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For the same reason jobs are not created as much in Wyoming or Vermont so much as they are in LA or NYC ... the jobs are being created, it's just that they're i
by sonnyblarney 8y ago
For the same reason jobs are not created as much in Wyoming or Vermont so much as they are in LA or NYC ... the jobs are being created, it's just that they're in Germany and the UK and not Spain.
Part of the issue is that Spain & periphery tend to have fewer 'large industrial conglomerates' that enable profitable
things to be done at scale (i.e. making cars etc.). % people employed at companies with >1000 people is much bigger in Northern Europe - which makes it more difficult to compete in the periphery.
But really, this is what can be expected with a true Union in Europe, and it's why Germany is so keen on it, and of course the Lib Dem (i.e. business types) are super keen on it in the UK, despite populist upset over Brexit.
The short run advantages of common market and supposed common risk of the Euro (which never happened), the downside is that skilled people are flooding out of the mediocre areas into the competitive areas.
Portugal is turning into a nation-sized retirement home, sadly.
In an odd way, this might actually be a 'net good thing' economically, because Germany might be better at putting people to productive use in industry ... which is why the Lib Dem types like it (i.e. they see the economics) ... but really this speaks to an existential challenge to the very nature of European nations and peoples.
- phobosdeimos 8y agoNothing stopping Portugal from becoming successful. Germany isn't really as rich as people think though: lot of hidden poverty. My own country was in very dire straits after WW2 and it took a lot of work and clever scheming to get on top.
- sveme 8y agoGermany has massive geographical advantages compared to nearly every other country in Europe, especially compared to Portugal. East-west and north-south navigatable rivers, few mountains, very fertile soils, located in the center of Europe covering two seas... Italy has a similarly spiderwebby location, but a much more difficult topography.
- jxub 8y agoIf someone wants to learn more about this stuff, geopolitics, Tim Marshall has written a pretty neat book about the topic which was a quick, fun and mind-expanding read: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25135194-prisoners-of-geography https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25135194-prisoners-of-ge...
- raverbashing 8y agoYou're talking about a country that's pretty much half coastal area and has some rivers. Though Portugal is mountainous, it is not a huge impediment
- empath75 8y agoIf you want to lay Italy’s economic problems on geography you probably have to explain why it wasn’t a problem for the Roman Empire or Renaissance city states.
- sveme 8y agoHmm? No, that‘s definitely not what I said. Geography is one factor that can influence population density and interconnectedness, among other things, but these parameters have different effects in different times. Rivers are much less important today than in the middle ages. Geography is one historical factor in the multiparametric space shaping the wellbeing of a nation. Political culture is another one.
- yxhuvud 8y agoAnd those advantages matter not at all for successful IT ventures. Sweden does not have any of those advantages, and are still even way more successful than Germany (on a per capita basis).
- sveme 8y agoWhich is what I emphasise below. But it mattered when it came to the development of trade routes, knowledge centers, the industrial revolution and the emergence of large corporations.
- briandear 8y agoAnd the US Marshall Plan from which Portugal and Spain did not directly benefit.
- phobosdeimos 8y agoYes, the geopolitical situation with the Cold War helped Northern Europe. But don't underestimate the vast amounts of money the EU has invested in Spain and Portugal since the 1970s.
- repolfx 8y agoLots of money yes, but not that well invested. Scratch the surface of EU funding and you find a long procession of malinvestment and wasted opportunity. Airports being a famous case in point: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11296782/EU-wastes-airport-funding-worth-1bn.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/1129678...
- atticmanatee 8y agoPortugal did receive help from the Marshall Plan. Not much (70 million, only Iceland received less at 43 million), but it got it
- sveme 8y agoWell, Portugal and Spain were not really affected by the war. They were, however, affected by the isolationist dictatorships that they had to suffer under for another 30 years.
- mnl 8y agoLet me remind you of the Spanish Civil War of 1936-1939, and its hefty toll on Spain. Like all civil wars, it never really ended.
- sveme 8y agoPortugal seems to be very attractive to northern European tech and media freelancer types, know a couple of guys who live and enjoy Portugal and work for German companies remotely. Pretty attractive, would do it myself if it wasn‘t for the kids. Those guys are more likely to expand, build startups and employ people, who knows what it might lead to.
- intrasight 8y agoI too am excited by what's happening in Portugal. Safe place, good food, great weather, internet is improving. These things get noticed by mobile professionals. I'd not be surprised to find myself there next year.
