14 ms·

Lyft Follows Uber Into Bike-Sharing Lane, Buying Owner of CitiBike

171 points by bajaj 8y ago

godzillabrennus 8y ago
If they can offer these without the inconvenient docking stations it’ll be a much more popular transportation option.
- jaredsohn 8y ago
  The docking stations are convenient in some ways because you know where to go to find a bike and you can feel good that you're not leaving it in a place that is in the way.
  - lhorie 8y ago
    The one major annoyance I've found with them is that coverage is extremely restricted. In SF, coverage doesn't reach Fishermans Wharf, Golden Gate bridge or Golden Gate park. When I was in SF for tourism a few years ago, it was a complete non-starter even though at a glance it seemed like the most promising option.
    - jaredsohn 8y ago
      >in SF for tourism a few years ago, it was a complete non-starter That's intentional - http://www.sfexaminer.com/transportation-officials-halt-funding-ford-gobike-expansion-citing-rental-bike-conflict/ http://www.sfexaminer.com/transportation-officials-halt-fund...
      - lhorie 8y ago
        FWIW, it was also extremely restricted when I used it in Toronto. Coverage only went as far as middle of Korean Town, meaning you couldn't use it to go to, say, High Park. For commuting it was an even sillier proposition, because the coverage overlapped with the densest subway/bus grid in the city, and it was not much cheaper per month than a subway pass, unless you got a groupon for it.
        jaredsohn 8y ago
        It would be nice if there was more coverage but they have been expanding in the Bay Area over the past year. It is around $150 a year in the Bay Area right now which makes it very economical if you can take the bike instead of the subway or a bus (i.e. just replace six bus trips per month.)
  - entee 8y ago
    If the stations were upgraded a bit, I bet the docking stations could charge the E-bikes. That would make it especially useful to have docks, far less labor involved in manually charging bikes, the rider sets it to charge automatically!
  - donarb 8y ago
    All the bikes in Seattle (Lime, Ofo and Spin) are dockless and GPS tracked so you can find a bike anytime using their app.
    - jaredsohn 8y ago
      But that means you have to check your app; hopefully your phone isn't dead. Also, some days you might need to travel farther to find a bike. I realize there are also advantages to dockless (you don't have to walk the last bit when near your destination and maybe the bike is nearer to you when you start.) These are just some ways in which using a dock are more convenient.
  - Reedx 8y ago
    > and you can feel good that you're not leaving it in a place that is in the way. If only more people felt that way. But look at how many are too lazy/selfish to put away their shopping cart and leave it in a parking spot or propped up on a curb. Even though the docking stations are always close by in that case.
- aventrix 8y ago
  There is a quiet war brewing between city councils and dockless bike companies. It's tough to say whether cities will embrace a dockless bike/scooter future, or if they will ultimately ban the companies from operation, leaving a market for docked bikes to remain.
  - tunap 8y ago
    Quiet, perhaps, but visually egregious. Lime bikes are seen daily abandoned and often lying on sidewalks, on grass, in fields & even on street curbs.
    - ndespres 8y ago
      In my city, cars are parked everywhere, on the sides of every road, on sidewalks sometimes, now THAT is egregious!
      - 8ytecoder 8y ago
        A car parked on the street doesn't inconvenience me but a bike/scooter on the sidewalk does - every single day. I'm a cyclist myself. I do like the convenience of dockless bikes for drop offs.
        stellar678 8y ago
        Cars parked on the street are a huge inconvenience. They've just managed to formalize that inconvenience, and we forget about the fact that cars stole 85% of the street while people using their own feet are stuck sharing the other 15% with trash cans, telephone poles, and basically anything else in our public sphere.
        s0rce 8y ago
        Parked cars are always in the way, the ones double parked blocking the official bike lane are hugely disruptive and dangerous and the nearly permanently parked cars along the side block what could be actually effective biking and pedestrian infrastructure. Just because cars are parked on the "street" and this is the status quo doesn't mean its no longer an inconvenience.
- amyjess 8y ago
  In Dallas, dockless bikes are nothing but problematic. People have gotten in the habit of dumping their bikes on strangers' front lawns and laying them down on sidewalks without using the kickstand. There was a pretty public case of a blind man being seriously injured because someone left a bike just laying on the sidewalk. In retaliation, much of the citizenry has taken to vandalizing the bikes. There are pictures online of people throwing them into ditches and creeks, people sawing the bikes in half, people turning masses of bikes into impromptu art sculptures, etc.
