6 ms·

I'm happy to see this, although it's kind of disappointing that "perfect" products are ever retired in the first place in the constant drive for change, often s

by sho 8y ago

I'm happy to see this, although it's kind of disappointing that "perfect" products are ever retired in the first place in the constant drive for change, often simply for change's sake. I'm not against improvement, of course - the iPhone X is one of the most perfect products I've ever had the pleasure of owning - but at the same time the current Macbook Pro is the first model I've literally not wanted because of how bad the keyboard is. In chase of form they reduced function. I suppose it's hard for companies to recognise when they're at "peak function" and to just stop changing things but it's encouraging to see MS recognise that all of their "innovations" might have actually been making things worse, and just go back to the old design. Hope it's the start of a trend. MS mice used to be my hands down favourite.

JohnSully 8y ago
Most likely the plastic molds wore out and the decision came to either spend $100k per mold to restart production or sell a new product. Usually the right thing to do is to modernize the product at this point. It's not a choice between leaving things alone and change for change's sake.
- DocTomoe 8y ago
  It would be interesting to learn how long such a mold lasts.
  - dflock 8y ago
    https://www.google.ca/search?q=plastic+injection+mold+life+expectancy https://www.google.ca/search?q=plastic+injection+mold+life+e...
- naikrovek 8y ago
  Molds do not cost that much. The prices you hear quoted for injection molds is to get the molds developed -- the partially trial and error process to get them right. Once the molds are worked out, getting new ones made is simple and cheap.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
Pica_soO 8y ago
Most horrific atrocities born for this quest for continuous employment- "improved" android menus - like the Samsung S8 - which manage to squeeze a additional click into a perfected gesture and lay buttons like the delete picture button near the "back" button. I would rather write "was homeless" into my resume for those years as a UI/UX-Designer then admit i worked on that team.
rising-sky 8y ago
>hands down favourite I see what you did there
Zelphyr 8y ago
> I suppose it's hard for companies to recognise when they're at "peak function" and to just stop changing things This is so true and really becoming a problem in tech. Another good example is Google Maps. The browser version used to be great. And then they went and “improved” it and in the process actually made it harder to use, in my opinion.
- dorkwood 8y ago
  I agree. I’m still not used to the new Google Maps and it’s been, what, six years?
toyg 8y ago
> it's hard for companies to recognise when they're at "peak function" and to just stop changing things "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it", as Upton Sinclair famously wrote. Product managers (or rather product-people in general, including designers and so on) don't get bonuses for saying "the product is perfect as it is, we'll just keep paying a full team to fix bugs and do basic maintenance, forever".
- derefr 8y ago
  You'd think you could operate a company with just one shared product team that acts as an internal serial entrepreneur, setting up these self-sustaining operations and then moving on. Actually, isn't that basically how companies that produce one-off software work? Like game studios, for example. You've got a central pool of "design talent" that doesn't stay on past release, and then you've got "live teams" for each release.
J5892 8y ago
watare you taking about,thenew ma keboardis fin
Theodores 8y ago
IMHO there is plenty of scope for an 'improved' mouse. We get why there is a dongle (Logitech) as the speed and reliability over Bluetooth is not good for gaming and other performance uses, e.g. Photoshop. However not everyone wants one of their USB ports filled with a dongle so Bluetooth is useful, particularly if using the same mouse on more than one device. I think there is a market for a mouse that can be either wired or Bluetooth. You could charge it and use it as a normal mouse if plugged in. Or you could use it in Bluetooth mode if not plugged in. This would save on AA batteries plus it would mean you could still use it on a PC where you have just installed the OS and don't have the Bluetooth setup yet. Such a mouse could also work as a reasonable USB power brick for when your phone has no juice on the commute home. Add in a small bit of flash storage and such a mouse would be perfect for all kinds of clever things. Undoubtedly such a mouse would be niche but it could be the de-facto mouse for IT support people.
- tw04 8y ago
  Logitech already makes that, and while it's expensive, it's one of the best mice I've ever owned. You can use a Logitech dongle, or Bluetooth, or wired. And it can be paired with up to 3 systems. https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/mx-master-2s-flow https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/mx-master-2s-flow
  - wodenokoto 8y ago
    I cannot connect mine through wire. I can use it as a Bluetooth mouse, while charging from my USB port, but I can't use it as a USB mouse.
    - tw04 8y ago
      Alas, it appears you're right. I thought it worked plugged in too, that's a bit silly on their part. I can't imagine it would take a whole lot of effort for them to add the functionality.

