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This is interesting because Amazon isn't exactly known for supply chain integrity. Who here hasn't received fakes from Amazon? If you rely on a specific medicat
by tombrossman 8y ago
This is interesting because Amazon isn't exactly known for supply chain integrity. Who here hasn't received fakes from Amazon? If you rely on a specific medication for your health, is Amazon a brand you trust to deliver it? How long until they start commingling pills and shipping random counterfeit/fake product to users?
Hope it never happens but if they do with pharmaceuticals what they did with everything else they sell, it's only a matter of time before users are physically harmed.
Let's be optimistic though, I hope this helps them finally get their shit together and control the rampant counterfeiting going on right under their nose.
- Texasian 8y agoMaybe this is related to Amazon's health venture? Both it and Pillpack are based in Boston after all.
- xkjkls 8y agoPossibly, CVS has a program which uses it's big discounts it gets on the drugs it sells in stores to sell them to employees for their health care needs: https://www.benefitnews.com/news/cvs-e-prescription-program-aims-to-help-employees-pay-less-for-medications https://www.benefitnews.com/news/cvs-e-prescription-program-...
- protonimitate 8y agoI understand the fear, but I don't think fake medicine is as big of an issue as fake market place items. PillPack already has an established distribution network and prescription delivery licensing in 50 states. I don't know for certain, but I would assume that fake prescription medicine is a much bigger risk and would threaten the operation more than, say, fake batteries.
- Aloha 8y agoIt's likely they'll integrate on the ecommerce side of things, not on the supply chain side anyhow - the economy of scale that amazon has for shipping will be beneficial.
- petra 8y agoPeople don't want to buy legal drugs from their UPS guy. EDIT: i'm from outside the US, and after reading all the complains about delivery people throwing packages etc, i thought people don't trust delivery guys enough for medicine. It appears i was wrong.
- pen2l 8y agoWhat exactly do you mean here? That you don't feel safe receiving your medicine being delivered last mile from some random UPS guy? If this is what you mean -- I get my medicine by mail order from CVS. I cannot imagine now having to go to CVS every single month I get my medicine.
- pkaye 8y agoI mail order my recurring prescription medicines from the hospital pharmacy all the time. No waiting in line and they give me a substantial discount.
- vkou 8y agoMy partner buys legal drugs from her pharmacy. Half the friggin time, there's some supply problem on the back-end, and she can't get her drugs in time. Anyone who could fix this problem will get her business in a heartbeat.
- reaperducer 8y agoDitto. I detest Walgreens because of its invasive marketing and spamming, but I use it because CVS in my area can't keep even basic meds in stock. I'll be among the first to switch to AmazonRx.
- thomaslangston 8y agoFor pills, I would expect they'll use USPS, not UPS. That's how I get my medicine. It comes in a shipping bag instead of a box or rigid envelope.
- mountainofdeath 8y ago
- xkjkls 8y agoYeah, the penalties for selling fake insulin are muuuuuuuuuuuccccccchhh greater for distributors than selling a fake Gucci belt. Also the number of companies with licenses to sell regulated substances is pretty small making it really easy to validate.
- lurker456 8y agoit absolutely is a huge issue, with fines that bite. Google had to settle for +500M after serving ads for fake medicines in the US. I wouldn't be surprised if the primary aim here was to get a bargaining chip for their negotiations for their health care JV (a much bigger market)
- monetus 8y agoIt doesn't have to be fake to cause harm, at least for epilepsy. The filler in the pills can vary by manufacturer.
- pbarnes_1 8y agoYup. Insurance companies like to pretend all generics are the same, but they are not. Getting them to pay for the brand because all of a sudden your pharmacy switches generic brands is almost impossible.
- aflessner 8y agoCan you explain what is different about certain generics?
- monetus 8y agoGenerics, all of them I'd intuit, seem to be manufactured with the same active ingredients but different 'filler' ingredients that are non-active. Abruptly changing that filler could very well send an epileptic into a static seizure.
