9 ms·

New Photon Release of Eclipse IDE Ships with Full Rust Support

79 points by conductor 8y ago

ebiester 8y ago
How is eclipse in 2018? For many years, I loathed working in it, but it might have improved in the intervening years. I've paid for intellij for a long time, but I remember daily crashes and 5 minute boot times for the springsource flavor (needed to work with grails.)
- mindcrime 8y ago
  The Oxygen release works quite well for me. Sure, it could be a little faster to startup, but I don't know many IDE's I wouldn't say that about. Functionality wise though, I don't think it's ever outright crashed on me, and all the features I need are there (or have plugins). Call me old-fashioned if you will, but I still prefer Eclipse to any other IDE. That said, I stick to "vanilla" Eclipse plus a handful of hand selected plugins. I try to avoid vendor-built versions like STS, anything branded "WebSphere", etc. Note that if you use the latest version of Grails, you no longer really need a dedicated Grails plugin for Eclipse. Use the Groovy plugin, Gradle plugin, and the standard HTML editor and you get pretty much everything except for perfect highlighting, and code completion, in GSP files.
- foobarrio 8y ago
  Plain-jane Eclipse works better for me than IDEA for my hobby Java coding. On my late 2015 Mac, Eclipse much snappier and the font-rendering is better. IDAE takes 3+ mins to launch. Eclipse takes 20s on a cold launch. To be fair I am not using any plugins and not doing any JEE stuff. I just can't get IDEA to respond to clicks in less than 10s. There's obviously something wrong with my setup.
  - geoelectric 8y ago
    I have that problem in IDEA if I enable 1) IDEAvim, 2) ligatures, and 3) relative line numbers. That may be idiosyncratic but if you happen to match, there you go. Either turn off relative line numbers (absolute are fine) or ligatures.
    - foobarrio 8y ago
      I'll give that a try. Thanks.
      - geoelectric 8y ago
        Sure thing. Going from relative to absolute took my startup time down from holy crap to a couple of seconds and eliminated a bunch of pause/stutter after code changes, especially with large files. Started right when I moved to Fira Code, and took me forever to find the footnote in a random GH issue (think in the IdeaVIM repo, but might have been the Nerd Fonts repo) that mentioned the behavior.
- 13years 8y ago
  Lack of a great command palette was a big one. It is how I do everything in vscode. However, after being frustrated for long enough, it motivated me to make my own that is more of modern command palette for Eclipse. https://github.com/dakaraphi/eclipse-plugin-commander https://github.com/dakaraphi/eclipse-plugin-commander
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Using InteliJ due to Kotlin and Android made me enjoy using Eclipse again, specially on middle specs laptops.
- zmmmmm 8y ago
  It's great to be honest. You have to just suck it up and learn is complexities and give the thing 2g of ram, but in return you get such a comprehensive and customisable at of features - every language in one IDE, incremental compile, etc.
mindcrime 8y ago
Awesome. Can't wait to give this a try. I haven't done much with Rust yet (just "Hello, World" basically), but I'm an Eclipse user, so this will be handy. Having solid Rust support in my favored IDE will reduce the friction to using Rust a little bit at least.
acangiano 8y ago
And if you are looking to get into Rust, The Rust Programming Language by No Starch Press is just out: https://nostarch.com/Rust https://nostarch.com/Rust
- pure-struggle 8y ago
  I think the same guys published it here for free: https://github.com/rust-lang/book/tree/master/2018-edition/src https://github.com/rust-lang/book/tree/master/2018-edition/s...
  - steveklabnik 8y ago
    Yes; it’s rendered here: https://doc.rust-lang.org/stable/book/second-edition/ https://doc.rust-lang.org/stable/book/second-edition/ The contents may be the same, but the physical book is way nicer, IMHO. I happen to love physical books, though... and the PDF is much nicer than our current “click print to PDF” solution.
thekingofh 8y ago
After using Eclipse for C++ (CDT) off and on for a while now. I've come to the conclusion that when set up properly there's no better C++ tagging system (F3 Open Declaration) and auto-complete in any IDE except perhaps Visual Studio. It works so well that people like myself who dislike Java still use it on C++ projects out of the sheer advantage it gives you when browsing through a code base. I don't know what they've been up to there on the CDT project, but they sure have managed to get it right.
- mavelikara 8y ago
  Do you dislike programing in Java, or using programs written in Java?
  - thekingofh 8y ago
    Generally Java has a large footprint on the machine and startup time can be slower (however they're attempting to solve through the Graal VM). Also Java's syntax is extremely verbose and the API usage is verbose as well. All common complaints coming from a C++ programmer. When comparing programs for daily use, native applications tend to feel snappier, though there's no reason a Java program can't feel that way if properly written. I like Java for the comfy warm embrace that a business language provides, but C++ wins out in the world of 'get out of my way and let me get stuff done'.
    - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
      C++ wins out in the world of “get out of my way and let me shoot my feet off”. The only professional language hated more than Java is C++.
      - thekingofh 8y ago
        You're not wrong. This is a Rust post after all. I'm of the opinion that C++ by itself is both unfinished and bloated at the same time. Most memory access should be funneled through libraries better equipped to handle memory than our feeble minds, and when we really need the performance, we know when to break out of the cage and get things working. Most of the problems I've encountered in C++ is interpreting the crazy stuff other developers have done, because alas C++ has allowed it! Funny enough, the object oriented nature of the language has been the biggest thorn in my side. You'll get no shortage of complaints by me of how C++ is designed. Somehow I manage to forgive a lot due to the incredible performance of the code a C++ compiler generates.
g051051 8y ago
Excellent! Sounds like some great improvements on top of an already amazing tool. I have to say that they've really come back from some serious missteps a few years ago.
necubi 8y ago
Haven't tried Rust with Eclipse, but the IntelliJ rust plugin [0] is already quite good and getting better on a weekly basis. Most things work in community (free) IntelliJ, and with CLion you also get pretty a pretty solid debugger UI. [0] https://intellij-rust.github.io/ https://intellij-rust.github.io/
- mdasen 8y ago
  I like the JetBrains IDEs, but the Rust support will likely become a paid feature in the future. Go support was free while it was being developed, but the Go plugin is now only for the Ultimate Edition.
  - andrewflnr 8y ago
    It's MIT licensed. It's not clear to me that it's developed by jetbrains at all, but if it is, there will probably always be an open source version, if only because it gets forked.
    - ggrochow 8y ago
      I believe there is some ‘official’ support for that plugin, I vaguely remember reading that JetBrains was devoting a small amount of resources to aid in its development. Though I can’t imagine it would effect the license
      - Argorak 8y ago
        The author of the plugin works at JetBrains and works on it on his day job.
  - asdsa5325 8y ago
    The Go plugin wasn't open source, right?
  - Argorak 8y ago
    The plugin already has paid features in the sense that the debugging support only works in CLion. That seems like a likely future path to me.
Boulth 8y ago
Rust? The big news here is support for the Language Server Protocol! Now, finally the UI of IDE would be decoupled from the language service.
anthonybullard 8y ago
Is this is using LSP, and therefore RLS, I hope it doesn't suffer from the constant silent aborts I get using the Rust plugin on VSCode. Everything is nice and fluid with Auto complete, error and warning tagging, and definition-on-hover, and then BAM it just stops with nothing to explain when, how, or why. Restarting RLS does nothing, and closing and reopening the workspace might work but there is no guarantee. How's it working here and in IntelliJ(which I've been using for Scala and Dart for sometime, but feels heavy)?
- steveklabnik 8y ago
  There have certainly been some serious stability bugs lately, but we’re also working on fixing them. Please file bugs!
  - anthonybullard 8y ago
    Thanks for all of your work! I realized how gripe-y this sounded coming back and reading it now. I also would like to mention, that I updated this evening and found it to be much more stable, even if sometimes it hiccups for a minute or two. I think actually turning off VSCode's word-based auto-complete for Rust files will help, as I won't get false positives.
- mswift42 8y ago
  AFAIK the IntelliJ Rust plugin does not use the RLS, but uses an in-house solution. Completion works very well, Error reporting however is good but painfully slow.
  - steveklabnik 8y ago
    It does not use the RLS, that’s correct.
guessmyname 8y ago
EDIT: Found it under the "New and Newsworthy" button [6]. The lack of feature list and screenshots in the "new" Eclipse Photon page is astonishing [1]. Compare that with the landing page for Xcode [2], SublimeText [3], Visual Studio Code [4] and/or Atom [5]. They need a better marketing team if they want to appeal to the young programmers looking for a real IDE. [1] https://www.eclipse.org/photon/ https://www.eclipse.org/photon/ [2] https://developer.apple.com/xcode/ https://developer.apple.com/xcode/ [3] https://www.sublimetext.com https://www.sublimetext.com [4] https://code.visualstudio.com https://code.visualstudio.com [5] https://atom.io https://atom.io [6] https://www.eclipse.org/photon/noteworthy/index.php https://www.eclipse.org/photon/noteworthy/index.php
cmurphycode 8y ago
Well, not a great start - the console is throwing Java exceptions, and when I ask for a code completion, it just spins for a while and eventually fails. I'll continue to poke at this, I think. For me, the competition is Sublime Text with a bunch of Rust plugins. It took a while to set up and it's not super snappy, but it works decently. I would like to replace this setup with something more "out of the box" and better integrated. For anyone interested in rust IDE, maybe check out https://areweideyet.com/ https://areweideyet.com/