by sho 8y ago

JohnSully 8y ago

Most likely the plastic molds wore out and the decision came to either spend $100k per mold to restart production or sell a new product. Usually the right thing to do is to modernize the product at this point. It's not a choice between leaving things alone and change for change's sake.

DocTomoe 8y ago
It would be interesting to learn how long such a mold lasts.
- dflock 8y ago
  https://www.google.ca/search?q=plastic+injection+mold+life+expectancy https://www.google.ca/search?q=plastic+injection+mold+life+e...
naikrovek 8y ago
Molds do not cost that much. The prices you hear quoted for injection molds is to get the molds developed -- the partially trial and error process to get them right. Once the molds are worked out, getting new ones made is simple and cheap.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

Pica_soO 8y ago

Most horrific atrocities born for this quest for continuous employment- "improved" android menus - like the Samsung S8 - which manage to squeeze a additional click into a perfected gesture and lay buttons like the delete picture button near the "back" button. I would rather write "was homeless" into my resume for those years as a UI/UX-Designer then admit i worked on that team.

rising-sky 8y ago

>hands down favourite I see what you did there

Zelphyr 8y ago

> I suppose it's hard for companies to recognise when they're at "peak function" and to just stop changing things This is so true and really becoming a problem in tech. Another good example is Google Maps. The browser version used to be great. And then they went and “improved” it and in the process actually made it harder to use, in my opinion.

dorkwood 8y ago
I agree. I’m still not used to the new Google Maps and it’s been, what, six years?

toyg 8y ago

> it's hard for companies to recognise when they're at "peak function" and to just stop changing things "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it", as Upton Sinclair famously wrote. Product managers (or rather product-people in general, including designers and so on) don't get bonuses for saying "the product is perfect as it is, we'll just keep paying a full team to fix bugs and do basic maintenance, forever".

derefr 8y ago
You'd think you could operate a company with just one shared product team that acts as an internal serial entrepreneur, setting up these self-sustaining operations and then moving on. Actually, isn't that basically how companies that produce one-off software work? Like game studios, for example. You've got a central pool of "design talent" that doesn't stay on past release, and then you've got "live teams" for each release.

J5892 8y ago

watare you taking about,thenew ma keboardis fin

Theodores 8y ago

IMHO there is plenty of scope for an 'improved' mouse. We get why there is a dongle (Logitech) as the speed and reliability over Bluetooth is not good for gaming and other performance uses, e.g. Photoshop. However not everyone wants one of their USB ports filled with a dongle so Bluetooth is useful, particularly if using the same mouse on more than one device. I think there is a market for a mouse that can be either wired or Bluetooth. You could charge it and use it as a normal mouse if plugged in. Or you could use it in Bluetooth mode if not plugged in. This would save on AA batteries plus it would mean you could still use it on a PC where you have just installed the OS and don't have the Bluetooth setup yet. Such a mouse could also work as a reasonable USB power brick for when your phone has no juice on the commute home. Add in a small bit of flash storage and such a mouse would be perfect for all kinds of clever things. Undoubtedly such a mouse would be niche but it could be the de-facto mouse for IT support people.

tw04 8y ago
Logitech already makes that, and while it's expensive, it's one of the best mice I've ever owned. You can use a Logitech dongle, or Bluetooth, or wired. And it can be paired with up to 3 systems. https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/mx-master-2s-flow https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/mx-master-2s-flow
- wodenokoto 8y ago
  I cannot connect mine through wire. I can use it as a Bluetooth mouse, while charging from my USB port, but I can't use it as a USB mouse.
  - tw04 8y ago
    Alas, it appears you're right. I thought it worked plugged in too, that's a bit silly on their part. I can't imagine it would take a whole lot of effort for them to add the functionality.