  - panopticon 8y ago
    Same thing with the electric scooters in SF. I've even seen many vandalized scooters--including one that someone had lovingly taken a dump on.
  - adrianmonk 8y ago
    It seems like there's a lot of potential for self-policing in that regard. Just a few random ideas: 1. The bikes could have an orientation sensor that would require them to be upright before you can end your rental. 2. When a user picks up a bike, have them rate the appropriateness of how and where it was parked. Obviously, bad parking is not always the previous rider's fault, but if a consistent pattern emerges, you could penalize them in some way. 3. Dockless bikes presumably have GPS, so they could warn you if you're parking in an area that you shouldn't, if they had (crowd-sourced?) maps of what areas are good and bad. 4. If a bike is left somewhere that GPS says isn't good, offer other users incentives (free rental, etc.) if they will go pick it up. Basically this creates cheap labor to clean up messes.
- Tiktaalik 8y ago
  I don't agree. With permanent, known stations, a dock system can be more easily integrated into the existing public transportation network. This way the two systems can work together, and make the transportation of the region more efficient in general. These bike share startups should honestly all be to some degree folded into the public transportation network in general. It should be a mid to long term goal for buses, bike share and metro to be able to use the same public transport metro card. We've already seen many examples of this of dockless systems being a nuisance to businesses, local residents, and city governments. This is the sort of public service that doesn't make a lot of sense to be handled privately IMO.
  - entee 8y ago
    You can already use a clipper card to unlock a gobike in SF. It's how I do it all the time, and it's incredibly convenient. If only they had a station essentially every block or every other block; the one by my house is frequently empty.
  - majormajor 8y ago
    "Point to point" is a huge part of the appeal of cars over the existing public transportation network. We dedicate a ton of space to enabling point to point for cars, and barely any for bike docks and the like. Dockless scooters are the most effective thing I've seen yet - in very limited areas, so far - at starting to combat the limitations of the public transit network compared to the road/sidewalk/parking lot network. Bikes are too big to work well in this way, but scooters have done well.
    - karthikb 8y ago
      And yet in a congested city, the closest car parking may be 2-3 blocks. Not a huge advantage over bike docks.
      - majormajor 8y ago
        Two to three blocks is much less than the amount of walking I would have to do as part of a typical within-3-mile local trip using either local bike-sharing bikes or public transportation. That would be 6-10+ blocks of walking, and a transfer or two (in the case of bus or rail). So I'll drive or lyft, because that's a pretty big convenience/flexibility advantage, especially if I'm making multiple stops. But Birds are increasingly tempting because I usually see one within one to two blocks of my apartment.
dpflan 8y ago
Integration of services into one app would be a great experience. You could more effectively plan your route which may include a step of getting onto a bike or scooter before, between, or after a car(s). If that could be integrated into a single "experience", and then you add subscription, users' concept of movement around a city is now much smoother (fewer authorizing clicks).
- usaar333 8y ago
  Agreed. I'd personally rather see better integration being transit and bike share. "Taxi" + bike isn't that common, but either pair well with public transit.
aventrix 8y ago
How does the popularity of bikes compare to electric scooters? Anecdotally, I see a lot more Bird and Lime S scooters flying around than I do bicycles these days - and we do have docked bicycle and Lime bikes and Ofo options available in my city. Having tried many of these services, I find the electric scooters to be the most enjoyable, although the electric bikes are quite fun too and can be a better experience if you're carrying something which can be put in the basket.
- NorthOf33rd 8y ago
  Bird just opened in SLC and they are suddenly everywhere. Park City, just a few miles away, launched the country's first ebike share system and it's wildly popular. They are also everywhere. I have no hard data to prove this, though I'm sure it's out there- I don't think it's bike vs scooter, it's electric vs human powered that's driving bird's popularity over bike shares.
  - boxcardavin 8y ago
    I think you're exactly right. I'm a pretty hardcore cyclist and I commute 20 miles total every day but the number of people willing to exert massive effort for their commute is super small. My company is working on self-delivering shared ebikes and we recently made the decision to include a throttle because most folks won't ever be capital-B Bikers. The scooters have been a good lesson for us as they've highlighted the importance of fun and friendliness in a shared vehicle. I don't think any of the shared ebikes are coming close to the right combination of factors that make people want to ride them. Scooters have nailed it, but their big problem is how easy it is to copy the model.