79 points by conductor 8y ago

How is eclipse in 2018? For many years, I loathed working in it, but it might have improved in the intervening years. I've paid for intellij for a long time, but I remember daily crashes and 5 minute boot times for the springsource flavor (needed to work with grails.)

mindcrime 8y ago
The Oxygen release works quite well for me. Sure, it could be a little faster to startup, but I don't know many IDE's I wouldn't say that about. Functionality wise though, I don't think it's ever outright crashed on me, and all the features I need are there (or have plugins). Call me old-fashioned if you will, but I still prefer Eclipse to any other IDE. That said, I stick to "vanilla" Eclipse plus a handful of hand selected plugins. I try to avoid vendor-built versions like STS, anything branded "WebSphere", etc. Note that if you use the latest version of Grails, you no longer really need a dedicated Grails plugin for Eclipse. Use the Groovy plugin, Gradle plugin, and the standard HTML editor and you get pretty much everything except for perfect highlighting, and code completion, in GSP files.
foobarrio 8y ago
Plain-jane Eclipse works better for me than IDEA for my hobby Java coding. On my late 2015 Mac, Eclipse much snappier and the font-rendering is better. IDAE takes 3+ mins to launch. Eclipse takes 20s on a cold launch. To be fair I am not using any plugins and not doing any JEE stuff. I just can't get IDEA to respond to clicks in less than 10s. There's obviously something wrong with my setup.
- geoelectric 8y ago
  I have that problem in IDEA if I enable 1) IDEAvim, 2) ligatures, and 3) relative line numbers. That may be idiosyncratic but if you happen to match, there you go. Either turn off relative line numbers (absolute are fine) or ligatures.
  - foobarrio 8y ago
    I'll give that a try. Thanks.
    - geoelectric 8y ago
      Sure thing. Going from relative to absolute took my startup time down from holy crap to a couple of seconds and eliminated a bunch of pause/stutter after code changes, especially with large files. Started right when I moved to Fira Code, and took me forever to find the footnote in a random GH issue (think in the IdeaVIM repo, but might have been the Nerd Fonts repo) that mentioned the behavior.
13years 8y ago
Lack of a great command palette was a big one. It is how I do everything in vscode. However, after being frustrated for long enough, it motivated me to make my own that is more of modern command palette for Eclipse. https://github.com/dakaraphi/eclipse-plugin-commander https://github.com/dakaraphi/eclipse-plugin-commander
pjmlp 8y ago
Using InteliJ due to Kotlin and Android made me enjoy using Eclipse again, specially on middle specs laptops.
zmmmmm 8y ago
It's great to be honest. You have to just suck it up and learn is complexities and give the thing 2g of ram, but in return you get such a comprehensive and customisable at of features - every language in one IDE, incremental compile, etc.

mindcrime 8y ago

Awesome. Can't wait to give this a try. I haven't done much with Rust yet (just "Hello, World" basically), but I'm an Eclipse user, so this will be handy. Having solid Rust support in my favored IDE will reduce the friction to using Rust a little bit at least.

acangiano 8y ago

And if you are looking to get into Rust, The Rust Programming Language by No Starch Press is just out: https://nostarch.com/Rust https://nostarch.com/Rust

pure-struggle 8y ago
I think the same guys published it here for free: https://github.com/rust-lang/book/tree/master/2018-edition/src https://github.com/rust-lang/book/tree/master/2018-edition/s...
- steveklabnik 8y ago
  Yes; it’s rendered here: https://doc.rust-lang.org/stable/book/second-edition/ https://doc.rust-lang.org/stable/book/second-edition/ The contents may be the same, but the physical book is way nicer, IMHO. I happen to love physical books, though... and the PDF is much nicer than our current “click print to PDF” solution.

thekingofh 8y ago

After using Eclipse for C++ (CDT) off and on for a while now. I've come to the conclusion that when set up properly there's no better C++ tagging system (F3 Open Declaration) and auto-complete in any IDE except perhaps Visual Studio. It works so well that people like myself who dislike Java still use it on C++ projects out of the sheer advantage it gives you when browsing through a code base. I don't know what they've been up to there on the CDT project, but they sure have managed to get it right.

