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"...According to calculations that Zucman himself says are conservative, the missing money amounts to $8.7 trillion, a significant fraction of all planetary wea

"...According to calculations that Zucman himself says are conservative, the missing money amounts to $8.7 trillion, a significant fraction of all planetary wealth. It is as if, when it comes to the question of paying their taxes, the rich have seceded from the rest of humanity." A sobering reality...especially when you consider the ultra rich design and run the political systems that define the tax bases and laws the rest of the world are organized under...

hippich 8y ago
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/10/06/a-closer-look-at-who-does-and-doesnt-pay-u-s-income-tax/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/10/06/a-closer-loo... "A Pew Research Center analysis of IRS data from 2015, the most recent available, shows that taxpayers with incomes of $200,000 or more paid well over half (58.8%) of federal income taxes, though they accounted for only 4.5% of all returns filed (6.8% of all taxable returns)."
- olivermarks 8y ago
  That report is parochial research of onshore tax payers who are in the US system. The vast majority of the elites wealth is parked offshore
  - padobson 8y ago
    I agree with this. Folks earning $200k-$500k are paying most of the taxes because they have little-to-no political influence, and they're easy scapegoats because most people make less than them. This is the glass ceiling of the US tax code.
    - hippich 8y ago
      https://www.dailysignal.com/2017/10/18/rich-pay-fair-share-numbers/ https://www.dailysignal.com/2017/10/18/rich-pay-fair-share-n... "The top 1 percent of income earners, those having an adjusted annual gross income of $480,930 or higher, pay about 39 percent of federal income taxes. That means about 892,000 Americans are stuck with paying 39 percent of all federal taxes." Another source about who is not paying any taxes, and who receives money from government - https://nypost.com/2016/02/24/45-percent-of-americans-pay-no-federal-income-tax/ https://nypost.com/2016/02/24/45-percent-of-americans-pay-no... How much exactly should be top 1% be paying to no longer be blamed for not paying taxes?
      - padobson 8y ago
        I'm not sure how you interpreted my comment, but I'm partially agreeing with you. "Tax the rich" never works out that way, since it's mostly people at the very bottom of the upper class paying most of the taxes. The wealthy folks everyone gets in an uproar over don't pay any taxes, have the political power to avoid it, and even if they didn't, would be able to hire lawyers and accountants to help them avoid it. As a result, it's the people trying to claw themselves into the wealthy class that are most penalized by income taxes. Let's go to a consumption tax with some kind of cash prebate to make sure the first $10k-$20k of spending is untaxed, and dispense with income taxes that have largely failed to do what they were designed to do.
      - iamcasen 8y ago
        I think the argument goes, people who make 500k per year are well off, but they are not running the country. People with 100 million, 1 billion, or hell, 100 billion dollars are the people not paying their fair share. There is an undue burden on the middle and upper middle class.
        olivermarks 8y ago
        To put it in perspective Leona Helmsley (real name Lena Rosenthal) was worth 8 USD billion when she said 'only poor people pay taxes' in the '80's, and she was one of the little people herself in comparison to the global elites... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leona_Helmsley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leona_Helmsley
      - hawkal 8y ago
        This is a naive perspective, but, imagine someone has 10 million dollars banked, and earns 175,000 a year in dividends. S/he pay 26-35k in taxes (15-20%, cause I don't know tax code). Now, a couple has a combined income of 175,000 a year. They pay 40k in combined federal + FICA (used an income tax calculator). I think that 5-14k discrepancy is where the blame for "not paying taxes" comes from.
        rsync 8y ago
  - pembrook 8y ago
    This is patently false. I think you're confusing Big US tech companies with rich individuals. Long term capital gains taxes are 15% in the US right now. There is no need to park money offshore.
    - jandrewrogers 8y ago
      If you are a rich individual, you will be paying the 20% capital gains rate. 15% is the middle-class rate. And unless the government starts allowing people to deduct inflation losses on their investments (complicated), which can be substantial, long-term capital gains will always be at a lower rate than income taxes.
      - hippich 8y ago
        any more details on deducting inflation from longterm cap gains? or this is something "talk to your CPA" kind of stuff?
      - pembrook 8y ago
        I guess it depends on your definition of rich, a married couple is allowed up to half a million dollars in 15% capital gains. Not exactly “middle class.” If you and your wife took $1 million in cap gains every year you’d still only be paying 17.5% tax. Again, not exactly middle class. Also, we have no inheritance tax up to $10 million dollars. The idea that even a sizable minority of rich people are “hiding” their money abroad is not true. Especially with FATCA.
- tomp 8y ago
  rich != income-rich
  - hippich 8y ago
    It would be nice to be more specific then. I am, probably, a rich one. And such statements really hurts me after giving away a lot of cash to federal government. Money which I earned by living frugally (still am), working fulltime job + building businesses, and learning every day.