- pbarnes_1 8y agoShitty generics are a big problem and the FDA doesn't really care. I reject specific manufacturers from my CVS and get trusted manufacturers all the time. Hard to do these days though. Teva is killing off a bunch of generics, Puerto Rico still a mess, weird shortages of common meds, etc. Sometimes I spend an entire day going around the city trying to find the specific generic which I'm used to. And then only get partial fills, etc.
- el_benhameen 8y agoMan, yeah. I’ve stopped buying anything food-related from Amazon, and I’m very hesitant to use it for anything that will come into contact with me or my family. If they integrate PillPack’s supply chain with their own, I would be extremely unlikely to even consider the service.
- djrogers 8y agoHave you actually received fake food from amazon?
- maimeowmeow 8y agoFood items can end up 2x+ times the price over a grocery store because there are hidden shipping costs. And many times the higher prices cause less people to purchase, so the item has a short experiation date. And Im concerned about knockoffs as well.
- xkjkls 8y agoKnockoffs of what food? Like selling not organic produce as organic?
- maimeowmeow 8y agoI used to hear about family members recieving fake ferroro rocher in America many years ago. But here is an recent example in china. https://www.confectionerynews.com/Article/2017/02/08/Fake-Ferrero-and-Mars-chocolate-seized-in-China https://www.confectionerynews.com/Article/2017/02/08/Fake-Fe... If there was any incentive to create and sell a knock off product, it is only increased when Amazon provides laxadasial environment.
- tigershark 8y agoIf anyone buys a “ferroro” rocher instead of a “ferrero” rocher I would say that he is asking for a fake...
- skybrian 8y agoJust as a data point, I don't believe I've gotten a fake from Amazon.
- chimeracoder 8y ago> Just as a data point, I don't believe I've gotten a fake from Amazon. You almost certainly have, though you may not be able to tell the difference if you don't actively look for it.
- Bartweiss 8y agoThis is one of the things that gets missed when people talk about Amazon and fakes. It's not just about the cost of keeping nonfunctional fakes out of the product stream, it's about the higher costs of legitimate products. Obviously, the USB drive stuffed in an SSD case is a fake. But that's not the only kind of fake going - printing "Seagate" on off-brand disks happens too, probably with much higher frequency. And cracking down on that would not just be harder, it would be a way bigger threat to Amazon's margins. Hopefully the PillPack supply chain stays separate or separately monitored, but this wouldn't surprise me either - most cheap online pharmacies are selling real medicine at lower margins, possibly with worse quality control.
- sah2ed 8y ago> You almost certainly have, though you may not be able to tell the difference if you don't actively look for it. The gp merely asked for anecdotal data, nothing rigorous. By disagreeing, you are indirectly implying that the commenter is somehow incapable of telling fakes from the real deal. How does anyone reliably tell fakes apart?
- bpicolo 8y agoIn my experience, it's been because the fake one breaks down in just a few days and I end up ordering a new one, after which point I notice the important differences between the two :(
- samatman 8y ago
- noname120 8y agoDoes this really apply to products sold by Amazon?
- krasin 8y agoyes, it does, sadly. See https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/20/13343682/fake-apple-chargers-amazon-lawsuit https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/20/13343682/fake-apple-char...
- x2f10 8y agoAbsolutely! Some time ago, Amazon began mixing their inventory with FBA (fulfilled by Amazon) inventory. I've purchased books and small electronics from Amazon (sold & shipped by Amazon) that turn out to be counterfeit.
- bduerst 8y agoYeah, I've bought counterfeit Amazon Basics batteries off of Amazon before :/
- xkjkls 8y agoThat sounds shocking to me. Did you notify Amazon about that?
- aslkdjaslkdj1 8y agoHow? Amazon doesn't allow 3rd parties to sell/list AmazonBasics batteries.