    - NorthOf33rd 8y ago
      Thats interesting. Are you in the US? How are you thinking about the legislative landscape that seems to be eager to classify anything non-pedal assist as an e-motorcycle?
      - 8y ago
elvirs 8y ago
I wish they went after electric bikes or scooters. Not everyone feels like spinning pedals in the heat or cold after long day at work.
- kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
  E-bikes are motor vehicles and can't be used on bike paths in NY state though they are street legal if registered. NYC park police actively ticket E-bikes on the west side.
  - aventrix 8y ago
    Do you know if the restrictions apply to the electronically assisted "e-bikes". They pretty much operate like a normal bike, but require minimal effort to go up hills. Example: https://www.limebike.com/electric-assist-bike https://www.limebike.com/electric-assist-bike
    - kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
      The presence of a motor makes it a motor vehicle in NY. Electric assist bikes are no different functionally or legally from gas powered mopeds.
    - NorthOf33rd 8y ago
      ebikes are pedal assist bikes. If there is no pedal assist, and the motor can be activated with a throttle, then it's an e-motorcycle.
  - thelastidiot 8y ago
    I do know about this restriction. You can get your physician to write you a note stating that you need an assisting device for locomotion purpose and show this to the officer trying to site you.
  - entee 8y ago
    In California, I'm fairly certain that if they're restricted to below 20mph they're just fine in bike lanes/paths.
protonimitate 8y ago
How easy/possible would it be to re-purpose the existing bike docks into electric-scooter/ebike docks? I have a sense with all the city/public push back against Lime bikes/ofo/bird etc. the big players are looking to soak up turf in case the regulations prevent dockless from expanding.
- drb91 8y ago
  This only makes sense if there's essentially a dock on every block. I'm all for this, but I don't see my friends who drive relishing the 5% reduction in parking or whatever.
dawhizkid 8y ago
To be clear the SF docked bikes (soon owned by Lyft) has started introducing e-bikes as well
thelastidiot 8y ago
Lyft is doomed. They just can't keep up internally with what Uber is pushing into innovation. The boost Uber will get with their IPO will leave Lyft in the dust. Everyone needs an Avis and a Burger King I guess.
- vecter 8y ago
  Your username is quite apt.
  - jonthepirate 8y ago
    That's what everybody told me when I joined at a $800m valuation. Last I checked, uber took a down round an Lyft is 15b.
Spivak 8y ago
Can someone explain the economics of services like this? I just get the feeling that these bike-sharing services are running on a good sales pitch and a market which seems obvious but isn't really there. There are probably four or five competing services in my city and yet I have never actually seen a single person actually riding them. There are certainly people riding bikes but it's always their own bike. Complications I See: - There's a pretty narrow window between a distance that's too far to walk but impractical to hire a car. And since ride sharing is super cheap for this use-case it's a tough market. - It's useless if people are unfit to drive: injury, tired, drunk, etc.. - It's not great for going places with friends because it doesn't take a very large group before someone isn't fit to bike. Also, for 6 people each taking a bike is $24 for a 30 min ride. Any ride sharing company will be cheaper than that, you don't have to work, and you'll get there much faster than 30 min. - Everyone except literally the current user of a dockless bike is going to hate them so you're limited to where the company has docking stations. They're going to be the fastest vandalized property. - Anyone who's actually into riding bikes will just buy one. If you're going to be on them for an extended period of time you're going to want one that's light, comfortable, well maintained, and correctly sized for you. I would think these would be your loyal customers but it's exactly the opposite of what they want. - Technically you're not guaranteed a bike back from wherever you go. Although in practice you probably will since in all likelihood you're the only user of this particular service. - Your biggest market would be commuters who want to save on paying for a car/taxi/subway but people with regular destinations should reasonably just buy a mid-tier bike.
- tjr225 8y ago
  Here in Seattle I see people riding limebikes and Citibikes all over the place...it seems like a really popular service. I am really into bikes so I have multiple bikes of my own, but I don't believe I am who they are targeting to use that service.
