5 ms·

The Las Vegas "Death Ray"

53 points by cwan 16y ago

famousactress 16y ago
Bummer. When I first saw the graphic I assumed it was a really clever architectural trick designed to heat the pool efficiently... So yeah, let's do that.
- btilly 16y ago
  If you think the pool needs efficient heating during the day, I suspect you've never been in Vegas. Particularly not during summer.
Groxx 16y ago
Anyone know what these "strange pavilion-like stands topped with polished reflectors" they mention might be? I'm not finding anything via Googling, as that's pretty vague. edit: as to the main meat of the post, I'm amazed that this sort of thing isn't checked prior to building a gigantic mirror. To the degree of "can they get sued for this?". It strikes me as near-gross negligence on the part of the people who approved the design.
maeon3 16y ago
This just in, huge concave structure lined with reflective materials causes unexpected strange heating effect from the sun, says engineers. News at 11.
VladRussian 16y ago
remind me again - what is the purpose of huge (and powerful and expensive) building permit departments and long waits for a permit?
- JeffL 16y ago
  I'm pretty sure it's so we can feel like we're protecting the children.
- patrickgzill 16y ago
  A P.E. must have signed off on this; maybe he should be disciplined?
  - VladRussian 16y ago
    Freud's dream of any engineer : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Garin_Death_Ray http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Garin_Death_Ray
  - brudgers 16y ago
    The architect of record is ultimately responsible for the building configuration (someone in Rafael Vinloy's office). Since there appears to be nothing negligent or illegal, it is unlikely that there will be any sort of disciplinary charge. There might be some sort of claim by the owner. These are typically first handled by mediation and binding arbitration if necessary. It's just a mistake.
- imgabe 16y ago
  Building codes are reactionary, not proactive. Almost every code is there because at some point there was a problem in the past, usually something involving one or more deaths due to a fire or collapse that could have been prevented. Someone's drink cup melting is not really a concern for the permit authorities.
  - VladRussian 16y ago
    yep. Death due to non low-flush toilets installed.
    - noonespecial 16y ago
      If you don't think that how buildings use water isn't going to be ridiculously important in the next hundred years of human expansion, you've got some reading to do. Lives might actually be at stake. Livelihoods almost certainly will.
      - VladRussian 16y ago
        how can one be that brainwashed. Doesn't it seem strange to you that instead of real pricing on water and energy (that would trigger efficiency improve across the board) there is that hysterical propaganda of individual conservation despite the fact that individual consumption pales in comparison to Big Agriculture&Industry? I just hear the sound of your brain being flip-flopped by the propaganda : paper to plastic -> saving trees plastic to paper -> saving the planet and as a result your attention being diverted from the real causes of the problem. "Lives might actually be at stake. Livelihoods almost certainly will." You're absolutely right. WW III, if it happens, will be about global enforcing of cap&trade once the countries most severely affected by the global warming (incl. its consequences like harsh weather and water shortage) organize together and amass enough military power. Low-flush and biking to work, while feeding your ego with warm and fuzzy feeling that you're personally saving the planet, don't mean anything at that scale.
      - Dylan16807 16y ago
        Desalination costs well under a penny per gallon. There's no shortage of water if you're willing to pay a small fee.
hugh3 16y ago
However, the question here would be: could you deliberately design an architecture without walls, using only thermal gradients—defining areas of public use and congregation solely based on heat? I'm pretty sure there's something called "night"
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
cyunker 16y ago
The Disney Concert Hall in LA had similar problems. "Some residents of the neighboring condominiums suffered glare caused by sunlight that was reflected off these surfaces and concentrated in a manner similar to a parabolic mirror. The resulting heat made some rooms of nearby condominiums unbearably warm, caused the air-conditioning costs of these residents to skyrocket and created hot spots on adjacent sidewalks of as much as 60 °C (140 °F). After complaints from neighboring buildings and residents, the owners asked Gehry Partners to come up with a solution. Their response was a computer analysis of the building's surfaces identifying the offending panels. In 2005 these were dulled by lightly sanding the panels to eliminate unwanted glare." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_Concert_Hall http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_Concert_Hall
dylanz 16y ago
I was standing outside the Portland Convention Center this year at OSCON and noticed the wood bark around one of the trees was smoking profusely. Needless to say, the glass awnings had the death ray effect as well.
Hoff 16y ago
Low-E window glass is reportedly triggering problems. Press reports include melted house siding resulting from reflections. http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/24342726/detail.html http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/24342726/detail.html
huhtenberg 16y ago
The office tower I used to work in had similar problem. There were two mirror-glass walls that met at 90 degree angle facing each other and the resulting sun reflection heated up the asphalt at the ground level to the point when it deformed into a wave pattern with about 1' wave length and 1/4' amplitude. Admittedly it led to few very cool "AHA" moments when new employees (on a smoke break) realized what was going on :)
- VladRussian 16y ago
  "wave pattern with about 1' wave length and 1/4' amplitude." Any idea why this length/amplitude?
zb 16y ago
For all those here complaining that they could have done better: "Designers foresaw the issue, and thought they had solved it by installing a high-tech film on the south-facing glass panes, according to Gordon Absher, the MGM spokesman. The film scatters more than 70 percent of reflected rays. But that's not enough, Absher acknowledged, as some pool guests are still uncomfortable."