- themodelplumber 8y agoJust don't buy "VVViagara Including Free Ray Bann Sunglasses" and you should be safe from physical harm. They always get you with the trademark misspelling and bonus gift.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- ceejayoz 8y agoThere's absolutely zero chance prescription meds will go through the same "just send us stuff and we'll throw them in a big shared bucket" process regular items do.
- petra 8y agoAmazon was in negotiations with hospitals for doing their supply chain. That could be good branding.
- jonknee 8y agoThey have lots of different businesses and associated supply chains, they're not going to have random 3rd parties selling prescriptions on Amazon like they do for many verticals. There would be no reason to integrate prescriptions in with their warehouses, so I don't think one is going to change the other.
- petra 8y agoInteresting. Do they all ready have a supply chain close to the requirements needed in healthcare ? For what ?
- xkjkls 8y agoIt depends on what you mean by healthcare. There are many different supply chains in the industry and they are all regulated and managed slightly differently.
- jonknee 8y agoThey operate data centers for the CIA, I'm sure they can figure out how to get your pills from Pfizer to your front door. Regardless, they just bought a company that already figured this out. The hard part is the nationwide licensing, dealing with insurance and record keeping, not pick and pack.
- pen2l 8y ago> This is interesting because Amazon isn't exactly known for supply chain integrity. The supply chain integrity problems were allowed by Amazon because it benefited their bottom line. If they wanted it perfect, they could have made it perfect. Remember when the eclipse was happening and they actually did a pretty good job of removing all glasses which weren't safe? They know where integrity counts, and I think when it comes to pharmaceuticals they'll know how to play this game clean. As another user commented: Amazon didn't get this humongous by making silly mistakes like this.
- rablo 8y agoThat’s your opinion. I disagree. With the glasses they probably needed lots of filtering by hand. Costed them a lot of money. They were afraid of costly lawsuits. But they don’t have the capacity to do that with every product they sell.
- godzillabrennus 8y agoIf fake goggles had liability problems wait till they sell a fake medication. They’ll invest the resources to ensure that doesn’t happen. Amazon didn’t get big by being stupid.
- tomrod 8y agoInvest, or lobby for law changes to protect themselves. Your point stands.
- Retric 8y agoIt's 'easy' to track eack item by type and source. They chose not to.
- joezydeco 8y agoNo, Amazon totally had the ability to separate glasses from different suppliers and keep them apart in the warehouse. The bogus ones could then have been isolated and recalled, but this is not what happened.
- paulcole 8y agoAmazon only has a supply chain issue because they allow 3rd party sellers to provide inventory with essentially no oversight. I'm not sure anyone thinks Amazon will allow 3rd parties to sell prescription medications. Although if they want to let me cash in on my dead mother's extra chemo meds and pain pills, let me know where to sign up.
- joering2 8y agoYes but wasn't Holmes allowed to give people fake services for many years before it caught up with her? In no way I say it was fine, I'm just saying that Amazon will have time and opportunities to fix whatever counterfeits popup before hammer will go down on them. It may also be they won't allow 3rd party markets into healthcare, we just don't know yet all the details.
- willio58 8y agoIsn’t that part of the reason they’re buying a company that has developed strategies for this sort of thing?
- PeanutNore 8y agoThe integrity of the pharmaceutical supply chain is controlled by a specific federal law, Title II of the Drug Quality and Security Act of 2013, also known as the Drug Supply Chain Security Act. The potential liability they would be exposing themselves to if Amazon treated their drug supply chain the way they treat standard 'Fulfilled by Amazon' products would hopefully prevent something like that from ever happening.
- owenmarshall 8y agoThe FD&C act imposes strict liability on violations, and criminal prosecutions for mislabeling and adulterating drugs have extended to company officers that were completely unaware of the actions their subordinates had taken. Amazon isn't stupid: they know _exactly_ where they can play it fast and loose in order to maximize profit and where they must operate under strict regulation. This isn't the former.