mavelikara 8y ago
Do you dislike programing in Java, or using programs written in Java?
- thekingofh 8y ago
  Generally Java has a large footprint on the machine and startup time can be slower (however they're attempting to solve through the Graal VM). Also Java's syntax is extremely verbose and the API usage is verbose as well. All common complaints coming from a C++ programmer. When comparing programs for daily use, native applications tend to feel snappier, though there's no reason a Java program can't feel that way if properly written. I like Java for the comfy warm embrace that a business language provides, but C++ wins out in the world of 'get out of my way and let me get stuff done'.
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    C++ wins out in the world of “get out of my way and let me shoot my feet off”. The only professional language hated more than Java is C++.
    - thekingofh 8y ago
      You're not wrong. This is a Rust post after all. I'm of the opinion that C++ by itself is both unfinished and bloated at the same time. Most memory access should be funneled through libraries better equipped to handle memory than our feeble minds, and when we really need the performance, we know when to break out of the cage and get things working. Most of the problems I've encountered in C++ is interpreting the crazy stuff other developers have done, because alas C++ has allowed it! Funny enough, the object oriented nature of the language has been the biggest thorn in my side. You'll get no shortage of complaints by me of how C++ is designed. Somehow I manage to forgive a lot due to the incredible performance of the code a C++ compiler generates.

g051051 8y ago

Excellent! Sounds like some great improvements on top of an already amazing tool. I have to say that they've really come back from some serious missteps a few years ago.

necubi 8y ago

Haven't tried Rust with Eclipse, but the IntelliJ rust plugin [0] is already quite good and getting better on a weekly basis. Most things work in community (free) IntelliJ, and with CLion you also get pretty a pretty solid debugger UI. [0] https://intellij-rust.github.io/ https://intellij-rust.github.io/

mdasen 8y ago
I like the JetBrains IDEs, but the Rust support will likely become a paid feature in the future. Go support was free while it was being developed, but the Go plugin is now only for the Ultimate Edition.
- andrewflnr 8y ago
  It's MIT licensed. It's not clear to me that it's developed by jetbrains at all, but if it is, there will probably always be an open source version, if only because it gets forked.
  - ggrochow 8y ago
    I believe there is some ‘official’ support for that plugin, I vaguely remember reading that JetBrains was devoting a small amount of resources to aid in its development. Though I can’t imagine it would effect the license
    - Argorak 8y ago
      The author of the plugin works at JetBrains and works on it on his day job.
- asdsa5325 8y ago
  The Go plugin wasn't open source, right?
- Argorak 8y ago
  The plugin already has paid features in the sense that the debugging support only works in CLion. That seems like a likely future path to me.

Boulth 8y ago

Rust? The big news here is support for the Language Server Protocol! Now, finally the UI of IDE would be decoupled from the language service.

anthonybullard 8y ago

Is this is using LSP, and therefore RLS, I hope it doesn't suffer from the constant silent aborts I get using the Rust plugin on VSCode. Everything is nice and fluid with Auto complete, error and warning tagging, and definition-on-hover, and then BAM it just stops with nothing to explain when, how, or why. Restarting RLS does nothing, and closing and reopening the workspace might work but there is no guarantee. How's it working here and in IntelliJ(which I've been using for Scala and Dart for sometime, but feels heavy)?

steveklabnik 8y ago
There have certainly been some serious stability bugs lately, but we’re also working on fixing them. Please file bugs!
- anthonybullard 8y ago
  Thanks for all of your work! I realized how gripe-y this sounded coming back and reading it now. I also would like to mention, that I updated this evening and found it to be much more stable, even if sometimes it hiccups for a minute or two. I think actually turning off VSCode's word-based auto-complete for Rust files will help, as I won't get false positives.
mswift42 8y ago
AFAIK the IntelliJ Rust plugin does not use the RLS, but uses an in-house solution. Completion works very well, Error reporting however is good but painfully slow.
- steveklabnik 8y ago
  It does not use the RLS, that’s correct.

guessmyname 8y ago

EDIT: Found it under the "New and Newsworthy" button [6]. The lack of feature list and screenshots in the "new" Eclipse Photon page is astonishing [1]. Compare that with the landing page for Xcode [2], SublimeText [3], Visual Studio Code [4] and/or Atom [5]. They need a better marketing team if they want to appeal to the young programmers looking for a real IDE. [1] https://www.eclipse.org/photon/ https://www.eclipse.org/photon/ [2] https://developer.apple.com/xcode/ https://developer.apple.com/xcode/ [3] https://www.sublimetext.com https://www.sublimetext.com [4] https://code.visualstudio.com https://code.visualstudio.com [5] https://atom.io https://atom.io [6] https://www.eclipse.org/photon/noteworthy/index.php https://www.eclipse.org/photon/noteworthy/index.php

cmurphycode 8y ago

Well, not a great start - the console is throwing Java exceptions, and when I ask for a code completion, it just spins for a while and eventually fails. I'll continue to poke at this, I think. For me, the competition is Sublime Text with a bunch of Rust plugins. It took a while to set up and it's not super snappy, but it works decently. I would like to replace this setup with something more "out of the box" and better integrated. For anyone interested in rust IDE, maybe check out https://areweideyet.com/ https://areweideyet.com/