53 points by cwan 16y ago

Bummer. When I first saw the graphic I assumed it was a really clever architectural trick designed to heat the pool efficiently... So yeah, let's do that.

btilly 16y ago
If you think the pool needs efficient heating during the day, I suspect you've never been in Vegas. Particularly not during summer.

Groxx 16y ago

Anyone know what these "strange pavilion-like stands topped with polished reflectors" they mention might be? I'm not finding anything via Googling, as that's pretty vague. edit: as to the main meat of the post, I'm amazed that this sort of thing isn't checked prior to building a gigantic mirror. To the degree of "can they get sued for this?". It strikes me as near-gross negligence on the part of the people who approved the design.

maeon3 16y ago

This just in, huge concave structure lined with reflective materials causes unexpected strange heating effect from the sun, says engineers. News at 11.

VladRussian 16y ago

remind me again - what is the purpose of huge (and powerful and expensive) building permit departments and long waits for a permit?

JeffL 16y ago
I'm pretty sure it's so we can feel like we're protecting the children.
patrickgzill 16y ago
A P.E. must have signed off on this; maybe he should be disciplined?
- VladRussian 16y ago
  Freud's dream of any engineer : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Garin_Death_Ray http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Garin_Death_Ray
- brudgers 16y ago
  The architect of record is ultimately responsible for the building configuration (someone in Rafael Vinloy's office). Since there appears to be nothing negligent or illegal, it is unlikely that there will be any sort of disciplinary charge. There might be some sort of claim by the owner. These are typically first handled by mediation and binding arbitration if necessary. It's just a mistake.
imgabe 16y ago
Building codes are reactionary, not proactive. Almost every code is there because at some point there was a problem in the past, usually something involving one or more deaths due to a fire or collapse that could have been prevented. Someone's drink cup melting is not really a concern for the permit authorities.
- VladRussian 16y ago
  yep. Death due to non low-flush toilets installed.
  - noonespecial 16y ago
    If you don't think that how buildings use water isn't going to be ridiculously important in the next hundred years of human expansion, you've got some reading to do. Lives might actually be at stake. Livelihoods almost certainly will.
    - VladRussian 16y ago
      how can one be that brainwashed. Doesn't it seem strange to you that instead of real pricing on water and energy (that would trigger efficiency improve across the board) there is that hysterical propaganda of individual conservation despite the fact that individual consumption pales in comparison to Big Agriculture&Industry? I just hear the sound of your brain being flip-flopped by the propaganda : paper to plastic -> saving trees plastic to paper -> saving the planet and as a result your attention being diverted from the real causes of the problem. "Lives might actually be at stake. Livelihoods almost certainly will." You're absolutely right. WW III, if it happens, will be about global enforcing of cap&trade once the countries most severely affected by the global warming (incl. its consequences like harsh weather and water shortage) organize together and amass enough military power. Low-flush and biking to work, while feeding your ego with warm and fuzzy feeling that you're personally saving the planet, don't mean anything at that scale.
    - Dylan16807 16y ago
      Desalination costs well under a penny per gallon. There's no shortage of water if you're willing to pay a small fee.

hugh3 16y ago

However, the question here would be: could you deliberately design an architecture without walls, using only thermal gradients—defining areas of public use and congregation solely based on heat? I'm pretty sure there's something called "night"

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

cyunker 16y ago

The Disney Concert Hall in LA had similar problems. "Some residents of the neighboring condominiums suffered glare caused by sunlight that was reflected off these surfaces and concentrated in a manner similar to a parabolic mirror. The resulting heat made some rooms of nearby condominiums unbearably warm, caused the air-conditioning costs of these residents to skyrocket and created hot spots on adjacent sidewalks of as much as 60 °C (140 °F). After complaints from neighboring buildings and residents, the owners asked Gehry Partners to come up with a solution. Their response was a computer analysis of the building's surfaces identifying the offending panels. In 2005 these were dulled by lightly sanding the panels to eliminate unwanted glare." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_Concert_Hall http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_Concert_Hall

dylanz 16y ago

I was standing outside the Portland Convention Center this year at OSCON and noticed the wood bark around one of the trees was smoking profusely. Needless to say, the glass awnings had the death ray effect as well.

Hoff 16y ago

Low-E window glass is reportedly triggering problems. Press reports include melted house siding resulting from reflections. http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/24342726/detail.html http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/24342726/detail.html

huhtenberg 16y ago

The office tower I used to work in had similar problem. There were two mirror-glass walls that met at 90 degree angle facing each other and the resulting sun reflection heated up the asphalt at the ground level to the point when it deformed into a wave pattern with about 1' wave length and 1/4' amplitude. Admittedly it led to few very cool "AHA" moments when new employees (on a smoke break) realized what was going on :)

VladRussian 16y ago
"wave pattern with about 1' wave length and 1/4' amplitude." Any idea why this length/amplitude?

zb 16y ago

For all those here complaining that they could have done better: "Designers foresaw the issue, and thought they had solved it by installing a high-tech film on the south-facing glass panes, according to Gordon Absher, the MGM spokesman. The film scatters more than 70 percent of reflected rays. But that's not enough, Absher acknowledged, as some pool guests are still uncomfortable."