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What about Nissan? The Leaf seems to be doing well even though it gets ignored in these conversations.

brightball 8y ago
It's because the range has always been so low that it wasn't a practical option except as a 2nd car. It does look like they had a big jump in range this year to get it up to 151 miles, so it's improving.
compton_effect 8y ago
The issue with the leaf is the battery is not thermally managed at all. So you get a lot of battery degradation over years. After 5 years of ownership you can see a huge decrease in capacity compared to a climate controlled battery.
cptskippy 8y ago
Leaf owner here... The Leaf is mostly ignored because unlike the Model 3 and Bolt, it is a compromise due to it's limited range and it is not a true replacement for an ICE car. For normal usage it's fine but exceptions like mid-day doctor appointments or spontaneous errands after work are sometimes impossible. The first generation Leafs had a 24kWh battery with an EPA MPGe range rating of 84 miles. The second generation 2018 model has a 40kWh battery with an EPA MPGe rage rating of 151 miles. The first generation base models of the Tesla Model 3 and Chevy Bolt have EPA MPGe ranges of 220 and 238 miles respectively. That might not seem like a big deal and an 84 mile range should be fine for most people most of the time. The problem is that the 84 mile range is not entirely accurate. My Leaf typically reports my range as 90+ miles and my 25 mile commute can use anywhere from 28-42 miles of that reported range. So if I drive to work and back without charging in between then my remaining range is 8-34 miles. That's ok unless I get home from work and my kid needs to go to the music store 5 miles away to buy a replacement reed for their oboe. Additionally Nissan recommends not charging above 80% or letting the battery fall below 20% to increase the longevity of the battery as over/under charging can degrade the Lithium Ion Cells. So basically they're telling you not to charge your car past 80% and to stop driving when you hit 20% which means they recommend you only ever use 60% of your battery (50 miles). In comparison, Chevy and Tesla both have built-in buffer capacity in their batteries that's unavailable to you. This buffer prevents you from over/under charging your battery. Because of this buffer you're able to utilize the full advertised range of the vehicles without fear of battery degradation.
mikestew 8y ago
The Leaf is for those that don't want to spend the extra money on a Bolt or Model 3, and don't need the extra range. The new model Leaf is a fine car, with a little extra range over the original, while being less expensive than its competition. We've got a first-generation Leaf, and have been completely satisfied with it as a commuter/second car. Personally, if we need more range than what we've got, then we really need some range, and even a Model 3 won't cut it. So for us it's fine. That said, were it time to replace the Leaf, today I'd a Bolt (and I own shares of TSLA, no GM). Good enough range, and say what one will about GM quality, they can at least build a car without huge body panel gaps.

It's because the range has always been so low that it wasn't a practical option except as a 2nd car. It does look like they had a big jump in range this year to get it up to 151 miles, so it's improving.

compton_effect 8y ago

The issue with the leaf is the battery is not thermally managed at all. So you get a lot of battery degradation over years. After 5 years of ownership you can see a huge decrease in capacity compared to a climate controlled battery.

cptskippy 8y ago

Leaf owner here... The Leaf is mostly ignored because unlike the Model 3 and Bolt, it is a compromise due to it's limited range and it is not a true replacement for an ICE car. For normal usage it's fine but exceptions like mid-day doctor appointments or spontaneous errands after work are sometimes impossible. The first generation Leafs had a 24kWh battery with an EPA MPGe range rating of 84 miles. The second generation 2018 model has a 40kWh battery with an EPA MPGe rage rating of 151 miles. The first generation base models of the Tesla Model 3 and Chevy Bolt have EPA MPGe ranges of 220 and 238 miles respectively. That might not seem like a big deal and an 84 mile range should be fine for most people most of the time. The problem is that the 84 mile range is not entirely accurate. My Leaf typically reports my range as 90+ miles and my 25 mile commute can use anywhere from 28-42 miles of that reported range. So if I drive to work and back without charging in between then my remaining range is 8-34 miles. That's ok unless I get home from work and my kid needs to go to the music store 5 miles away to buy a replacement reed for their oboe. Additionally Nissan recommends not charging above 80% or letting the battery fall below 20% to increase the longevity of the battery as over/under charging can degrade the Lithium Ion Cells. So basically they're telling you not to charge your car past 80% and to stop driving when you hit 20% which means they recommend you only ever use 60% of your battery (50 miles). In comparison, Chevy and Tesla both have built-in buffer capacity in their batteries that's unavailable to you. This buffer prevents you from over/under charging your battery. Because of this buffer you're able to utilize the full advertised range of the vehicles without fear of battery degradation.

mikestew 8y ago

The Leaf is for those that don't want to spend the extra money on a Bolt or Model 3, and don't need the extra range. The new model Leaf is a fine car, with a little extra range over the original, while being less expensive than its competition. We've got a first-generation Leaf, and have been completely satisfied with it as a commuter/second car. Personally, if we need more range than what we've got, then we really need some range, and even a Model 3 won't cut it. So for us it's fine. That said, were it time to replace the Leaf, today I'd a Bolt (and I own shares of TSLA, no GM). Good enough range, and say what one will about GM quality, they can at least build a car without huge body panel gaps.