6 ms·

Felony Charges for 13-Year-Old Who Recorded His Conversation with School Admins

83 points by pwg 8y ago

handbanana 8y ago
This article is extremely biased and poorly written. I'd prefer to read something coherent with a more neutral tone vs an angry one. Sucks for the 13 year old - a felony charge seems extreme.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >This article is extremely biased and poorly written. To me it seems to represent the voice of reason (which, in this case should respond with incredulity and anger to the BS existence first, felony nature second, and application of law to a 13 year old, third -- and by a school official nonetheless). I'd take something with an angrier tone, like an appeal to fire the school principle and ban him from teaching for life.
  - dvlsg 8y ago
    You know, my first thought on seeing you use "principle" was to correct the spelling. I was taught to remember that one based on the mnemonic "the principal is your pal", but that seems as far away from the truth as possible at the moment. I agree with banning for life. This is absolutely insane. I really hope this case is just to point out how insane this actually is, but man.. That poor kid.
- WaxProlix 8y ago
  Truly, why can't we just get a balanced look at the many nuances of charging a 13 year old with a felony for recording audio on his cell phone?
  - scarejunba 8y ago
    Haha exactly. There's no balance here because the charges are outstandingly moronic. We can't seek balance in all things. Some things are just idiotic.
  - mhneu 8y ago
    While talking to a public official, even.
    - Someone1234 8y ago
      In a public place, even (reception area).
  - travmatt 8y ago
    It’s like nobody’s even bothering to list the positive benefits of pushing children into the criminal justice system.
  - handbanana 8y ago
    The piece is an angry rant, hence my comment
    - extralego 8y ago
      As it should be... and you should feel ashamed imo.
      - handbanana 8y ago
        Ashamed of what?
        Daishiman 8y ago
        Of deviating the conversation into a ridiculous, meaningless tone-policing thing.
        handbanana 8y ago
        It was an awfully written blog post, which I mistook as an article. I agree with the ridiculous assertion, given that I’m to be ashamed and the top reply to my comment includes the line “I'd take something with an angrier tone, like an appeal to fire the school principle and ban him from teaching for life.”
    - pwinnski 8y ago
      An angry rant is the only reasonable response to this asinine situation. It's the most civil reasonable option, since it doesn't include a call for violence.
- mthoms 8y ago
  TechDirt is not a neutral news source and they don't claim to be. It's a blog.
  - ddingus 8y ago
    There are no neutral sources. It talkes a lot of us, working together for a long period of time to approach neutrality. Today, on this short, for profit, news cycle, we have to use a lot of sources to get diverse bias and some reasonable grasp on scenarios.
- s2g 8y ago
  Why? There aren't 2 sides to every issue. What possible justification are you imagining for charging a 13 year old with a felony for recording a conversation with his school principals?
  - iamnothere 8y ago
    In cases that are so obviously appalling, like this one, covering the issue with an obvious slant contributes nothing. In today's outrage-saturated world it may even turn people away from reading your piece. State the facts (in an interesting/informative way) and let the reader fill in the blanks with their own opinion. This is how good writing works!
mhneu 8y ago
Wow. Prosecutors moved to prosecute a 13 year old for recording a conversation with a principal? Even after the IL state govt made it finally legal to record a conversation with other public officials (like cops)? So much for public transparency with local tax dollars that go to schools. Good article.
- busterarm 8y ago
  IL is a pretty crazy place.
- mental1896 8y ago
  It wouldn't surprise me to learn that the reason it's being pursued is because of how absurd it is--to finally put it to rest once and for all.
  - dev_dull 8y ago
    And unfortunately they’re using a 13-yo for their chess pieces. I have to believe there’s better existing cases which can be appealed to test this law.
Someone1234 8y ago
I always found the prevalence of law enforcement and criminal law within US schools odd in and of itself. Where I grew up, you'd get detention/expelled, in the US you get charged with a crime and an actual police officer will put handcuffs on little kids, little kids will go to court, and get a criminal record until 21. The whole criminal justice system in the US is incredibly unusual from the perspective of an outsider. For example, you literally put innocent people into a situation where they need to plead guilty for a shorter time in jail or to save money. Such as traffic courts where the ticket is less than the "court costs" (if you fight it). Or a plea deal of time served (Vs. spending longer in jail awaiting trial).
- mental1896 8y ago
  Trust me, it looks weird from the inside too.
- extralego 8y ago
  It’s disgusting. And the gutting of public school funding by Democrats and Republicans undermine any consideration of what is “right” or moral or healthy. School districts are discarding teaching degree requirements to meet spending goals all over the US. Of course kids are going to feel alienated. They absolutely are. And of course they will act accordingly. And now they will go to jail for it. The only solution here is voting for politicians who do not accept corporate donations. Vote another way and you are consenting to this behavior.
  - cannonedhamster 8y ago
    Citation for Democrats gutting schools? I've never heard of a single Democrat for cutting public school funding in my lifetime. That's a far right talking point driven entirely under Republican doctrine since Reagan. The Republican party stopped being a sane party once Reagan came in. Democrats haven't had a spine or a heartbeat since Carter lost by being honest. We do definitely agree on getting corporate and lobbying dollars out of government. I honestly can't believe that this is legal in a democracy and not illegal in the Constitution.
alphabettsy 8y ago
The prevalence of law enforcement in schools in recent decades is a troubling practice. Pranks, misbehavior and disruptions that were once handled in school with detention or other discipline are now referred to law enforcement where the system is absolutely not designed to teach or rehabilitate, but rather to punish. I remember students getting into fights and being sent to detention or in-school suspension together and afterwards things being fine, now schools are calling the police and students are being put in jail, sometimes never to return to school.
pressurefree 8y ago
USDA BEEF, FOOD COURT, SOUS-CHEF, HEAD-CHEF... the puighead law looks more like the 40-thieves these days... cost disease... the fight goes on...
reaperducer 8y ago
This is what happens when the criminals are in charge and get to write the laws. No, that's not anti-American hyperbole. It's just Illinois history. The law was created by crooked politicians to protect crooked cops, politicians, and their cronies. Corruption is a way of life in Illinois, and especially Chicago. It's ingrained in the system. There are dozens and dozens of books about it, and the reason that so many of last century's major journalists came out of Chicago. Whenever I hear people from New York or Los Angeles or pretty much any other American city moan about their politicians being corrupt, I laugh to myself and think, "amateurs."
s2g 8y ago
The administrator should be fired, the prosecutor should be fired, the kid should get an apology and restitution.
XalvinX 8y ago
When they say "prison" what does that mean in the case of a minor? Do they even have prisons for minors? Anyways, I can't see him ever being convicted of this...but I hope the ACLU or somebody will help him get decent legal representation...this could go pretty high on appeal eventually.
- soared 8y ago
  > Do they even have prisons for minors? Juvenile Detention ('juvie') looks pretty unpleasant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_detention_center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_detention_center
- alphabettsy 8y ago
  Yes, they have prison for minors. Quick search shows over 70k in juvenile detention at last count. Juvenile detention is just prison for kids, looks no different than adult prison to me.
  - XalvinX 8y ago
    There are prisons and there are jails and detention centers. I've been to jail more than once and jail is essentially 3-square-meals-a-day with library and exercise yard access and otherwise a softcore joke that just wastes your time. Prison means you could easily die, get raped, get beat up regularly, and has little in the way of fun and games. They are very different situations, at least that's what I was told by some of the people I met in jail who had been to actual prison. I seriously doubt they put kids in places similar to adult prison. If they do, the USA is just another shithole 3rd world country.............
    - alphabettsy 8y ago
      YouTube search ‘ juvenile prison’ and see yourself.