- galfarragem 8y agoThanks for embellishing Portugal. As a local, I'm not as bullish as you. Portugal is nowadays a paradox: it has 2 contrarian political systems. One for locals (pro-socialist) and another (raw liberal) to attract foreign money. E.g: Foreign pensionists don't have to pay taxes, €500k 'investment' (buying an house is enough) will grant you citizenship, Websummit (and consequently raw capitalism) was seen as the Truth by government. All this done while rising taxes for local middle class (freelancer's taxes are a joke), advocating a rigid job market and other ideologic measures that promoted a brain drain like never before. Yes, Portugal is a great contry for hollydays and retirement, but, sadly, it stops there. However, if you afford to live as a semi-retired (like many remote devs) it might worth it: sun, sea, food and safety (on the places where you'll be at least).
- intrasight 8y agoI don't understand. If one becomes a citizen, doesn't one become a "local"?
- galfarragem 8y agoCitizenship buyers don't want to be a 'local', they just want full access to the EU. My point here is that Portugal literally sells EU passports without many (if any) questions.
- mprev 8y agoI’ve not seen the Lib Dems described as pro-business in that way before. In my experience they tend to be ideologically in favour of the EU as they support closer cooperation in pretty much all things.
- sonnyblarney 8y agoLib Dems are the most pro-business of all political parties. They are basically Europe's 'Libertarians' or 'Classical Liberals'. They are ideologically for 'freedom', but pragmatically they are the party of business. The EU is, at least on the books 'good for business'. Open borders, free trade, free movement of people and labour - it's all theoretically very good for business. Lib Dems tend to be leftish on the social front, i.e. things like gay marriage because it's mostly a freedom/personal issue. They tend to have an educated, business oriented backing, and are inherently globalist.
- cbcoutinho 8y agoIn the states we have a similar branch of the democratic party that is primarily pro-business and voted left on social issues - see Blue Dog democrats [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dog_Coalition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dog_Coalition
- sonnyblarney 8y agoYes but they're not necessarily libertarian or classically liberal. It's a different spectrum. They could be somewhat 'Communitarian' - like Christian types who tend left on social issues. Blue Dog dems do me are like Angela Merkel and Germany CDU. There's no specific analogy for Lib Dems in the US really, though you could say a good chunk of the educated professional class might fit this.
- lemoncucumber 8y agoI think perhaps before the massive realignment of the parties that started in the 60s, the Republican Party was somewhat akin to the liberal democrats. Back then it was the northern, pro-business, more socially liberal party. But then the Democrats supported civil rights and Nixon, Goldwater, Reagan, and co pursued the Southern strategy, and the Republican Party became socially conservative while remaining pro-business.
- adventured 8y ago> For the same reason jobs are not created as much in Wyoming or Vermont so much as they are in LA or NYC Vermont has a 2.8% unemployment rate and a $50,000 GDP per capita. Comparable to Sweden and the Netherlands. Wyoming has a 3.8% unemployment rate and a $65,000 GDP per capita, nearly 50% higher than Germany, and almost comparable to Norway. Los Angeles has a 4% unemployment rate. NYC has a 4.2% unemployment rate.
- munk-a 8y agoBeing from(ish) vermont, there are lots of companies in diverse fields and there are a number of jobs available, the only issue is that the market is rather illiquid and slow to respond to sudden shifts. If you want to grow a company at a reasonable (not silicon valley reasonable) speed it's a great area to find employees with low cost-of-living overhead and a pretty high median skill rate. The issue is more that if your company does really well and needs to hire 200 people to keep up with demand then you're going to be waiting a long time for people to filter into the market. This also sadly relates to the skill chafe that happens with new graduates from universities every year, a bunch of people are competing for moderately few open positions in the spring/summer, then companies have trouble hiring if they need people in the fall/winter. But hey, VT is pretty sweet, so thanks for standing up for us!
- sonnyblarney 8y agoVermont and Wyoming are highly functional stasis economies. They are not growing leaps and bounds and don't have vast concentrations of power and industry. But yes, they are not good examples. As you point out - Vermont and Wyoming are more like Scandiavian countries - small, well managed, not growing. I don't know what a Spain analogy would be in the US? Maybe a Souther State like Mississipi? i.e. very traditional, not hugely functional, talent leaves, but they're stable enough ...
- yxhuvud 8y agoHow is the Scandinavian countries not growing? Sweden for example, has doubled it's GDP during the last 25 years.
- refurb 8y agoIdaho’s GDP growth in Q4’17 was almost as high as California’s. Not sure I agree most jobs are in LA/NYC. https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/regional/gdp_state/qgdpstate_newsrelease.htm https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/regional/gdp_state/qgdpstat...
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- scarejunba 8y agoIdaho’s GDP is two orders of magnitude below California’s. The fact that they’re growing at roughly the same percentage is an indication that they aren’t that hot.
- refurb 8y agoRelative growth. It's not quite fair to say Idaho isn't growing on an absolute basis. By that same measure, Singapore could grow by 20% and it would be "nothing" compared to 2% in the US.