hippich 8y ago

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/10/06/a-closer-look-at-who-does-and-doesnt-pay-u-s-income-tax/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/10/06/a-closer-loo... "A Pew Research Center analysis of IRS data from 2015, the most recent available, shows that taxpayers with incomes of $200,000 or more paid well over half (58.8%) of federal income taxes, though they accounted for only 4.5% of all returns filed (6.8% of all taxable returns)."

olivermarks 8y ago
That report is parochial research of onshore tax payers who are in the US system. The vast majority of the elites wealth is parked offshore
- padobson 8y ago
  I agree with this. Folks earning $200k-$500k are paying most of the taxes because they have little-to-no political influence, and they're easy scapegoats because most people make less than them. This is the glass ceiling of the US tax code.
  - hippich 8y ago
    https://www.dailysignal.com/2017/10/18/rich-pay-fair-share-numbers/ https://www.dailysignal.com/2017/10/18/rich-pay-fair-share-n... "The top 1 percent of income earners, those having an adjusted annual gross income of $480,930 or higher, pay about 39 percent of federal income taxes. That means about 892,000 Americans are stuck with paying 39 percent of all federal taxes." Another source about who is not paying any taxes, and who receives money from government - https://nypost.com/2016/02/24/45-percent-of-americans-pay-no-federal-income-tax/ https://nypost.com/2016/02/24/45-percent-of-americans-pay-no... How much exactly should be top 1% be paying to no longer be blamed for not paying taxes?
    - padobson 8y ago
      I'm not sure how you interpreted my comment, but I'm partially agreeing with you. "Tax the rich" never works out that way, since it's mostly people at the very bottom of the upper class paying most of the taxes. The wealthy folks everyone gets in an uproar over don't pay any taxes, have the political power to avoid it, and even if they didn't, would be able to hire lawyers and accountants to help them avoid it. As a result, it's the people trying to claw themselves into the wealthy class that are most penalized by income taxes. Let's go to a consumption tax with some kind of cash prebate to make sure the first $10k-$20k of spending is untaxed, and dispense with income taxes that have largely failed to do what they were designed to do.
    - iamcasen 8y ago
      I think the argument goes, people who make 500k per year are well off, but they are not running the country. People with 100 million, 1 billion, or hell, 100 billion dollars are the people not paying their fair share. There is an undue burden on the middle and upper middle class.
      - olivermarks 8y ago
        To put it in perspective Leona Helmsley (real name Lena Rosenthal) was worth 8 USD billion when she said 'only poor people pay taxes' in the '80's, and she was one of the little people herself in comparison to the global elites... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leona_Helmsley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leona_Helmsley
    - hawkal 8y ago
      This is a naive perspective, but, imagine someone has 10 million dollars banked, and earns 175,000 a year in dividends. S/he pay 26-35k in taxes (15-20%, cause I don't know tax code). Now, a couple has a combined income of 175,000 a year. They pay 40k in combined federal + FICA (used an income tax calculator). I think that 5-14k discrepancy is where the blame for "not paying taxes" comes from.
      - rsync 8y ago
- pembrook 8y ago
  This is patently false. I think you're confusing Big US tech companies with rich individuals. Long term capital gains taxes are 15% in the US right now. There is no need to park money offshore.
  - jandrewrogers 8y ago
    If you are a rich individual, you will be paying the 20% capital gains rate. 15% is the middle-class rate. And unless the government starts allowing people to deduct inflation losses on their investments (complicated), which can be substantial, long-term capital gains will always be at a lower rate than income taxes.
    - hippich 8y ago
      any more details on deducting inflation from longterm cap gains? or this is something "talk to your CPA" kind of stuff?
    - pembrook 8y ago
      I guess it depends on your definition of rich, a married couple is allowed up to half a million dollars in 15% capital gains. Not exactly “middle class.” If you and your wife took $1 million in cap gains every year you’d still only be paying 17.5% tax. Again, not exactly middle class. Also, we have no inheritance tax up to $10 million dollars. The idea that even a sizable minority of rich people are “hiding” their money abroad is not true. Especially with FATCA.
tomp 8y ago
rich != income-rich
- hippich 8y ago
  It would be nice to be more specific then. I am, probably, a rich one. And such statements really hurts me after giving away a lot of cash to federal government. Money which I earned by living frugally (still am), working fulltime job + building businesses, and learning every day.