83 points by pwg 8y ago

This article is extremely biased and poorly written. I'd prefer to read something coherent with a more neutral tone vs an angry one. Sucks for the 13 year old - a felony charge seems extreme.

coldtea 8y ago
>This article is extremely biased and poorly written. To me it seems to represent the voice of reason (which, in this case should respond with incredulity and anger to the BS existence first, felony nature second, and application of law to a 13 year old, third -- and by a school official nonetheless). I'd take something with an angrier tone, like an appeal to fire the school principle and ban him from teaching for life.
- dvlsg 8y ago
  You know, my first thought on seeing you use "principle" was to correct the spelling. I was taught to remember that one based on the mnemonic "the principal is your pal", but that seems as far away from the truth as possible at the moment. I agree with banning for life. This is absolutely insane. I really hope this case is just to point out how insane this actually is, but man.. That poor kid.
WaxProlix 8y ago
Truly, why can't we just get a balanced look at the many nuances of charging a 13 year old with a felony for recording audio on his cell phone?
- scarejunba 8y ago
  Haha exactly. There's no balance here because the charges are outstandingly moronic. We can't seek balance in all things. Some things are just idiotic.
- mhneu 8y ago
  While talking to a public official, even.
  - Someone1234 8y ago
    In a public place, even (reception area).
- travmatt 8y ago
  It’s like nobody’s even bothering to list the positive benefits of pushing children into the criminal justice system.
- handbanana 8y ago
  The piece is an angry rant, hence my comment
  - extralego 8y ago
    As it should be... and you should feel ashamed imo.
    - handbanana 8y ago
      Ashamed of what?
      - Daishiman 8y ago
        Of deviating the conversation into a ridiculous, meaningless tone-policing thing.
        handbanana 8y ago
        It was an awfully written blog post, which I mistook as an article. I agree with the ridiculous assertion, given that I’m to be ashamed and the top reply to my comment includes the line “I'd take something with an angrier tone, like an appeal to fire the school principle and ban him from teaching for life.”
  - pwinnski 8y ago
    An angry rant is the only reasonable response to this asinine situation. It's the most civil reasonable option, since it doesn't include a call for violence.
mthoms 8y ago
TechDirt is not a neutral news source and they don't claim to be. It's a blog.
- ddingus 8y ago
  There are no neutral sources. It talkes a lot of us, working together for a long period of time to approach neutrality. Today, on this short, for profit, news cycle, we have to use a lot of sources to get diverse bias and some reasonable grasp on scenarios.
s2g 8y ago
Why? There aren't 2 sides to every issue. What possible justification are you imagining for charging a 13 year old with a felony for recording a conversation with his school principals?
- iamnothere 8y ago
  In cases that are so obviously appalling, like this one, covering the issue with an obvious slant contributes nothing. In today's outrage-saturated world it may even turn people away from reading your piece. State the facts (in an interesting/informative way) and let the reader fill in the blanks with their own opinion. This is how good writing works!