  - dandr01d 8y ago
    There’s no Citibike in Seattle but I do see and use LikeBikes and Ofo bikes myself. They seem universally loved.
shmerl 8y ago
Hopefully they'll expand it to all areas in NYC.
- deminature 8y ago
  Dockless bikes are getting rolled out to non-Citibike service areas: https://ny.curbed.com/2018/5/24/17389414/nyc-dockless-bike-share-pilot-program-announcement https://ny.curbed.com/2018/5/24/17389414/nyc-dockless-bike-s...
  - shmerl 8y ago
    Interesting, but 200 bikes sounds like a drop in the ocean. How will it actually work without docking?
    - deminature 8y ago
      I think it’s just a trial to see if it’s chaos, and they’ll increase if not. The dockless bikes I’m familiar with from SF require you to bolt the bike to an unbranded city bike rack to end the trip. They also have the advantage of pedal assist, so it’s not terribly taxing to ride long distances or up hills.
CodeSheikh 8y ago
I thought CitiBike was owned by Citi bank.
- dpiers 8y ago
  No, they are owned and operated by Motivate. Citi has, essentially, bought ad placement - similar to putting your name on a sports arena.
  - 8ytecoder 8y ago
    To add to that it's Ford GoBike in SF - same company's.
- Liuser 8y ago
  They just place ads on it. Motivate runs a lot of bikes: Ford Gobike (SF), CitiBike (NYC), Biketown (Portland), Capital Bikeshare (DC), Divy (Chicago), BlueBikes (Boston), Cogo (Columbus), Nice Ride (Minneappolis),
- Willson50 8y ago
  From Wikipedia: "Named after lead sponsor Citigroup, it is operated by Motivate..."
cmjqol 8y ago
This kind of news reminds how much I need to stop fullstack development , and instead should create a random clone of a trending startups and sell it as quickly as possible.
- jaredsohn 8y ago
  Motivate was created in 2009.
- callumjones 8y ago
  Wouldn't you still have to do "fullstack development" to create the clone?
walterbell 8y ago
Do bike-sharing services provide data to their host city? To any other companies or partners?
- samschooler 8y ago
  Here is all of Ford Go-bike's data. https://s3.amazonaws.com/fordgobike-data/index.html https://s3.amazonaws.com/fordgobike-data/index.html
eiopa 8y ago
I'm based in SF, and I've taken over 200 rides with Ford GoBike (operated by the same company). It is awful. The bikes: big, heavy and ugly. Due to their sheer weight, peddling up the gentlest of hills will make you question your life choices, and consider other, much faster options, like walking, or just gently slithering around the pavement. Additionally, Motivate's chosen method of bike cleaning - a dude hosing them down - tends to leave the bikes drenched with ice cold water. I suppose the feeling of freeze gnawing at your body does act as a replacement for caffeine for some, but I find it very unwelcoming. The stations: Sparse, not well maintained, and honestly, an eyesore. They're this giant, lumbering object that takes away precious public resources, and is only available for Motivate's usage. You also constantly have to plan around them -- is there one next to where I want to go? Is it almost full? E-Bike deployment: what a joke. They are rarely available, and even you've spotted one of these precious unicorns, you'll often by greeted by a beaming red dot, indicating that the bike is unwell, likely due to the battery giving up in the middle of day. Other than that, the app spams you with ads, many of which are strangely enough for buying an e-bike. I thought this company is about bike sharing??
robotmay 8y ago
We had a bike rental system launch in Cardiff very recently, run by NextBike. It has been a massive success, and fills a pretty gaping hole in our city's transportation. Cardiff is basically entirely flat, and has a few separate parts (like Cardiff Bay) which are a not-inconsiderable walk away, as well as a strangely awkward train journey. It's a city pretty well known for being easy to walk everywhere, but the bikes have made it so much simpler. I signed up as an early adopter because 2 of the first 5 stations they installed essentially cut a 30 minute walk to the central train station into a 7 minute cycle. Cardiff was apparently NextBike's most successful UK city on the May bank holiday weekend. The bikes are largely well maintained and nobody seems to have vandalised them so far from what I've seen. Our cycle lanes are designed by blithering imbeciles, but that's pretty standard for the UK. The ones here have docks, though they're in sensible places. I have seen a dockless system in Oxford and that also seemed to work well, mostly because of the sheer number of bikes around. I know why the schemes are successful in Europe, but I can understand why people would be skeptical about their success in the US.
- rocketpastsix 8y ago
  Your mix of past and present tense makes me wonder if the bike share is still in Cardiff or not.
  - robotmay 8y ago
    I'm not sure where the problem is, where I'm using past tense it's for events that happened in the past. The system can be current but have been launched in the past.

