4 ms·

I always understood it as avoiding a complete dependency on Google, since (some form of) Maps is a must-have feature for any modern smartphone. After the Schmi

by biztos 8y ago

I always understood it as avoiding a complete dependency on Google, since (some form of) Maps is a must-have feature for any modern smartphone. After the Schmidt/Android thing I think the Apple leadership basically assumed Google would screw them over sooner or later if they could.

s3r3nity 8y ago
This. So many folks (myself included) rely on our phones for GPS & navigation, and having the UX for that be monopolized by one player is leaving a huge use case for your phone in the hands of your biggest competitor. I think Apple has the opportunity to make a very unique & compelling experience, with their deep integration with the OS that they don't offer to outside developers. Though we'll see if they can actually execute.
- amelius 8y ago
  > and having the UX for that be monopolized by one player is leaving a huge use case for your phone in the hands of your biggest competitor. This makes me wonder: where is "Apple search"?
  - swaroop 8y ago
    It's called Siri and Spotlight :) For example, see Safari Suggestions - https://imgur.com/a/uyd20c6 https://imgur.com/a/uyd20c6
    - amelius 8y ago
      That would be true if Siri and Spotlight were the main entry-point for users to start a web search, and I doubt that.
      - saagarjha 8y ago
        For many Safari users, it is the the main entry-point for searches.
      - mattnewton 8y ago
        It’s already a common user behavior to type your query right into the address bar, and that’s where this is in Safari. Spotlight is just the (confusing imo) branding
        JadeNB 8y ago
        > Spotlight is just the (confusing imo) branding Wait, isn't Spotlight the name for Apple's local search (and maybe it's now used for whatever kind of unified search iOS likes to do?), whereas Safari's feature of treating things entered into the address bar that don't look like URLs as search queries is just a common redirection feature (analogous to the Firefox Awesomebar/Omnibar/whatever it's called now) that has nothing in particular to do with Spotlight?
    - JadeNB 8y ago
      Doesn't your screenshot show that these Safari Suggestions are powered by Google?
  - _ph_ 8y ago
    There are other big search engines beyond Google. And currently Google pays Apple quite a bit of money to stay the main search engine on Safari. But I would be very suprised, if Apple had not a team working on search algorithms, so they could start a search engine of their own, if the need is there.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Apple wouldn't do search to go head on with Google. Apple's search would be very specific to the domains that it cares about businesses for Maps, music, movies, etc.
    - john_minsk 8y ago
      And yet, any search on Apple devices is super weak
      - scarface74 8y ago
        Siri search works well enough within the domains that it does directly -- restaurants (integrated with Yelp), locations, movies, movies, tv shows, sports, etc. Anything it can't do directly it punts to Bing.
  - s3r3nity 8y ago
    Search in general is _hard._ But vertical specific searches & use cases can be tackled by different apps. I would argue that my pushing for more prolific relationships with developers, you sort of chip away at this competitive threat with more specific, vertical-oriented searching experiences. Example: I'm searching for restaurants nearby, I _could_ open Google, or I could leverage the Yelp/OpenTables of the app store. Same thing for travel - flights, hotels, etc. all have apps that could, in theory, better serve the user than the catch-all "Google Search" app. Maps is a slightly different beast; it's almost as ubiquitous as the "Phone" app itself .
ajross 8y ago
> After the Schmidt/Android thing I think the Apple leadership basically assumed Google would screw them over sooner or later if they could. That's a level of moralizing that isn't really appropriate for analyzing decisions like this. It's equally true, and for essentially the same reasons, that Android as a whole exists because the Google leadership basically assumed Apple would screw them over sooner or later if they could. Businesses compete, basically. It's a good thing and the efficiencies that result make us all wealthier. It's only "screwing someone over" in the myopic eyes of the internet fan boi.
- redial 8y ago
  > t's equally true, and for essentially the same reasons, that Android as a whole exists because the Google leadership basically assumed Apple would screw them over sooner or later if they could. That is the whole reason. Same with Chrome.
r00fus 8y ago
> Apple leadership basically assumed Google would screw them over sooner or later if they could. This should be the default assumption for any relationship - doubly so when corporations or big $$ is involved. That's why we have legal paperwork even for inter-family agreements - your Mom & Pop may love you now but in 20y when dementia sets it, that may be out the window (or Mom dies, Pop remarries and Step-Mom hates your guts, etc etc).