- refurb 8y agoYes, and a part of that is track and trace (aka serialization). Each unit has a unique identifier and must be tracked from manufacturer to patient.[1] It’s a big infrastructure lift so it’s still being implemented. [1]https://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/DrugIntegrityandSupplyChainSecurity/DrugSupplyChainSecurityAct/ucm427033.htm https://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/DrugIntegrityandSupplyC...
- yalogin 8y agoHow would they get the fakes though? This is not a USB stick or a cable to get fakes from China. There are strict laws that control how they are obtained.
- tibbon 8y agoI think one issue there however is that nearly anyone can sell through Amazon. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that to be a pharmacy distributing via Amazon would require some level of licensure well beyond what it takes to sell XBox controllers.
- drb91 8y agoI don’t see any reason why Amazon would have difficulty here. There’s already regulation in place and generics are designed to be interchangeable—getting an off brand alternative would be a win to the consumer, so long as the choice is clear.
- ceejayoz 8y ago> There’s already regulation in place and generics are designed to be interchangeable—getting an off brand alternative would be a win to the consumer, so long as the choice is clear. They're not, though. As an example, my wife is allergic to a filler ingredient in one generic manufacturer's version of one of her medications.
- bedhead 8y agoJesus this is hyperbole...pure hyperbole.
- Fej 8y agoJust found out about PillPack, would have given them a shot but I don't feel that I can now.
- 3minus1 8y ago> the rampant counterfeiting going on right under their nose. This is news to me. Can you link an article about it?
- ascorbic 8y agoThere's no way they'll allow third-party sellers or co-mingled inventory, which are the source of the supply chain issues.
- victor106 8y agoGreat point. I work in the pharmacy space and most of the cost is meeting regulations. Other than for the most common medications there are regulations for most all drugs. Add to that the complexity of drug delivery (some medications need to be cold, have tight expiration dates etc.,) its very hard to push down the prices like they have done in other areas. I would love for Amazon to come in and transform this space. There are lot of improvements to be made but all the well established players know those improvements but unless the regulations catch up its hard to innovate. One thing Amazon might be able to do is to take a hit to their bottom line by essentially selling drugs at a loss and wait it out till they drive everyone out of the market and increase prices. But no one cares when the price of a book/toy increases by x%. Everyone cares when the price of a drug increases by the same amount. (https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/03/mylan-hit-with-racketeering-suit-over-big-price-hikes-of-epipen.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/03/mylan-hit-with-racketeering-...)
- jeherr 8y agoThis is a very ill-informed opinion. The supply chain is very strictly regulated for pharmaceutical medications. Do you really think that Amazon can get their stock medications from just anyone? Do you think there is no oversight on this kind of thing? The DEA doesn't fuck around. They take all of this stuff very seriously. Commingling medications? Really? In a pharmacy, medications are NEVER allowed to be commingled. If your medication is coming from two different manufacturers, or even the same manufacturer but the pills just look different, the pharmacy must put them in two different bottles to give to you. Stock bottle are not allowed to be mixed together. Ever heard of a recall on medications? That is exactly why. When a recall happens, they need tedious records of where every pill went. When a prescriptions for a schedule II drug is filled, the pharmacy technician has to count the number of pills being filled twice. Then the pharmacist has to count the number of pills, and then backcount the stock bottle to make sure everything is kosher and no pills are missing. I understand not everyone knows everything about the pharmaceutical industry, my wife is a pharmacist is the reason I know as much as I do, but to think that there is that little oversight on pharmaceuticals is ludicrous.
- vernie 8y agoThat kind of "innovation" is just what I've come to expect from Amazon.
- mschuster91 8y ago> When a prescriptions for a schedule II drug is filled, the pharmacy technician has to count the number of pills being filled twice. Then the pharmacist has to count the number of pills, and then backcount the stock bottle to make sure everything is kosher and no pills are missing. Good grace. What a load of unnecessary bureaucracy.
- unclebucknasty 8y agoI'd be more worried about the quality of generic formulations.