171 points by bajaj 8y ago

godzillabrennus 8y ago

If they can offer these without the inconvenient docking stations it’ll be a much more popular transportation option.

jaredsohn 8y ago
The docking stations are convenient in some ways because you know where to go to find a bike and you can feel good that you're not leaving it in a place that is in the way.
- lhorie 8y ago
  The one major annoyance I've found with them is that coverage is extremely restricted. In SF, coverage doesn't reach Fishermans Wharf, Golden Gate bridge or Golden Gate park. When I was in SF for tourism a few years ago, it was a complete non-starter even though at a glance it seemed like the most promising option.
  - jaredsohn 8y ago
    >in SF for tourism a few years ago, it was a complete non-starter That's intentional - http://www.sfexaminer.com/transportation-officials-halt-funding-ford-gobike-expansion-citing-rental-bike-conflict/ http://www.sfexaminer.com/transportation-officials-halt-fund...
    - lhorie 8y ago
      FWIW, it was also extremely restricted when I used it in Toronto. Coverage only went as far as middle of Korean Town, meaning you couldn't use it to go to, say, High Park. For commuting it was an even sillier proposition, because the coverage overlapped with the densest subway/bus grid in the city, and it was not much cheaper per month than a subway pass, unless you got a groupon for it.
      - jaredsohn 8y ago
        It would be nice if there was more coverage but they have been expanding in the Bay Area over the past year. It is around $150 a year in the Bay Area right now which makes it very economical if you can take the bike instead of the subway or a bus (i.e. just replace six bus trips per month.)
- entee 8y ago
  If the stations were upgraded a bit, I bet the docking stations could charge the E-bikes. That would make it especially useful to have docks, far less labor involved in manually charging bikes, the rider sets it to charge automatically!
- donarb 8y ago
  All the bikes in Seattle (Lime, Ofo and Spin) are dockless and GPS tracked so you can find a bike anytime using their app.
  - jaredsohn 8y ago
    But that means you have to check your app; hopefully your phone isn't dead. Also, some days you might need to travel farther to find a bike. I realize there are also advantages to dockless (you don't have to walk the last bit when near your destination and maybe the bike is nearer to you when you start.) These are just some ways in which using a dock are more convenient.
- Reedx 8y ago
  > and you can feel good that you're not leaving it in a place that is in the way. If only more people felt that way. But look at how many are too lazy/selfish to put away their shopping cart and leave it in a parking spot or propped up on a curb. Even though the docking stations are always close by in that case.
aventrix 8y ago
There is a quiet war brewing between city councils and dockless bike companies. It's tough to say whether cities will embrace a dockless bike/scooter future, or if they will ultimately ban the companies from operation, leaving a market for docked bikes to remain.
- tunap 8y ago
  Quiet, perhaps, but visually egregious. Lime bikes are seen daily abandoned and often lying on sidewalks, on grass, in fields & even on street curbs.
  - ndespres 8y ago
    In my city, cars are parked everywhere, on the sides of every road, on sidewalks sometimes, now THAT is egregious!
    - 8ytecoder 8y ago
      A car parked on the street doesn't inconvenience me but a bike/scooter on the sidewalk does - every single day. I'm a cyclist myself. I do like the convenience of dockless bikes for drop offs.
      - stellar678 8y ago
        Cars parked on the street are a huge inconvenience. They've just managed to formalize that inconvenience, and we forget about the fact that cars stole 85% of the street while people using their own feet are stuck sharing the other 15% with trash cans, telephone poles, and basically anything else in our public sphere.
      - s0rce 8y ago
        Parked cars are always in the way, the ones double parked blocking the official bike lane are hugely disruptive and dangerous and the nearly permanently parked cars along the side block what could be actually effective biking and pedestrian infrastructure. Just because cars are parked on the "street" and this is the status quo doesn't mean its no longer an inconvenience.
amyjess 8y ago
In Dallas, dockless bikes are nothing but problematic. People have gotten in the habit of dumping their bikes on strangers' front lawns and laying them down on sidewalks without using the kickstand. There was a pretty public case of a blind man being seriously injured because someone left a bike just laying on the sidewalk. In retaliation, much of the citizenry has taken to vandalizing the bikes. There are pictures online of people throwing them into ditches and creeks, people sawing the bikes in half, people turning masses of bikes into impromptu art sculptures, etc.
- panopticon 8y ago
  Same thing with the electric scooters in SF. I've even seen many vandalized scooters--including one that someone had lovingly taken a dump on.
- adrianmonk 8y ago
  It seems like there's a lot of potential for self-policing in that regard. Just a few random ideas: 1. The bikes could have an orientation sensor that would require them to be upright before you can end your rental. 2. When a user picks up a bike, have them rate the appropriateness of how and where it was parked. Obviously, bad parking is not always the previous rider's fault, but if a consistent pattern emerges, you could penalize them in some way. 3. Dockless bikes presumably have GPS, so they could warn you if you're parking in an area that you shouldn't, if they had (crowd-sourced?) maps of what areas are good and bad. 4. If a bike is left somewhere that GPS says isn't good, offer other users incentives (free rental, etc.) if they will go pick it up. Basically this creates cheap labor to clean up messes.
Tiktaalik 8y ago
I don't agree. With permanent, known stations, a dock system can be more easily integrated into the existing public transportation network. This way the two systems can work together, and make the transportation of the region more efficient in general. These bike share startups should honestly all be to some degree folded into the public transportation network in general. It should be a mid to long term goal for buses, bike share and metro to be able to use the same public transport metro card. We've already seen many examples of this of dockless systems being a nuisance to businesses, local residents, and city governments. This is the sort of public service that doesn't make a lot of sense to be handled privately IMO.
- entee 8y ago
  You can already use a clipper card to unlock a gobike in SF. It's how I do it all the time, and it's incredibly convenient. If only they had a station essentially every block or every other block; the one by my house is frequently empty.
- majormajor 8y ago
  "Point to point" is a huge part of the appeal of cars over the existing public transportation network. We dedicate a ton of space to enabling point to point for cars, and barely any for bike docks and the like. Dockless scooters are the most effective thing I've seen yet - in very limited areas, so far - at starting to combat the limitations of the public transit network compared to the road/sidewalk/parking lot network. Bikes are too big to work well in this way, but scooters have done well.
  - karthikb 8y ago
    And yet in a congested city, the closest car parking may be 2-3 blocks. Not a huge advantage over bike docks.
    - majormajor 8y ago
      Two to three blocks is much less than the amount of walking I would have to do as part of a typical within-3-mile local trip using either local bike-sharing bikes or public transportation. That would be 6-10+ blocks of walking, and a transfer or two (in the case of bus or rail). So I'll drive or lyft, because that's a pretty big convenience/flexibility advantage, especially if I'm making multiple stops. But Birds are increasingly tempting because I usually see one within one to two blocks of my apartment.