mhneu 8y ago

Wow. Prosecutors moved to prosecute a 13 year old for recording a conversation with a principal? Even after the IL state govt made it finally legal to record a conversation with other public officials (like cops)? So much for public transparency with local tax dollars that go to schools. Good article.

busterarm 8y ago
IL is a pretty crazy place.
mental1896 8y ago
It wouldn't surprise me to learn that the reason it's being pursued is because of how absurd it is--to finally put it to rest once and for all.
- dev_dull 8y ago
  And unfortunately they’re using a 13-yo for their chess pieces. I have to believe there’s better existing cases which can be appealed to test this law.

Someone1234 8y ago

I always found the prevalence of law enforcement and criminal law within US schools odd in and of itself. Where I grew up, you'd get detention/expelled, in the US you get charged with a crime and an actual police officer will put handcuffs on little kids, little kids will go to court, and get a criminal record until 21. The whole criminal justice system in the US is incredibly unusual from the perspective of an outsider. For example, you literally put innocent people into a situation where they need to plead guilty for a shorter time in jail or to save money. Such as traffic courts where the ticket is less than the "court costs" (if you fight it). Or a plea deal of time served (Vs. spending longer in jail awaiting trial).

mental1896 8y ago
Trust me, it looks weird from the inside too.
extralego 8y ago
It’s disgusting. And the gutting of public school funding by Democrats and Republicans undermine any consideration of what is “right” or moral or healthy. School districts are discarding teaching degree requirements to meet spending goals all over the US. Of course kids are going to feel alienated. They absolutely are. And of course they will act accordingly. And now they will go to jail for it. The only solution here is voting for politicians who do not accept corporate donations. Vote another way and you are consenting to this behavior.
- cannonedhamster 8y ago
  Citation for Democrats gutting schools? I've never heard of a single Democrat for cutting public school funding in my lifetime. That's a far right talking point driven entirely under Republican doctrine since Reagan. The Republican party stopped being a sane party once Reagan came in. Democrats haven't had a spine or a heartbeat since Carter lost by being honest. We do definitely agree on getting corporate and lobbying dollars out of government. I honestly can't believe that this is legal in a democracy and not illegal in the Constitution.

alphabettsy 8y ago

The prevalence of law enforcement in schools in recent decades is a troubling practice. Pranks, misbehavior and disruptions that were once handled in school with detention or other discipline are now referred to law enforcement where the system is absolutely not designed to teach or rehabilitate, but rather to punish. I remember students getting into fights and being sent to detention or in-school suspension together and afterwards things being fine, now schools are calling the police and students are being put in jail, sometimes never to return to school.

pressurefree 8y ago

USDA BEEF, FOOD COURT, SOUS-CHEF, HEAD-CHEF... the puighead law looks more like the 40-thieves these days... cost disease... the fight goes on...

reaperducer 8y ago

This is what happens when the criminals are in charge and get to write the laws. No, that's not anti-American hyperbole. It's just Illinois history. The law was created by crooked politicians to protect crooked cops, politicians, and their cronies. Corruption is a way of life in Illinois, and especially Chicago. It's ingrained in the system. There are dozens and dozens of books about it, and the reason that so many of last century's major journalists came out of Chicago. Whenever I hear people from New York or Los Angeles or pretty much any other American city moan about their politicians being corrupt, I laugh to myself and think, "amateurs."

s2g 8y ago

The administrator should be fired, the prosecutor should be fired, the kid should get an apology and restitution.

XalvinX 8y ago

When they say "prison" what does that mean in the case of a minor? Do they even have prisons for minors? Anyways, I can't see him ever being convicted of this...but I hope the ACLU or somebody will help him get decent legal representation...this could go pretty high on appeal eventually.

soared 8y ago
> Do they even have prisons for minors? Juvenile Detention ('juvie') looks pretty unpleasant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_detention_center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_detention_center
alphabettsy 8y ago
Yes, they have prison for minors. Quick search shows over 70k in juvenile detention at last count. Juvenile detention is just prison for kids, looks no different than adult prison to me.
- XalvinX 8y ago
  There are prisons and there are jails and detention centers. I've been to jail more than once and jail is essentially 3-square-meals-a-day with library and exercise yard access and otherwise a softcore joke that just wastes your time. Prison means you could easily die, get raped, get beat up regularly, and has little in the way of fun and games. They are very different situations, at least that's what I was told by some of the people I met in jail who had been to actual prison. I seriously doubt they put kids in places similar to adult prison. If they do, the USA is just another shithole 3rd world country.............
  - alphabettsy 8y ago
    YouTube search ‘ juvenile prison’ and see yourself.