by biztos 8y ago

s3r3nity 8y ago

This. So many folks (myself included) rely on our phones for GPS & navigation, and having the UX for that be monopolized by one player is leaving a huge use case for your phone in the hands of your biggest competitor. I think Apple has the opportunity to make a very unique & compelling experience, with their deep integration with the OS that they don't offer to outside developers. Though we'll see if they can actually execute.

amelius 8y ago
> and having the UX for that be monopolized by one player is leaving a huge use case for your phone in the hands of your biggest competitor. This makes me wonder: where is "Apple search"?
- swaroop 8y ago
  It's called Siri and Spotlight :) For example, see Safari Suggestions - https://imgur.com/a/uyd20c6 https://imgur.com/a/uyd20c6
  - amelius 8y ago
    That would be true if Siri and Spotlight were the main entry-point for users to start a web search, and I doubt that.
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      For many Safari users, it is the the main entry-point for searches.
    - mattnewton 8y ago
      It’s already a common user behavior to type your query right into the address bar, and that’s where this is in Safari. Spotlight is just the (confusing imo) branding
      - JadeNB 8y ago
        > Spotlight is just the (confusing imo) branding Wait, isn't Spotlight the name for Apple's local search (and maybe it's now used for whatever kind of unified search iOS likes to do?), whereas Safari's feature of treating things entered into the address bar that don't look like URLs as search queries is just a common redirection feature (analogous to the Firefox Awesomebar/Omnibar/whatever it's called now) that has nothing in particular to do with Spotlight?
  - JadeNB 8y ago
    Doesn't your screenshot show that these Safari Suggestions are powered by Google?
- _ph_ 8y ago
  There are other big search engines beyond Google. And currently Google pays Apple quite a bit of money to stay the main search engine on Safari. But I would be very suprised, if Apple had not a team working on search algorithms, so they could start a search engine of their own, if the need is there.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- scarface74 8y ago
  Apple wouldn't do search to go head on with Google. Apple's search would be very specific to the domains that it cares about businesses for Maps, music, movies, etc.
  - john_minsk 8y ago
    And yet, any search on Apple devices is super weak
    - scarface74 8y ago
      Siri search works well enough within the domains that it does directly -- restaurants (integrated with Yelp), locations, movies, movies, tv shows, sports, etc. Anything it can't do directly it punts to Bing.
- s3r3nity 8y ago
  Search in general is _hard._ But vertical specific searches & use cases can be tackled by different apps. I would argue that my pushing for more prolific relationships with developers, you sort of chip away at this competitive threat with more specific, vertical-oriented searching experiences. Example: I'm searching for restaurants nearby, I _could_ open Google, or I could leverage the Yelp/OpenTables of the app store. Same thing for travel - flights, hotels, etc. all have apps that could, in theory, better serve the user than the catch-all "Google Search" app. Maps is a slightly different beast; it's almost as ubiquitous as the "Phone" app itself .

ajross 8y ago

> After the Schmidt/Android thing I think the Apple leadership basically assumed Google would screw them over sooner or later if they could. That's a level of moralizing that isn't really appropriate for analyzing decisions like this. It's equally true, and for essentially the same reasons, that Android as a whole exists because the Google leadership basically assumed Apple would screw them over sooner or later if they could. Businesses compete, basically. It's a good thing and the efficiencies that result make us all wealthier. It's only "screwing someone over" in the myopic eyes of the internet fan boi.

redial 8y ago
> t's equally true, and for essentially the same reasons, that Android as a whole exists because the Google leadership basically assumed Apple would screw them over sooner or later if they could. That is the whole reason. Same with Chrome.

r00fus 8y ago

> Apple leadership basically assumed Google would screw them over sooner or later if they could. This should be the default assumption for any relationship - doubly so when corporations or big $$ is involved. That's why we have legal paperwork even for inter-family agreements - your Mom & Pop may love you now but in 20y when dementia sets it, that may be out the window (or Mom dies, Pop remarries and Step-Mom hates your guts, etc etc).