dpflan 8y ago

Integration of services into one app would be a great experience. You could more effectively plan your route which may include a step of getting onto a bike or scooter before, between, or after a car(s). If that could be integrated into a single "experience", and then you add subscription, users' concept of movement around a city is now much smoother (fewer authorizing clicks).

usaar333 8y ago
Agreed. I'd personally rather see better integration being transit and bike share. "Taxi" + bike isn't that common, but either pair well with public transit.

aventrix 8y ago

How does the popularity of bikes compare to electric scooters? Anecdotally, I see a lot more Bird and Lime S scooters flying around than I do bicycles these days - and we do have docked bicycle and Lime bikes and Ofo options available in my city. Having tried many of these services, I find the electric scooters to be the most enjoyable, although the electric bikes are quite fun too and can be a better experience if you're carrying something which can be put in the basket.

NorthOf33rd 8y ago
Bird just opened in SLC and they are suddenly everywhere. Park City, just a few miles away, launched the country's first ebike share system and it's wildly popular. They are also everywhere. I have no hard data to prove this, though I'm sure it's out there- I don't think it's bike vs scooter, it's electric vs human powered that's driving bird's popularity over bike shares.
- boxcardavin 8y ago
  I think you're exactly right. I'm a pretty hardcore cyclist and I commute 20 miles total every day but the number of people willing to exert massive effort for their commute is super small. My company is working on self-delivering shared ebikes and we recently made the decision to include a throttle because most folks won't ever be capital-B Bikers. The scooters have been a good lesson for us as they've highlighted the importance of fun and friendliness in a shared vehicle. I don't think any of the shared ebikes are coming close to the right combination of factors that make people want to ride them. Scooters have nailed it, but their big problem is how easy it is to copy the model.
  - NorthOf33rd 8y ago
    Thats interesting. Are you in the US? How are you thinking about the legislative landscape that seems to be eager to classify anything non-pedal assist as an e-motorcycle?
    - 8y ago

elvirs 8y ago

I wish they went after electric bikes or scooters. Not everyone feels like spinning pedals in the heat or cold after long day at work.

kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
E-bikes are motor vehicles and can't be used on bike paths in NY state though they are street legal if registered. NYC park police actively ticket E-bikes on the west side.
- aventrix 8y ago
  Do you know if the restrictions apply to the electronically assisted "e-bikes". They pretty much operate like a normal bike, but require minimal effort to go up hills. Example: https://www.limebike.com/electric-assist-bike https://www.limebike.com/electric-assist-bike
  - kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
    The presence of a motor makes it a motor vehicle in NY. Electric assist bikes are no different functionally or legally from gas powered mopeds.
  - NorthOf33rd 8y ago
    ebikes are pedal assist bikes. If there is no pedal assist, and the motor can be activated with a throttle, then it's an e-motorcycle.
- thelastidiot 8y ago
  I do know about this restriction. You can get your physician to write you a note stating that you need an assisting device for locomotion purpose and show this to the officer trying to site you.
- entee 8y ago
  In California, I'm fairly certain that if they're restricted to below 20mph they're just fine in bike lanes/paths.

protonimitate 8y ago

How easy/possible would it be to re-purpose the existing bike docks into electric-scooter/ebike docks? I have a sense with all the city/public push back against Lime bikes/ofo/bird etc. the big players are looking to soak up turf in case the regulations prevent dockless from expanding.

drb91 8y ago
This only makes sense if there's essentially a dock on every block. I'm all for this, but I don't see my friends who drive relishing the 5% reduction in parking or whatever.

dawhizkid 8y ago

To be clear the SF docked bikes (soon owned by Lyft) has started introducing e-bikes as well

thelastidiot 8y ago

Lyft is doomed. They just can't keep up internally with what Uber is pushing into innovation. The boost Uber will get with their IPO will leave Lyft in the dust. Everyone needs an Avis and a Burger King I guess.

vecter 8y ago
Your username is quite apt.
- jonthepirate 8y ago
  That's what everybody told me when I joined at a $800m valuation. Last I checked, uber took a down round an Lyft is 15b.

Spivak 8y ago

Can someone explain the economics of services like this? I just get the feeling that these bike-sharing services are running on a good sales pitch and a market which seems obvious but isn't really there. There are probably four or five competing services in my city and yet I have never actually seen a single person actually riding them. There are certainly people riding bikes but it's always their own bike. Complications I See: - There's a pretty narrow window between a distance that's too far to walk but impractical to hire a car. And since ride sharing is super cheap for this use-case it's a tough market. - It's useless if people are unfit to drive: injury, tired, drunk, etc.. - It's not great for going places with friends because it doesn't take a very large group before someone isn't fit to bike. Also, for 6 people each taking a bike is $24 for a 30 min ride. Any ride sharing company will be cheaper than that, you don't have to work, and you'll get there much faster than 30 min. - Everyone except literally the current user of a dockless bike is going to hate them so you're limited to where the company has docking stations. They're going to be the fastest vandalized property. - Anyone who's actually into riding bikes will just buy one. If you're going to be on them for an extended period of time you're going to want one that's light, comfortable, well maintained, and correctly sized for you. I would think these would be your loyal customers but it's exactly the opposite of what they want. - Technically you're not guaranteed a bike back from wherever you go. Although in practice you probably will since in all likelihood you're the only user of this particular service. - Your biggest market would be commuters who want to save on paying for a car/taxi/subway but people with regular destinations should reasonably just buy a mid-tier bike.

tjr225 8y ago
Here in Seattle I see people riding limebikes and Citibikes all over the place...it seems like a really popular service. I am really into bikes so I have multiple bikes of my own, but I don't believe I am who they are targeting to use that service.
- dandr01d 8y ago
  There’s no Citibike in Seattle but I do see and use LikeBikes and Ofo bikes myself. They seem universally loved.

shmerl 8y ago

Hopefully they'll expand it to all areas in NYC.

deminature 8y ago
Dockless bikes are getting rolled out to non-Citibike service areas: https://ny.curbed.com/2018/5/24/17389414/nyc-dockless-bike-share-pilot-program-announcement https://ny.curbed.com/2018/5/24/17389414/nyc-dockless-bike-s...
- shmerl 8y ago
  Interesting, but 200 bikes sounds like a drop in the ocean. How will it actually work without docking?
  - deminature 8y ago
    I think it’s just a trial to see if it’s chaos, and they’ll increase if not. The dockless bikes I’m familiar with from SF require you to bolt the bike to an unbranded city bike rack to end the trip. They also have the advantage of pedal assist, so it’s not terribly taxing to ride long distances or up hills.

