happy to answer specifics.
- duxup 8y agoJust from the outside the site seems a bit hysterical. Not something I would instinctively take seriously. You might want to add some outside, reasonable news articles or something.
- dbasedweeb 8y agohttps://casetext.com/case/united-states-v-channon-2 https://casetext.com/case/united-states-v-channon-2 Basically he was nailed for wire fraud and his defense was... exotic. Upon conviction he sought a writ of certiorari so that the SCOTUS would hear his case on some pretty weird grounds. http://mattchannon.org/petition.pdf http://mattchannon.org/petition.pdf At a glance it seems like a situation in which someone thought they found a technicality to enact what amounted to fraud, and are pissed that the law doesn’t work like a compiler. Their response is another “I found a bug in the code” move and again, the law isn’t working like a compiler. I don’t think making over five thousand accounts and returning tens of thousands of ink cartridges was really behavior that anyone could have thought was honest. It does seems like the government responded pretty harshly, but the system is rough. As to guilt, he would appear to be guilty, and his argument is that despite committing fraud, no one was actually hurt. That might even be true, but also not how breaking the law works. Edit: tptacek said it better: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16926663 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16926663
- duxup 8y agoIt is literally a thing "on a recorded medium"? How the hell do you approve that, ever?
- kodablah 8y ago> We hope Hodder and Stoughton comes to its senses and abandons its absurd demands. I understand there are limited resources, but if this is the only consequence that can be hoped for, there is no incentive to abandon anything.
- Freak_NL 8y agoThe condemning media attention from a respected party like the EFF may harm their reputation. It also ties up legal resources — they probably target people that they expect will fold to their demands due to the high cost of resisting them. Also, if the EFF is successful, the US patent office might use this as an example of frivolous patents that should never have been granted in the first place to resist the legislation mentioned that would make it harder to prevent such bogus patents in the first place.
- bdhess 8y agoIn the actual letter, the EFF staff attorney notes that the complainants would be on the hook for the defense's legal fees in the event that the claims are not abandoned and the patent is subsequently found invalid.