6 ms·

This is pretty much how I was raised in a small midwestern farming community. I was in charge of the laundry by the time I was 6, and the lawn when I was 8 or 9

This is pretty much how I was raised in a small midwestern farming community. I was in charge of the laundry by the time I was 6, and the lawn when I was 8 or 9, and summers were pretty much filled with activities that my friends and I could organize. Moving to the burbs where play was organized sports and kids had everything done for them was a really big shock. It was hard to believe how inept at life most of my peers were when I went off to University. They only things they knew were what was on tv or from school.

lgregg 8y ago
I can relate, I was born/grew up overseas and was raised this way before my parents moved back to the states. I moved back with them, and it was surprising how little my friends had in life skills. I had learned to cook (from watching/learning) already and would cook for myself after school for example, while most of my friends would have zero ideas on what to do. It's sad how the U.S. Government prevents native American kids to have this experience in populated areas. There's a cultural vibe of individualism preventing overwatch of kids by adults which has led, in part, to the prohibitive autonomy that I had as a kid. I was told by my mom that at the age of 4 years old, I hailed a taxi cab alone in the Philippines while she went to the bathroom in a McDonalds. That would never happen here in America.
- microcolonel 8y ago
  Not really sure about your terms here, you seem to be glorifying individualism in practice, but blaming it in name? What could be more individualistic than doing something on your own?
  - lgregg 8y ago
    I disagree, I'm glorifying autonomy in relation to self-determination theory but critiquing individualism as a cultural ideology or orientation. I used different words because I wasn't expecting a response like yours. If you want a deep dive, this is a good paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12518973 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12518973
    - microcolonel 8y ago
      Could you explain your distinction in plain English? Virtually nobody on this planet is entitled to read your source without shelling out a nontrivial amount of money, you haven't given a "shallow dive", so I have no interest in a deep one. I can accept that you make a distinction, but to me the beginning and end of individualism is respect for individual autonomy, and I suspect that a lot of English literates would agree.
      - lgregg 8y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17443985 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17443985
  - grasshopperpurp 8y ago
    This reply, a little further up, should clarify the OP's point. https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=17437151&goto=item%3Fid%3D17435671%2317437151 https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=17437151&goto=item%3Fi...
- mos_basik 8y ago
  >There's a cultural vibe of individualism [where?] preventing overwatch of kids [whose kids?] by adults which has led, in part, to the prohibitive [prohibiting what?] autonomy that I had as a kid. I don't quite understand what you're saying here, but I'm genuinely interested. Could you clarify? Active listening: What I thought you said is that in, say, the Philippines, there is a culture of individualism that prevents adults from hovering over kids (not sure how that follows), which leads to the kids having significantly more autonomy than in the U.S. (and maybe you used the word "prohibitive" incorrectly?). I was also raised by American parents in a village in equatorial Congo--thus my interest.
  - Swizec 8y ago
    My interpreta is that in many other countries there is a sense of collectivism in that everyone takes care of children and collaborates a little bit. If you see a kid, you don’t think something must be wrong, you lend assistance to their parents by being an impromptu guardian and help the kid achieve their means. Whereas in the US the modus operandi is “Well it’s not my kid what do I care? Their parents must be terrible people for not standing right next to them” For example, as a 7 year old in eastern-ish europe, I would walk 1km to school on my own every morning. The worst that ever happened was when me and a friend decided that umbrellas arr the perfect snow shovel.
    - johnchristopher 8y ago
      Anecdote: in Belgium, everything changed after the Marc Dutroux case. Teenage girl friends of mine who worked summer jobs as youth camp workers told me they were anxious to bear children in arms or being seen too close to them. Same reasoning with letting children walking alone to school.
      - hyperman1 8y ago
        Seconded. Teachers of teenagers dont dare to be alone with 1 child anymore. The smallest of hints might cause years of misery and job loss. This at an age where the children can be real assholes, and they know their powers.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- noobermin 8y ago
  I don't think the US Government does this more than it is the culture generally. You'll find a difference the kids of wealthy parents find in terms of control in their lives vs. kids in poorer circumstances.
koolba 8y ago
People naturally rise to their responsibilities, whether it’s work or basic life skills. Like learning a language, it come more naturally to children as there’s to no second guessing the difficulty of the undertaking nor the fear of failing at a task.
technofiend 8y ago
This is meant as parody of course but your comment reminded me of South Park's portrayal of that method: https://youtu.be/MBEfHZITrgo https://youtu.be/MBEfHZITrgo As someone who grew up with zero structure and seeing my wife who came from a very strict background I hope if we ever do have kids we'll land in the middle somewhere.
- itronitron 8y ago
  A lot of that will depend on the circumstances of the birth of your children and how close they come to dying within their first 6 months.
emit_time 8y ago
To the contrary, I didn't have a ton of responsibilities at home, some chores but not too many. My parents put a premium on schoolwork and grades. I did just fine living on campus freshman year (just under four years ago now). I don't think things are inherently that complicated. Maybe I had more exposure than I think, but in the age of the internet, it's pretty easy to figure things out.