CodeSheikh 8y ago

I thought CitiBike was owned by Citi bank.

dpiers 8y ago
No, they are owned and operated by Motivate. Citi has, essentially, bought ad placement - similar to putting your name on a sports arena.
- 8ytecoder 8y ago
  To add to that it's Ford GoBike in SF - same company's.
Liuser 8y ago
They just place ads on it. Motivate runs a lot of bikes: Ford Gobike (SF), CitiBike (NYC), Biketown (Portland), Capital Bikeshare (DC), Divy (Chicago), BlueBikes (Boston), Cogo (Columbus), Nice Ride (Minneappolis),
Willson50 8y ago
From Wikipedia: "Named after lead sponsor Citigroup, it is operated by Motivate..."

cmjqol 8y ago

This kind of news reminds how much I need to stop fullstack development , and instead should create a random clone of a trending startups and sell it as quickly as possible.

jaredsohn 8y ago
Motivate was created in 2009.
callumjones 8y ago
Wouldn't you still have to do "fullstack development" to create the clone?

walterbell 8y ago

Do bike-sharing services provide data to their host city? To any other companies or partners?

samschooler 8y ago
Here is all of Ford Go-bike's data. https://s3.amazonaws.com/fordgobike-data/index.html https://s3.amazonaws.com/fordgobike-data/index.html

eiopa 8y ago

I'm based in SF, and I've taken over 200 rides with Ford GoBike (operated by the same company). It is awful. The bikes: big, heavy and ugly. Due to their sheer weight, peddling up the gentlest of hills will make you question your life choices, and consider other, much faster options, like walking, or just gently slithering around the pavement. Additionally, Motivate's chosen method of bike cleaning - a dude hosing them down - tends to leave the bikes drenched with ice cold water. I suppose the feeling of freeze gnawing at your body does act as a replacement for caffeine for some, but I find it very unwelcoming. The stations: Sparse, not well maintained, and honestly, an eyesore. They're this giant, lumbering object that takes away precious public resources, and is only available for Motivate's usage. You also constantly have to plan around them -- is there one next to where I want to go? Is it almost full? E-Bike deployment: what a joke. They are rarely available, and even you've spotted one of these precious unicorns, you'll often by greeted by a beaming red dot, indicating that the bike is unwell, likely due to the battery giving up in the middle of day. Other than that, the app spams you with ads, many of which are strangely enough for buying an e-bike. I thought this company is about bike sharing??

robotmay 8y ago

We had a bike rental system launch in Cardiff very recently, run by NextBike. It has been a massive success, and fills a pretty gaping hole in our city's transportation. Cardiff is basically entirely flat, and has a few separate parts (like Cardiff Bay) which are a not-inconsiderable walk away, as well as a strangely awkward train journey. It's a city pretty well known for being easy to walk everywhere, but the bikes have made it so much simpler. I signed up as an early adopter because 2 of the first 5 stations they installed essentially cut a 30 minute walk to the central train station into a 7 minute cycle. Cardiff was apparently NextBike's most successful UK city on the May bank holiday weekend. The bikes are largely well maintained and nobody seems to have vandalised them so far from what I've seen. Our cycle lanes are designed by blithering imbeciles, but that's pretty standard for the UK. The ones here have docks, though they're in sensible places. I have seen a dockless system in Oxford and that also seemed to work well, mostly because of the sheer number of bikes around. I know why the schemes are successful in Europe, but I can understand why people would be skeptical about their success in the US.

rocketpastsix 8y ago
Your mix of past and present tense makes me wonder if the bike share is still in Cardiff or not.
- robotmay 8y ago
  I'm not sure where the problem is, where I'm using past tense it's for events that happened in the past. The system can be current but have been launched in the past.