lgregg 8y ago

I can relate, I was born/grew up overseas and was raised this way before my parents moved back to the states. I moved back with them, and it was surprising how little my friends had in life skills. I had learned to cook (from watching/learning) already and would cook for myself after school for example, while most of my friends would have zero ideas on what to do. It's sad how the U.S. Government prevents native American kids to have this experience in populated areas. There's a cultural vibe of individualism preventing overwatch of kids by adults which has led, in part, to the prohibitive autonomy that I had as a kid. I was told by my mom that at the age of 4 years old, I hailed a taxi cab alone in the Philippines while she went to the bathroom in a McDonalds. That would never happen here in America.

microcolonel 8y ago
Not really sure about your terms here, you seem to be glorifying individualism in practice, but blaming it in name? What could be more individualistic than doing something on your own?
- lgregg 8y ago
  I disagree, I'm glorifying autonomy in relation to self-determination theory but critiquing individualism as a cultural ideology or orientation. I used different words because I wasn't expecting a response like yours. If you want a deep dive, this is a good paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12518973 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12518973
  - microcolonel 8y ago
    Could you explain your distinction in plain English? Virtually nobody on this planet is entitled to read your source without shelling out a nontrivial amount of money, you haven't given a "shallow dive", so I have no interest in a deep one. I can accept that you make a distinction, but to me the beginning and end of individualism is respect for individual autonomy, and I suspect that a lot of English literates would agree.
    - lgregg 8y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17443985 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17443985
- grasshopperpurp 8y ago
  This reply, a little further up, should clarify the OP's point. https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=17437151&goto=item%3Fid%3D17435671%2317437151 https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=17437151&goto=item%3Fi...
mos_basik 8y ago
>There's a cultural vibe of individualism [where?] preventing overwatch of kids [whose kids?] by adults which has led, in part, to the prohibitive [prohibiting what?] autonomy that I had as a kid. I don't quite understand what you're saying here, but I'm genuinely interested. Could you clarify? Active listening: What I thought you said is that in, say, the Philippines, there is a culture of individualism that prevents adults from hovering over kids (not sure how that follows), which leads to the kids having significantly more autonomy than in the U.S. (and maybe you used the word "prohibitive" incorrectly?). I was also raised by American parents in a village in equatorial Congo--thus my interest.
- Swizec 8y ago
  My interpreta is that in many other countries there is a sense of collectivism in that everyone takes care of children and collaborates a little bit. If you see a kid, you don’t think something must be wrong, you lend assistance to their parents by being an impromptu guardian and help the kid achieve their means. Whereas in the US the modus operandi is “Well it’s not my kid what do I care? Their parents must be terrible people for not standing right next to them” For example, as a 7 year old in eastern-ish europe, I would walk 1km to school on my own every morning. The worst that ever happened was when me and a friend decided that umbrellas arr the perfect snow shovel.
  - johnchristopher 8y ago
    Anecdote: in Belgium, everything changed after the Marc Dutroux case. Teenage girl friends of mine who worked summer jobs as youth camp workers told me they were anxious to bear children in arms or being seen too close to them. Same reasoning with letting children walking alone to school.
    - hyperman1 8y ago
      Seconded. Teachers of teenagers dont dare to be alone with 1 child anymore. The smallest of hints might cause years of misery and job loss. This at an age where the children can be real assholes, and they know their powers.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
noobermin 8y ago
I don't think the US Government does this more than it is the culture generally. You'll find a difference the kids of wealthy parents find in terms of control in their lives vs. kids in poorer circumstances.

koolba 8y ago

People naturally rise to their responsibilities, whether it’s work or basic life skills. Like learning a language, it come more naturally to children as there’s to no second guessing the difficulty of the undertaking nor the fear of failing at a task.

technofiend 8y ago

This is meant as parody of course but your comment reminded me of South Park's portrayal of that method: https://youtu.be/MBEfHZITrgo https://youtu.be/MBEfHZITrgo As someone who grew up with zero structure and seeing my wife who came from a very strict background I hope if we ever do have kids we'll land in the middle somewhere.

itronitron 8y ago
A lot of that will depend on the circumstances of the birth of your children and how close they come to dying within their first 6 months.

emit_time 8y ago

To the contrary, I didn't have a ton of responsibilities at home, some chores but not too many. My parents put a premium on schoolwork and grades. I did just fine living on campus freshman year (just under four years ago now). I don't think things are inherently that complicated. Maybe I had more exposure than I think, but in the age of the internet, it's pretty easy to figure things out.